Mini Normal 1829 - Game Over

[Nero Cain]

I'm also going to agree with Elyse that not outting your doc target is kinda awful. Like, if you were a town doc (and you obviously didn't block a kill) scum already know the alignments of everyone her (barring Traitor or SK) so I don't really see a reason you shouldn't.

[Blitzkrieg]

I'm also going to agree with Elyse that not outting your doc target is kinda awful. Like, if you were a town doc

(and you obviously didn't block a kill)

scum already know the alignments of everyone her (barring Traitor or SK) so I don't really see a reason you shouldn't.

I actually think I did. Of course, I cannot prove that without having a vig step forward.

[Blitzkrieg]

I think IaI was a big shot.

[Blitzkrieg]

but blackmail!

You know, it has to be redmail. It is my favorite color.

[Nero Cain]

What makes you think we have a vig and why do you think you think that you blocked the scum kill and not the vigs kill?

[Blitzkrieg]

What makes you think we have a vig and why do you think you think that you blocked the scum kill and not the vigs kill?

It resolves interactions without anyone being dumb as IAI does not make sense as a scum kill.

[Nero Cain]

IAI doesn't make sense as a vig kill either.

[Thor665]

I wasn't talking about whoever you were voting – you seem to believe that Nero should find Shadow's claim more suspicious than Blitz's when I believe the opposite is true.

I am asking him why he made the value call he did - I am not actually applying an opinion of my own to the question.
I will note I'm having an issue getting an answer to the question.
Why you are giving *ME* heat over that I'll never know.

Blitz is in fact a Titus alt. If that makes you less inclined to hammer, then I think Karnos is a perfectly fine alternative.

Then move to Karnos?

["Case" of Giga

I note that your reasons for IaI dying included "unlynchable - that, in and of itself provides any scum a solid reason to kill IaI no matter who scum is, unless scum is IaI.
I also would note, that if I go to your case and replace Blitz's name with Gerry, or Thor, or Karnos, et al - it doesn't actually change the validity of the case.
Do you disagree with the above?
If so - could you replace the name with Karnos and explain how the case doesn't work?
If not - why are you acting like you have a case?

So why mention it? Simple. I wanted to see if I could figure out what the players on the wagon were seeing. In that context, it's important to note that she doesn't have many interactions that I can base my opinion on. It's also important to note that the interactions that are there are understandable from my point of view. Both of which I do in my post.

Do you think you have a good number of interactions?

giga is scum, nero is scum, shadow *might* be scum getting bused.
[snip]
There also seems to be some absurd push to lynch when we still have nearly 4 days left to work with.

I find both of these comments silly.

The fact that Blitz hasn't said who she protected yet makes me confident that she's scum.

I know for a fact that Titus (wrongly) believes hiding Doc targets is appropriate Doc play.
Does that change your read on the slot?

IAI doesn't make sense as a vig kill either.

Agreed.

@Titus - I've seen you play as a PR before wherein you didn't try to fly under the radar - why should I believe that was your gameplan now?

[Thor665]

@Nero - you still haven't explained why, when you started on Shadow, that you settled on Blitz after claims.
Neither claim particularly screams as a town claim to me, bot are very acceptable scum claims - so why pick the one you did?

[JarJarDrinks]

what scumteam with me in it kills IaI?

This is a scummy argument.

First off, this is totally wifom. You could have made the kill specifically to make urself look less scummy. And you're bringing it up because nobody else did and you want the cred for it.

Second, IAI flipped PR. Scum may have been PR hunting.

[JarJarDrinks]

I'm the doctor. GG town we lost.

I don't really feel like this is a town reaction.

agree

[JarJarDrinks]

And lets just ignore the scum motivation in wanting a player dead that they can't kill at night.

Unless I'm misunderstanding the role, he can be killed, just cant be targeted by PRs.

[JarJarDrinks]

JarJar, do you still townread Gerry? Let's talk a bit more about that read.

It's hard for me not to townread everyone that isn't shadow/blitz/karnos when them 3 as a scumteam makes so much sense.

Other than that and what I posted about his "fakeclaim" reading town, I have no other reason to townread him and if I'm proved wrong about any of my scumreads, I'll reevaluate. But there's no chance I vote outside of those 3 today.

[JarJarDrinks]

Did you miss the part were he retracted his claim after being threatened with blacklisting? Why would scumtranscend who's using this gambit to his win condition be afraid of that

Well the answer to that is pretty clear: He was afraid that his scum partner was gonna get lynched and he knew that retracting the mason claim would likely get maria lynched (which it did).

The people likely to get lynched at that time were YOU or Elyse. So if giga is scum then then one of U 2 are likely his scumbuddy.

This theory has been in the back of my mind in case I'm completely off on my shadow/blitz/karnos scumteam theory. But not worth pursuing until I see some reason to think my stronger reads are wrong.

[JarJarDrinks]

So check this out.

I'm also going to agree with Elyse that not outting your doc target is kinda awful. Like, if you were a town doc

(and you obviously didn't block a kill)

scum already know the alignments of everyone her (barring Traitor or SK) so I don't really see a reason you shouldn't.

I actually think I did. Of course, I cannot prove that without having a vig step forward.

I think IaI was a big shot.

(obvious typo. he meant "vig")

IAI does not make sense as a scum kill.

So he tells us that believes that he blocked the scums attack and IAI was a vig shot.


Yet moments earlier he says:

Why should I? Outing who I protected just gives scum information about who I protect.

