Application of WOTC

[Frozen Angel]

the idea that it is "ok to have a blacklist" but that it's childish to want someone out of a game you're in is contradictory

WOTC and all variants of it are designed specifically for enforcing "blacklists"

nah your not getting it

you saw children playing with each other? sometime they just throw one of them out of the game cuase they think their not funto play with. Thats WOTC.

What is the more civilized manner? to avoid the game yourself or to contact the player - not the mod - about the problem you have with them.

I do believe WOTM is completely ok as everyone is ok for having a blacklist. we all have our blacklists in RL and mods can make sure some people they hate won't be in the games their designing for strangers over web. and players are ok for having blacklist but they must enforce it themselves without putting a middleman as an enforcer.

But then as I said I really don't care if others continue doing this. I won't ever implement it or use it in any manner though.

[Frozen Angel]

in other words "the enforcing method is rude" in my opinion. not the users , nor the mod and I'm not saying the fact a kind of enforcement must be done in some scenarios is wrong.

[zMuffinMan]

WOTC (and its variants) and its variants are about getting a player you don't want to play with out of a game. PMing a player directly about issues wouldn't necessarily achieve this

also no one who knowingly joins a game after another player should have any right to use WOTC (and its variants)

plus people in general are little bitches and WOTC provides them an outlet to avoid direct conflict resolution

[Frozen Angel]

WOTC (and its variants) and its variants are about getting a player you don't want to play with out of a game. PMing a player directly about issues wouldn't necessarily achieve this

also no one who knowingly joins a game after another player should have any right to use WOTC (and its variants)

plus people in general are little bitches and WOTC provides them an outlet to avoid direct conflict resolution

I'm not convinced and I really don't think there is anything you can say to convince me

you can continue doing your uncivilized enforcement method. I'm ok with mine. someone is bitch and won't out the game you inned first even though their on your blacklist? I won't play that game. I have no right for having that game - at least no more than them. I was just faster in joining. They have no problem with us that their inned after us. Now its our problem to reason with them and resolve our conflict or just avoid the game. asking mod to exile a player cuase you don't like them is not an acceptable manner.

[Shadow_step]

I don't blame Kuroi or House for that at all. I'd WotC Yume too.

[Ranmaru]

In this model it is made public if the Mod feels it a necessary thing to enforce, so the players can decide and the WOTC'd knows it's happening.

The people who are voting yes to out someone must be known. Its lame to vote for WOTC'ing someone without telling them. Its not ok with any standards.

I think having it public so the person can understand why and both sides are shown and there is actual rational reason for the person being disallowed is the right way to do it no ifs or buts about it who cares about feelings you have to be real.

I

think

WOTC is there to eliminate the need to have to policy lynch a player. Back in the day that was the norm. You wouldn't policy lynch a player willy nillylily. Usually it's for players that don't play the game or to their wincon at all. If it was simply for pure dislike I would disagree with it. (Also would WOTC for toxic behavior and insults)

Maybe someone else can actually give some history on WOTC and how it was beneficial or not. (With stats on who was WOTC'd out of there that deserved it vs those that did not deserve it)

---

@Frozen Angel: I don't think it's rude. It seems more vague so it's hard to tell if it's on dislike or constructive dislike. (This person lurked to infinity, etc) If this were made public and there was a valid reason to disallow a person to join then it'd probably be less rude but more constructive so that player could improve.

[zMuffinMan]

With stats on who was WOTC'd out of there that deserved it vs those that did not deserve it

no one has been WOTCd that didn't "deserve" it, where "deserving" it means either playing so badly in games that people don't want to play with them again, or playing in a way that made people just not want to play with them again

it has never happened

the people who complain about WOTC are the people who it happens to and, well, look at the people who have complained about it, i guess...

i mean, you can say it's an unfair system and whatnot but, hey, i don't know a single player who has been WOTCd that i would look at and say, "i don't understand why that would have happened"

[Ranmaru]

Fair enough. I have no solid opinion of it (since I don't follow it closely) nor did I see it being used unfairly, yet I still think having it public won't hurt anyway. It'd be the same thing either way. Also why no avatar dude.

[Frozen Angel]

the people who complain about WOTC are the people who it happens to and, well, look at the people who have complained about it, i guess...

what a pitiful response ... such a ...

no , I never got wotc'ed before just so you now , and I'm not afraid for getting wotc'd. I told all these stuff about WOTC the first time I saw it happened 8 months ago when I was playing my first games on site.

"and just look at the people who are complaining about it?" Just tell who are you talking about! jeez. Yes I was out of control during our last game. I have personality disorder, I was even confined in an asylum 2 years ago , I did try to suicide before .I have issues; and I was at 6th month of pregnancy when we played that game. I do applogize for my behavior there.

