Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[Transcend]

my (genuine) anger in lylo has gotten me mislynched countless times due to it appearing scummy so take advantage of that.

i have no idea why i'm giving you winning tips anymore but after yesterday i just don't care anymore. i thought i would but i really genuinely honestly do not.

[mhsmith0]

I mean, I'm not trying to tick you off, but if I have I apologize for it. Trying to make gigas decision easy. REALLY want my MS town record to go back to .500 and start up a new winning streak.

[mhsmith0]

my (genuine) anger in lylo has gotten me mislynched countless times due to it appearing scummy so take advantage of that.

i have no idea why i'm giving you winning tips anymore but after yesterday i just don't care anymore. i thought i would but i really genuinely honestly do not.

Nah it's cool. Like, here your anger doesn't look angry, and your WIM was high early this game day and faded once I wasn't going to vote giga and giga started to lean to vote you. It really sucks to fight through the game state to reach LYLO and then lose it at the very end, and I don't think you really deserve to lose given your effort here.

[Transcend]

Apreesh.

Think I'm done with this game for the night before I go off on a tangent. Go to sleep Giga.

[mhsmith0]

Night trans. Hope next time we can villa together, would probably be fun.

[Transcend]

same here

and i'm still gonna be awake just don't wanna feud in this thread anymore tonight

[tojam2]

I'm assuming based on this current page that no-one has voted yet, thank God because I've been Ctrl+Fing the hell out of theses last 10 pages for votes.

[mhsmith0]

Trans and I voted each other, waiting on giga hammer.

[Transcend]

popping in to say hi and that my participation levels will be tanked due to going back to work today.

im still town giga.

[mhsmith0]

I'll be back some time tonight. Giga, if you have any questions, ask. Otherwise I'll probably mainly dig a bit more into my own ISO and the stuff kc said.

[mhsmith0]

Some additional notes

On KC
First reads
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8125182
Thinking its karnos/kts, pushes on both, keeps pushing on both. His "I need to see vc first before voting karnos" bit is weird, sure, but I don't see it as anything other than being lazy about following who's voting who, which is basically NAI. It's also a ridiculous tack to take in terms of justifying not voting a partner; all you need is someone to say who's voting who and suddenly the excuse for not voting karnos is gone.
It's also notable that he's not just scum reading kts, he's actively asking questions about him and looking for feedback, see
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8126651
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8127015
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8127018
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8127766
That's not a strategic push to distract the town from karnos, that's a tunnel on a wolfy looking player, while actively engaging others on the read. I'll agree it was obnoxious at times, but that's the worst the can be said about it.
Also notable: active town read of Thor, which is an odd line to take as a buddy given karnos efforts to discredit Thor
Also see io on KC, http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8128000, as well as her Sheeping kcs push on PC
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8128035
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8128035
Reinforcing the idea that his final post, being against PC, was also valid (though wrong)


On Luna
Transcend attacks her early for "buddying" in a case that she justifiably calls ridiculous. She then pushes him for thoughts on karnos-io and he basically gives a non answer and then changes the topic again to attack Thor, see
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8120814
And
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8121440
And the stuff in between. That's a clear pro-wolf action given karnos's red flip, changing the conversation repeatedly, and looking for whatever to attack, that, if successful, would have taken the pressure off of karnos.

Compare that to my push on her, based partially on meta and partially on what looked like active lurking on her end, which she herself admitted was valid though incorrect
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8154705
Also compare how I re-read, and move karnos up the suspect list while still suspecting Luna but moving her a bit off the top of my suspect list, see http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p8156550
And then eventually moved her up as her postings improved, see http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8165836

Day 2

These posts in succession

if roping kts ends the game i will admit to being the third mafia this game and put in my sig "luna fox is a scumhunting goddess"

where in the world did the PC wagon come from? that's super left field to me and his lynch probably yields the mafia.

i assume that's PC

leaning towards final scum being luna fox, rosske, or giga now. giga's been happy to lynch anyone honestly and it's alarming.

Are just bizarre from a town perspective. He's stating opposition to two major wagons (kts and PC), but at the same time not actually doing anything meaningful to oppose them. That's where the disconnect comes in; a villagery attitude to take would be to actively oppose them, to argue hard why they're both town, and be aggressive in forcing the conversation his way. Instead he's subtly oking either villager wagon while being off of both. That's a non obvious, but still clear pro-wolf, way of handling the situation.

Also look at when kts was near a majority. He posts
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p8197147
Which is a stated opposition, but at the same time isn't any kind of town read, or take down of the kts case that would ever be capable of convincing anyone. Instead of saying WHY the case is bad he just says it's bad. It's a way of logging opposition without actually derailing the wagon . Ditto
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8197206
Which is a lazy summary of the case against kts, and again isn't really designed to convince anyone, it's just there to show he's against kts lynch without actually stopping it.

Similarly,
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8203218
Is him walking away from actually debating the point with Thor. Instead of actually working to convince Thor the case is bad, he just states opposition, while not actually doing anything that would actually derail the wagon.


Compare that to what I was doing around the time of the "town block" discussion.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8185896
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8186018
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8186478
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3#p8186483
Not politicking to be on a town block, not bitching about not being on a town block, and not sucking up to people, instead actively working to figure out who should be cleared for valid reasons. If I'm a wolf this drastically cuts down my mislynch options, while if I'm town this helps prevent future mislynches and focuses the conversation on more plausible wolves.

