Open 646 - Semi Nightless - Game Over (D6)

[Transcend]

I fucked up the spoilers lol sorry.

[Transcend]

F*** it bombed to a new page.

Giga, please read 3049 when you get a chance.

[Transcend]

I honestly feel like that's the backbone of Smith's case. Is that my tone was faked and my reactions were faked and they weren't consistent to the reads I've had to the whole game. I have fought against that.

He still has yet to prove how every single vote he's made has not been tactical. He was never the first lynch on any wagon. He was super non-committal all game and waffly but in the scummy way. His lynches were tactical. For a guy with a lot of words to say and a lot of games that he "meta-dived" he NEVER had a solid fos and just acquiesced to the lynch that was him that had the most momentum. Literally. He was on every lynch. Every single fucking lynch. He was not the first vote. He never made a super strong case on any lynch he was on.

Also one final point I will bring up. And this is from the bottom of my heart but I'm gonna bring back Person A and Person B that I discussed with Thor. Do you really think I'd be person B as scum and deliberately defend my partner when he was basically toast given the momentum of the wagon? If you think I would, keep in mind that I would have that negative attribute attached to me for a really fucking long time given all the mislynches there were. Mhsmith's vote wasn't as heavy as you think. It was the softest vote, it was on the wagon with the most momentum, karnos and him didn't really interact much. That's a textbook bus right there. It's worked well for him though because voting him has earned him insane towncred from lots of bodies. The rest of his game compared to his N1 is fucking awful. Again, non-committal reads, and lynching the person with the most momentum, every. single. time.

[Transcend]

I'd also like to point out that I map out every scum game I play. I can quote examples of my two completed scum games where I said I was mapping out the game. And I make sure my map wins me the game. If I were scum this map would be suicide. If my map was to include defending the s*** out of karnos when his goose was cooked, that's not a very good map. Both my maps both times were very good, however in my multi ball game my map lost me the game due to an incorrect meta scumread.

[Transcend]

I'm not losing this fucking game and I will not let you lynch me. You will be lynching mhsmith.

[Transcend]

Also I am one to bus my partners. In Mini 1796, on Day 3, there were so many mislynch options but I hard pushed on Tommy to gain towncred. It won me the fucking game. I bussed Bacde over getting lynchbait Lowell lynched. It won me the game.

Giga I am begging you to not spaghetti this hammer.

[Transcend]

This is single handedly the hardest I've tried in a mafia game, and there's no way in hell I'm letting you mishammer after all my efforts. Especially because you beefed the hammer yesterday and would've won had you listened to ya boi.

[Transcend]

Again I don't want you to think I will hate you post game if you mishammer Giga. I value our friendship it means a lot to me. I wouldn't trade it for the world. I will have you know I will be genuinely upset if you waffle YET AGAIN to your demise. You waffled on KTS and lynched him...... mislynched. You waffled on PC and lynched him............ mislynched. You waffled on Tenshii and lynched him........ mislynched. You're about to waffle on me and mislynch me. Shouldn't 3 times of waffling and mislynching be a lesson to you? You got scum lynched d1. I spaghetti'd d1. You're obviously a very good player Giga with very good early reads. Your participation and effort recently declined due to other factors. I can say with great certainty that your townread on me was on point. You really need to trust yourself from what your initial thoughts were. Like I will not stop tantalizing you post game if you lynch me and that was the fourth time you waffled and fucked up.

[Transcend]

I am appealing straight to your heart here Giga.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

hi

still busy but acknowledging i'm not hammering

[mhsmith0]

I'm relatively busy today will respond at lunch or tonight

[tojam2]

Countdown: (expired on 2016-09-30 15:30:00)

[mhsmith0]

Some responses to transcend's recent points:

1) His point about the anger issue is wrong in a couple of ways. First, the fact remains that he declared he was furious without actually being furious in his posts. As he notes, he was openly angry when karnos was lynched, but not openly angry when tenshii was lynched.
Second, consider his counter-examples.
In the first, he claims that his treatment of Dunnstral in open 647 is comparable to his treatment of tenshii here, but that's nonsensical. Even looking at his 1406/1407 THAT HE HIMSELF CITED, that's a really meh defense of Dunn in terms of emotional investment, energy, etc (and if you dig deeper into his ISO, it was only a few RL days before Dunn's lynch that he was calling Dunn obv!scum). Compare that to his "I put in three hours of work just to find a bunch of quotes I already made" bit on Tenshii this game, and there's no reason to think that town!trans would have been nearly as invested in a Dunn town read than town!trans would have been in a Tenshii town read here.
And then consider Dunn's lynch. With multiple scum remaining, Dunn self-hammered (edit: he actually just self L-1'd, though I'm guessing that wasn't immediately obvious at the time). You know who self-hammers there? Scum. So a normal townie reaction would be to think "oh crap I guess I was wrong", or at the very least to have doubt. So why would Trans be furious at the town for lynching a town read (which he himself hadn't been super sure of - it seems more like he just had stronger scum reads, at least at a quick glance) in that situation? It'd just be a really strange reaction to have. Also look at 1535, where he basically tells karnos it's OK to hammer Dunn for real. So basically, there's nothing in there which suggests that Trans SHOULD have been furious at the town, and yet he's telling you that this is a comparable situation where "see, I wasn't yelling at people there either" therefore means that you shouldn't expect town!trans to be furious at the town here.
And again, lest you forget, HE CLAIMED HE WAS FURIOUS. Even though his actual posts didn't back that claim up.
As far as the second goes, it's one where he openly hammered his stated town read. I could dig into that if you want, but I'm not sure how useful it'd be.

