Newbie 1744 - Game Over

[SpyreX]

So where did my opinion switch? Where have i talked about towncop before this page?

[Toto]

So,

Just to explain things a little bit. The case on TownCop is already damning. But I'm actually more concerned about Copper

You, see. I didn't pay attention to the first post in this game.

VOTE: TownCop
You Sir, are clearly fake claiming .

HumanSequencer did. And they were trying to hide an innocent question with other question which got her into trouble in their first post.

By itself, it looks rather petty argument. But everything fits so well.

It explains why Copper was so kind in driving the conversation on my lynch. He would not want me to just get lynched while yelling his partner is Scum. At least not without first getting some town cred, and telling everyone to not try to hunt by association, in case TownCop got lynched on D2.

It also explains why Copper went from telling one person he doesn't like Village Idiots to helping the ultimate Village Idiot / Scum in the group so far.

So, copper, what do you think about lynching TownCop? should we leave you the honors?

[copper223]

I think TownCop has a higher chance then average of being scum if you are town Toto, if I had to pick between the two of you at the moment I'd lynch TC.

I have different standards for IC's and SE's compared to newer players.

[copper223]

If TC is scum I'd say there's a very decent chance his buddy is SB.

The player I'd be willing to be the game on being town is HS for me, I have a town lean on Gideon but it's not that strong of a read as Spyre's.

[SpyreX]

If hc's frank stuff is as you say i feel much better about that slot as well.

[SpyreX]

Hs even. Realistically toto i feel OK about. Just a little bloodlusty.

Leaving the outside towncop, jason, smooth and frank. I feel fairly good about that.

[Toto]

If TC is scum I'd say there's a very decent chance his buddy is SB.

Why SB?

[copper223]

Because he is supporting TC without openly town-reading him.

His first post was about TC's postion wrt to pressure voting you being perfectly understandable, after a few of you started to redirect on TC he came out with: I'm confused guys, what did TC do?

Now that is what a newbie buddy often does, he doesn't want to fully commit to defend in case it's a hopeless cause and he then has to deal with the associatives, but he will often try to inject some doubt in the thread if he thinks he can seem reasonable doing so.

Of course, as I have been telling you, this is only relevant if TC is actually scum which is an open question.

[Toto]

The player I'd be willing to be the game on being town is HS for me

Explain this for me. Why are you so convinced?

[copper223]

SB had a good point about me giving away how I read town players and how it could be dangerous, so I'll stop quoting specific instances, HS's whole mindset is about figuring out the game and that's hard to fake if you already know how it looks beforehand.

[JasonWazza]

I need to read up because i have been active in another game and neglecting this one.

[copper223]

@TC
Why do you now think Toto is more likely wrong town rather than scum?

[JasonWazza]

Jason was very aggressive on the wall page between him and Copper. I don't believe he had to be that aggressive at that stage and so early on in the game.

@Jason, since Copper has voiced his opinion on your alignment after the discussion, what are your thoughts on Copper's alignment?

For the first part, what do you think my aggression means in terms of my alignment?

Second part i will likely get to before i finish this post, if it's still in bold i fucked up and forgot.

Nevermind it didn't end up happening below, i feel Copper is a scum lean and probably my personal top scum read, his not doing anything to actually put his neck out and is staying extremely safe with his reads.

Yes there's no need for a hammer at this point.

Remember when i was talking about reaction tests? This is a baby version of that.

P-edit: I'm engaged, but deep meaningful content will come much later. If copper is the 'leader' I'll be the 'observer' for the time being

I don't like this post, SpyreX is just trying to keep himself from commiting to anything.

Can 2 IC's or and IC and SE both be scum, while every newbie is townie?

While possible it's fairly unlikely

Jason, I understand you haven't been at your computer (to my knowledge) since I last asked, but what is your perspective on Toto?

I don't know about Toto for now, he is new, which makes reading him a little harder (as it does with all of you.) but i would honestly say he is a very slight town lean if anything.

[JasonWazza]

@Copper if you were to be flipped scum, who do you think would be your partner?

And yes this is a serious question.