Anyway I don't consider you someone worthy enough for me to waste my time to even argue about whats right and whats not. and I'm fine to be blacklisted by you (and respectfully you are blacklisted by me) see? we don't need WOTC. its already resolved, isn't it? If anytime I joined a game where you were in before me and I didn't notice just pm me and I will out very reasonably. and I know you don't care that I consider you worthy enough - so you don't consider me worthy enough to argue about anything with me as well.

so why are you arguing with me?

edit :and just for completing this ,If your interested why I don't consider you worthy enough we may have a private communication about that, But I doubt it.

[zMuffinMan]

the reasoning behind not making it public is something like "it creates more drama" but then you get threads like this where people who have been WOTCd or are close to someone who has been WOTCd whine about how bad a system it is

tbh i don't really think it matters - do you think people choose not to play with others for no reason? if not, then do you honestly think the people who get WOTCd don't understand why it happened? i mean, maybe there's some naive people who really don't understand why others might not want to play with them but the vast majority of people who get WOTCd know exactly why it's happening. it's why they use alts to avoid it and shit...

really, the only issues with WOTC are actually non-issues - nobody should ever get WOTCd by a player who knowingly joined a game after them and really no one who gets WOTCd doesn't know why it happened. they've probably been told by multiple people what their issues are already anyway...

[hiplop]

only people who oppose WOTC are awful people to play with

[zMuffinMan]

i mean, i "oppose" it in the sense id never use it and i think it's a stupid way of dealing with issues you have with someone

but really, the people who complain about it fall into one of two camps - those who live in an alternate reality or are deluded enough to think everyone can get along with everyone else and those who are personally affected (they or someone they're close to got WOTCd)

[KuroiXHF]

asking mod to exile a player cuase you don't like them is not an acceptable manner.

I take issue with this part here. It's not that I don't like Yume. I don't know her. For all I know, she's a cool person to hang out with, have a beer with and shoot the shit. I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.

What I DO know is that she's toxic to play with. Now if Mith came and presented an amazing "My Little Princess" Mafia that I've been /inned for a year because of a long queue and I've been so excited about forever, should I have to /out because Yume decided to join in?

Fuck that.

Seriously.

[Frozen Angel]

the reasoning behind not making it public is something like "it creates more drama" but then you get threads like this where people who have been WOTCd or are close to someone who has been WOTCd whine about how bad a system it is

tbh i don't really think it matters - do you think people choose not to play with others for no reason? if not, then do you honestly think the people who get WOTCd don't understand why it happened? i mean, maybe there's some naive people who really don't understand why others might not want to play with them but the vast majority of people who get WOTCd know exactly why it's happening. it's why they use alts to avoid it and shit...

really, the only issues with WOTC are actually non-issues - nobody should ever get WOTCd by a player who knowingly joined a game after them and really no one who gets WOTCd doesn't know why it happened. they've probably been told by multiple people what their issues are already anyway...

Then don't make more

I'm not talking in this position becuase I'm in danger of wotc or whetever the fuck you want to push. stop making that pitiful comment ,k?

yes I am a horrible person. I suck but my POV is not related to the state I'm in. This was my pov from way before even knowing who the fuck were you.

Player A is not nice to play with and player B don't want to play with them anymore

I said I'm ok with this part. That is resonable. That is FINE. Thats player B's right.

The way they enforce this (WOTC) is what I have complaints against. Player B is in game X , and player A joins it. That means player A has no issues with player B , now its on player B to decide if they want to give it another try or get out of the unpleasant situation. Player B has no right to get player A's chance for playing the game ; how horrible player A might be. If player A broke any rules; site moderation system will ban them and prevent them from playing the games. If not thats just player B's personal opinion about Player A.

Now you may say thats not fair as player A is the bad one. who are you to judge the bad one?

[Frozen Angel]

asking mod to exile a player cuase you don't like them is not an acceptable manner.

I take issue with this part here. It's not that I don't like Yume. I don't know her. For all I know, she's a cool person to hang out with, have a beer with and shoot the shit. I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.

What I DO know is that she's toxic to play with. Now if Mith came and presented an amazing "My Little Princess" Mafia that I've been /inned for a year because of a long queue and I've been so excited about forever, should I have to /out because Yume decided to join in?

Fuck that.

Seriously.

definitly not! ask yume that you blacklisted her or reasons X , Y , Z and you don't want to play with her anymore until those gets resolved. tell her that you were before her in this game and wait for her to leave.

If she didn't leave then she is being unreasonable. now you might bring this problem to mod and mod might use whatever enforcer methods he might want.