It's customary if that info helps town. Here, it doesn't. I don't care what it seems like. If town doesn't learn to play smart, we don't deserve to win.

He doesn't want to tell us who he protected because he doesn't want to give scum that information.


So maybe he can explain why scum doesn't know who they shot at?

[chilledtea]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT 2.07

Blitzkrieg (L-1) : kraska77, JarJarDrinks, gigabyteTroubadour, Nero Cain, Elyse.

gigabyteTroubadour (L-3) : Blitzkrieg, gerryoat, MichelSableheart.

JarJarDrinks (L-5) : Shadow_step.

karnos (L-5) : Thor665.

Nero Cain (L-5) : karnos.

Not Voting (0) : No one.

Day will end in (expired on 2016-09-23 00:00:00)

[JarJarDrinks]

I like how blitz doesn't show up until after the shadow wagon dissolves so he doesn't have to give his opinion on it.

Reposting because blitz STILL hasn't given us a single opinion about what he thinks of shadow.

[JarJarDrinks]

Which is pretty weird since you would think that he'd doubt a PR claim since he believes the town already has a tracker, a doc, and a vig.

[Shadow_step]

@Thor

Spoiler:

Unvote: MariaR
Vote: Elyse

The Kraska wagon is fine.
The IAI wagon is comical.
The Geryoat wagon is okay, but I don't think anyone has actually thought through the bad play to translate it into pro-scum play, and when they do they'll see it's a pretty empty agon at this stage.

I still don't think I did anything to warrant a sr on me

How many scum do you think voted you?
Yeah - you did stuff to get scumread.
You even admitted that you weren't doing towny things on purpose because it would be CHEAP - so what are you even talking about?

We're not lynching Gerry unless you can explain why what he did is scummy in any way at all.
In other news - vote for Elyse.

Thor, what are you talking about the vote on no one?

I am assuring the game that a vote on no one will never be a vote on scum.

Do you think we can swing Maria? I don't want to Unvote one scum to chase another.

Maria is very obviously a lynch option for the day.

At the moment it is a Maria v. Gerry situation, which is super exciting to me.

B: My townflip will probably point to the fact that town is looking in the wrong direction, which I think it is. I am completely serious when I say that I want people to just put Maria and Kraska on ignore D2 and focus on the slots that haven't received much pressure. Kraska is really obvious town and I know I'm going to be the only one who sees that. Maria could absolutely be scum, but she's still a distraction I think, especially when there are lurkers who I can't even read (I think Karnos might be the town one, that's really all I got). More slots need sorting and pressure, not enough work was done D1 because Transcend was an idiot. Starting D2 off with another RVS/AVS actually is not that far-fetched of an idea, that's how badly information starved I think this town is.

Your argument for you being distracting is equally applicable to Maria.
Your campaign here is either scummy or terrible town play - so stop it either way please and thank you.
I don't need a second Maria in the game.

I think he's a lurksack and I glared at him from the computer when he white knighted Thor. I think white knighting is p scummy and depending on how the game goes I may be up for lynching that.

What would be the gain of the white knight though?
Either I was being replaced - in which case no town pocket, or Trans was being replaced - which would weaken the scum vibe he was pushing on him, and also I was on record not supporting that lynch.

can you explain your read progression on gerry here? In your first two posts you say that you are not interested in lynching Gerry at all and you also defend him, and then in the third post(bolded part) you say that the Maria v gerry situation is exciting for you. It implies that you were scum reading him at that point or am I reading that wrong?

[JarJarDrinks]

@Shadow, any thoughts on what I posted about blitz?

Do you think that him saying that he doesn't want to reveal his target because it would help scum makes any sense if he believes that he blocked scums attack?

[Blitzkrieg]

@All - Shadow is a counter wagon to Gigs scum. Therefore, Shadow's town.

@Thor/JarJar - It isn't wrong. Scum know who they shot but not even they know if they were not hit by a roleblocker or something. This is likely role madness but for a VT. That's not Giga though.

[Shadow_step]

I thought shadow was scummy yesterday, but the speed of this wagon and the presence of scummy individuals on it makes me think he is

probably town.

giga is scum, nero is scum,

shadow *might* be scum getting bused.

There seems to be some weird idea that scum wouldn't dare bus, when it's absolutely a viable play in this game.

There also seems to be some absurd push to lynch when we still have nearly 4 days left to work with. I don't have a lot of time most weekends, and I was doing an application for an apartment over this weekend so I have been even busier than usual. I'll probably catch up tomorrow, but whether I do or not the town players on the wagon should slot the hell down instead of rushing to a lynch with little thought.

What changed?

[Shadow_step]

Do you think that him saying that he doesn't want to reveal his target because it would help scum makes any sense if he believes that he blocked scums attack?

Yeah, if he thinks that he prevented a mafia kill, the person they protected is conf town.
I don't see how town benefits from revealing who that person is as of now.

[JarJarDrinks]

Blitz, u said that info wont help town. Well if u really are a doc that truly believes he blocked scums attack and are about to get lynched, u don't think that information would be hugely beneficial?

Like ud be giving us practically confirmed town.

[JarJarDrinks]

Do you think that him saying that he doesn't want to reveal his target because it would help scum makes any sense if he believes that he blocked scums attack?

Yeah, if he thinks that he prevented a mafia kill, the person they protected is conf town.
I don't see how town benefits from revealing who that person is as of now.

Uhh, He's at L-1. he could get hammered @ any moment.