[copper223]

@Jason
Like Thor I am a strong proponent of the anti-bussing league, unless I believe my scum-mate is great as scum or if I am playing with someone that knows me very well I will likely only say positive things about their alignment and never put them on the spot, so my hypothetical scum-mate would have likely been in {HS, Jason, Spyre}.

That said your point about me giving only safe "reads" is pretty egregious, even for my mental image of you town, do you mean "scum reads" or every read I have given?

[TownCop]

@Copper
Toto is showing reasonable attempts at scum hunting, which although inaccurate in some cases, still hints towards a townie. And while the vote changes also point to scum (which is why I only have a slight town read for Toto), it's probably just conflicting reads and Toto is just adjusting for them, although I may be totally wrong

[copper223]

@TC
Okay, but he was doing all of that before you put him at L-2 to see how he would react to the pressure, so what caused you to change your mind?

[TownCop]

@Copper
Mostly post 115

[TownCop]

And also from post 176.

[copper223]

How do you interpret 176?

[Human Sequencer]

@Toto
"HS. Random question, why didn't you RVS on your first post?"
As I said earlier, I value random questions above random votes.

You, see. I didn't pay attention to the first post in this game.

VOTE: TownCop
You Sir, are clearly fake claiming .

HumanSequencer did.

Did I?

If hc's frank stuff is as you say i feel much better about that slot as well.

Here you go. Frank in the signup thread in isolation, compare the dates posted to my first post. http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p8362131

SmoothBlue is acting suspiciously to me. Am I the only one?

[Huntress]

Vote Count 1.5

TownCop (4) - copper223, Toto, Human Sequencer, Gideon (L-1)
Toto (1) - FrankJaeger
copper223 (1) - JasonWazza
Gideon (1) - TownCop

Not voting (2) - SmoothBlue, SpyreX


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Saturday, 15th October 8pm BST, (in (expired on 2016-10-15 20:00:00)).

[TownCop]

So,

Just to explain things a little bit. The case on TownCop is already damning. But I'm actually more concerned about Copper

You, see. I didn't pay attention to the first post in this game.

VOTE: TownCop
You Sir, are clearly fake claiming .

HumanSequencer did. And they were trying to hide an innocent question with other question which got her into trouble in their first post.

By itself, it looks rather petty argument. But everything fits so well.

It explains why Copper was so kind in driving the conversation on my lynch. He would not want me to just get lynched while yelling his partner is Scum. At least not without first getting some town cred, and telling everyone to not try to hunt by association, in case TownCop got lynched on D2.

It also explains why Copper went from telling one person he doesn't like Village Idiots to helping the ultimate Village Idiot / Scum in the group so far.

So, copper, what do you think about lynching TownCop? should we leave you the honors?

@Copper
This all seems like a town trying to get useful information by making reads. Ignoring his read on me (I have already explained my point on that), I'll take a look at his read on you. I can clearly see Toto's reasoning/logic behind his view on you, if I were mafia then his reasoning stands up all well and good (in this case hunting by association works very well); I do disagree though. But this is where hunting by association does gets town lynched: Toto's logic is faulty through assuming that I am mafia, and uses that to make definitive connections, such as that you're also likely to be mafia - you could be, but even if you are this is certainly not a good reason, and I do have a slight town read on you (look at it from my perspective and consider the fact that I know I am town).

-----
Current reads:
Copper: Towny
HS: Slightly Town
Toto: Slightly Town
Jason: Slightly Town
Spy: Slightly Town
SB: Slightly Scummy
Gideon: Scummy
Frank: Null

[Human Sequencer]

Unvote

I don't like TownCop at L-1.
I do think it's pretty fucking stupid to write out a read list out like that at this point of the game-- You'll notice a lot of players are reading Copper as town. The Mafia knows whether we're correct or not (of course) and can then choose to lynch Copper because he is at that point an asset to us and a liability to them, because it's harder to get us to mislynch someone we believe as town.

I also think it's potentially a very bad thing people are viewing Copper as so towny so consistently in general. There are two possibilities, Copper is scum and now hard to lynch, or Copper is town and now has a target on his back. It could be disastrous if he carried a power role. I don't think he does, though.

[Human Sequencer]

And the mafia can then choose to nightkill copper*