2) He claims he's a serial busser, but even the game he cites was a mid-game bus. A D1 bus is a very risky play, because you have to duck a bunch of lynches, and if you're too much of a town read then you potentially have to justify being alive. It's far easier to get a mislynch or two in, and then bus later on if/as needed.
wrt "defending karnos when his goose was cooked", sure that's not good scum play. But his early D1 stuff, constantly changing the conversation, being totally disinterested in the substance of the case against karnos, that's where you see the scum intent. And then given that he'd already done all of that, representing a stubborn process of sticking to his read of karnos as town is perfectly defensible scum play, since a rapid change of opinion to get on that wagon could, if executed poorly, look really obvious as a bus. So that part is null. If he's town he can be consistent in opinion. If he's a wolf then he'd rather look like a stubborn townie than a cheap busser. What's suspicious here is represnting it as something he totally wouldn't do as a wolf. In that situation, where he was already committed to a town read of karnos (though not based on much of any substance), it's totally plausible as a play.

3) He's asking me to prove that my votes weren't tactical without presenting much of a case for why they are in fact tactical. I would say that I was working on developing my reads, that I presented my thoughts, and that I'd had reasons for each vote I was on (I'd also note that PC was hammered before I hopped on, and it was explicitly a mod error thing, as opposed to something that reads particularly tactical in nature).

4) Look at his approach to D6. He's super excited and high energy when I state suspicion of you and is totally willing to push you on everything. Then when I go back, re-read and get off the suspicion of you, that push goes away and he's just "convinced" again that it was very obviously me all along. His substantive reasonings are weak, and his main weapon is AtE and manipulation. He's not able to substantiate a meaningful case against me because he knows there isn't one he can make. He's trapped and he knows it.

[Transcend]

Sticks and stones can break my bones
But walls of text can never hurt me.

My case is genuine on you and you're just being ignorant.

[mhsmith0]

Your case is genuinely bad, anyway. Not sure how I can be ignorant if I'm supposedly a lying wolf, but that one I'll at least let go as being lazy language use.

By the way, it's been really fun to watch your giga read bounce around, see

But let it be known that whether you flip town or scum, I bestow the title of biggest waffle of this game to you, Giga.

(before he voted me, and was still "casing" you)

Like i said you're the biggest waffle this fucking game and you've doubted so many trs to lynch them. Today is no different.

(ditto)

I really can't think of anything else, I tried my ABSOLUTE FUCKIGN DAMNDEST 3 FUCKING HOURS to get mhsmith lynched and tenshii saved and i fucking failed and i'm fucking furious because tenshii giga and thor were obvious fucking town.

(now that he voted me... Thor, who Trans clearly didn't hard town read, and Giga, who trans was "sorting" early D6 were both "obvious fucking town")

This is not blatant imo I think smith is doing a good job at towning it up.

(i.e. it's just smith doing well, implication being that there's no shame to giga if they blow it)

God damn dude you need to learn to trust yourself

You're on your way to the biggest L of the century and it's all because you evaded your former town reads.

Like sincerely i don't know what to say. You bombed the f*** out of this game since d2 onwards.

(self explanatory)

You're obviously a very good player Giga with very good early reads. Your participation and effort recently declined due to other factors. I can say with great certainty that your townread on me was on point. You really need to trust yourself from what your initial thoughts were. Like I will not stop tantalizing you post game if you lynch me and that was the fourth time you waffled and fucked up.

(manipulative, appeal to fear/embarrasment, AND "you're a very good player, just playing like crap")

Giga, if you have any questions ask, otherwise it's basically just me smacking down Trans's BS arguments.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

i can't think of anything to ask

i'm planning to do a big re-read saturday, so I might have content by then

[mhsmith0]

well you could always just ask yourself why you haven't hammered trans yet

[gigabyteTroubadour]

this is true.

i want to make sure I win this though...... zzzzzz sorry i'm going for the slow burn for you guys

[mhsmith0]

nah i get it. I might very well do the same in your shoes (people have bitched about my pacing in games sometimes before fwiw). It'd be nice to lock in the W and move on, but if you need more time, take it.

[Transcend]

Take. Your. Time.

[Transcend]

My worst nightmare is you hammering me when I'm not extremely available to defend myself and attack mhsmith. I'm available on Saturday as well. We will have a long ass talk about this and i will get you back on the right track.

[gigabyteTroubadour]

lmao
i wont hammer until the last minute

probably

[mhsmith0]

btw, relating to the earlier back and forth about trans's statement of anger, this is actually one of my favorite scum-hunting advice posts, from graveyard of a game I played a while ago from a really good player:

I don't have time to adequately respond to that post but one thing I can say quickly is that when I'm talking about emotions, I'm specifically excluding anger. It's the easiest emotion to fake and it's one that is often not alignment-indicative even when it is genuine, unless it can be traced to an origin in something distinctly villagery.

Emotions like pride, paranoia, surprise, suspicion, etc, are more difficult to fake. Wolves often fail to even identify spots in which emotion should be present in their posting, and their efforts at actually displaying more complex emotions are often quite clumsy, for example by stating their supposed feelings rather than displaying them.

But in the case of Cron, a lot of what was clearing for him was just the sheer depth and breadth of his reads and interactions. It's just hard to fake that much content so quickly and make it sound good. And few wolves are ever going to stalk other players' online statuses in order to catch lurkers.

People saying "I'm feeling ___" while their posts really don't seem to reflect it is actually something I've found to be a really cool scum-tell.

[Transcend]

P

R

O

D

G

E

[tojam2]

RAINBOW!!!