Also look at
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8186484
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8189382
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p8190108
Which was actively creating content and trying to game solve in a different direction than the board had been going.

And
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p8206982
Which was a response to transcends invalid attack on me, which he didn't get around to responding to, despite being around and posting soon after (and which obviously I should have pushed on)

[mhsmith0]

Anyway that's what I got from re-reading. I do think this is a pretty easy call, but if you have doubts or questions ask away.

[Transcend]

Basically I don't have anything else to say.

This is not blatant imo I think smith is doing a good job at towning it up.

So unless you have any questions Giga, I'm just gonna prodge and troll this thread.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

intent to vote transcend

i need to review everything (i've been busy yesterday and i will continue to be for the next few days) but i don't see much that will change my view

i'll formally announce a v/la once i get a better idea of my schedule. apologies.

[tojam2]

Sorry!

VC 6-1

Transcend L-1 - mhsmith0
mhsmith0 L-1 - Transcend

Countdown: Until gigabyteTroubadour is ready.

[mhsmith0]

Let me know if you have any final questions. I'm less available mid day so depending on when you post there may be a delay in response.

[Transcend]

God damn dude you need to learn to trust yourself

You're on your way to the biggest L of the century and it's all because you evaded your former town reads.

Like sincerely i don't know what to say. You bombed the f*** out of this game since d2 onwards.

[mhsmith0]

God damn dude you need to learn to trust yourself

You're on your way to the biggest L of the century and it's all because you evaded your former town reads.

Like sincerely i don't know what to say. You bombed the f*** out of this game since d2 onwards.

^ manipulative, appeal to fear/embarrassment, does not actually address the substantive case against him. If you had any doubt remaining that should basically end it

[Transcend]

I have work

I can't fight any case on me.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

Countdown: Until gigabyteTroubadour is ready.

hey there's no deadline

i can stall all i want

if transcend intends to respond to the substantive case against him then i will let him.

the work i have done on my own is reading that Stack the Deck game (forgot the number) and that Newbie game (forgot the number too). Seems pretty clear that this is either a very good facsimile of mhsmith's town game or, he is likely town. transcend is a much tougher player to meta, this really seems like it could be any game of his.

[mhsmith0]

In the context of trans meta see

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8342206

His wolf game isn't wildly different from his town game, but he's still playing his wolf game, most notably on day one.

[Transcend]

Look I'll respond on Friday. Looks like you're going vla anyways. I promise. I'm town.

[Transcend]

And just tell me which bits and pieces you want me to respond to because to me the whole thing is bull hunky and I'm not responding to the entire thing. So tell me which parts give you doubts about ya boi.

[Transcend]

But work takes precedence over mafia. Granted i have been late a few times due to this game.

[Transcend]

Okay Giga my G I know that one of the things that has you worried is my tone. You think that it's fake. I'll have you know that as town my tone flips like a dime. One minute I will be happy because things are going my way. One minute I will be upset because things are not going my way. Depending on my mood though sometimes I can just be neutral. I typically tend to not explode when someone gets lynched that isn't me. When I get lynched I explode. I think the only time I ridiculously made my explosion super verbal was when karnos got lynched. I don't know why I exploded but most likely due to having a bad day. My tone in mafia is very much reflected by how I feel in real life. Now I can tell you with great certainty I was incredibly displeased when you lynch Tenshii and even more displeased when you didn't hammer and then MHSmith was scum the whole time and he was ONE FUCKING VOTE AWAY FROM DYING and we were ONE FUCKING VOTE AWAY FROM WINNING. I just wanna point out some examples of me being pissed off but not showing it super hard when my TR gets lynched. I will be honest though, there are very few times where my TR gets lynched and karnos and Tenshii were probably the two lynches I've been most mad about on this site. Anyways.

Diffusion of Power, 647: D2 one of my tr's gets lynched, I'm town. My reaction:

Spoiler: Me

About why you think Dunn is Town now...

simply put, being too scummy to be scum

and partially because i sorta believe his theory about anen+dixc!scum

VOTE: Dunnstral

uh was that a self hammer

n2 doc on me plz.

Okay so yeah this is me being fairly neutral that one of my hardest townreads had been getting lynched I spent the whole day defending Dunnstral, supporting Dunnstral, trying to get Dunnstral's scumread lynched etc.

Newbie 1730 to the north: D2

leaning a bit towards the soula/hark/penguin slot

like i don't see joushi karnos or stove as scum at all

enefpe is a pr, he's probably going to get subbed out and we'll have more helpful inofrmation.

Fucking idiots.

Take your ml enjoy lylo etc.

VOTE: Karnos

And yes karnos was obvious town but i hammered him to shut you guys up.

This is me literally hammering one of my townreads (truth be told it was because he punked me two games in a row). Not having much of a reaction. Then calling him obvious town when he flipped even though I flipped him. So that discredits mhsmith's theory of me calling everyone "obvious town".

I really hope you read this Giga because I normally don't meta myself but I WANT YOU TO WIN THIS GAME AND I DO NOT WANT YOU TO DOUBT YOURSELF. I really, really, don't.