[Aristophanes]

Of course there have been people who are aware of issues with other players already inner who in anyway..

[Aristophanes]

If she didn't leave then she is being unreasonable. now you might bring this problem to mod and mod might use whatever enforcer methods he might want

This is WOTC/WOTM

[Frozen Angel]

i mean, i "oppose" it in the sense id never use it and i think it's a stupid way of dealing with issues you have with someone

but really, the people who complain about it fall into one of two camps - those who live in an alternate reality or are deluded enough to think everyone can get along with everyone else and those who are personally affected (they or someone they're close to got WOTCd)

my issue that I mentioned before is that I was seeing everyone as my enemy and I can't see people freindly - which is way better nowdays.

I am not complaining about the blacklisting , I am just saying you need to be decent enough to talk about your issues with the person you have issues with before using any enforcement methods and these methods if any must be public so the accuesed person can defend or talk with the people who has problem with him/her directly.

It might cuase drama yes. but its fair.

[Frozen Angel]

If she didn't leave then she is being unreasonable. now you might bring this problem to mod and mod might use whatever enforcer methods he might want

This is WOTC/WOTM

WOTM is reasonable since the start moment of signing up as mod is the owner of the game.

I am saying WOTC is not reasonable before talking with the person you have issues with and is being unreasonable by joining the game you asked them not to and as a hidden method for outing others.

[Frozen Angel]

only people who oppose WOTC are awful people to play with

BTW

nice one hiplop!

to just kick me in the middle of the conversion without getting involved with it at all! I owe you one

[Raskolnikov]

Who wants to play with people who don't want to play with them?

[zMuffinMan]

Player B has no right to get player A's chance for playing the game ; how horrible player A might be

the point of WOTC(rowd) is that player A makes several players not want to play and therefore it becomes an issue of multiple players out of a game to let one player in and if a number of people have issue with that player already then it probably says something about how the game is going to be - so, you know, the mod follows the

wisdom of the crowd

in that case... that's kind of how it derived its name

you're thinking of WOTO(ne), but even that is an understandable concept whether or not you agree with it - you seem to think that because player B should be the one to suck it up or replace out because a player they don't want to play with joined

after

them... some people do that (you see people /out when another player joins sometimes) but really, your philosophy is no more valid than someone who thinks player A (who joined afterward) should be the one to find a new game

it's really up to the individual moderators, not you, how they feel about it. if you don't like this, don't join games that advertise WOTO

[Frozen Angel]

no one! tell them they are not playing the games and their ruing the fun

ask mod to add them as specter if that suffice.

IF this is about Yume , Yes I am aware. she is a friend of mine as zmuffin said , but even me don't really like to play mafia with her (she was playing mafia before me). and she is pretty much unreasonable about joing new games. I'm sure she was banned from joining more than 2 games or something and thats pretty much acceptable ban for her. I'm not defending her. mods have any rights to stop her from joining their games.

I was talking about WOTC in general sense not in my friends case. You can't out someone from what they have as much as rights about as you do, you need to try to reason with them first , if its not working and there is no way to make peace , mod must make a judgement call about it.

[Frozen Angel]

The same point I made can be applied for all of the playerlists in the game so the same applies to WOTC as well. everyone has equal right to achieve a slot in a game - unless moderator restrict some players - This is the principle I have and its what I call fair in this topic which you have a different opinion on and whoever uses WOTC and WOTO thinks that way. When we don't have the same principles we can't argue about the foundations logically.

it's really up to the individual moderators, not you, how they feel about it.

That I agree with and I told it multiple times. When I moderate , I won't apply these methods - but as I said WOTM in my opinion is totally reasonable so I might make judgement calls as moderator to make game omfortable for the rest of playerlists. When others moderate I'm just a player who - according to the princple I mentioned above - can only talk with other players about my issues and if that didn't work resolve them by asking the mod to make a judgement call or by leaving the game. If other mods use wotc or wotm that's not them being rude (eventhough the methods themselves are rude in my opinion) and I as player will surrender to others will (and thats not making the other players rude as well for using an ability mod gave them)

[Shadoweh]

the reasoning behind not making it public is something like "it creates more drama" but then you get threads like this where people who have been WOTCd or are close to someone who has been WOTCd whine about how bad a system it is

WOTC used to be done quietly and I imagine it still happens that way most of the time. People don't like to cause conflict and a private way of saying they're not comfortable with a person in the game makes it more likely people speak up instead of being quiet for the sake of 'not causing drama'. To me it's like imagining if our report system let people see who reported them.

There isn't a point of having it be public for the sake of letting the accused state their case or whatever. If [insert mod threshhold] people say they don't want to play with someone there isn't anything left to say.