Newbie 1744 - Game Over

[Human Sequencer]

Toto, I like you a lot more now and I'm glad we didn't lynch you.

SmoothCriminal, stop being scum.

TownCop is very suspicious to me. Considering Toto unvoted, I'm going to

Vote: TownCop

[TownCop]

Ive got a favor to ask. Can someone give a small summary of why Copper should be todays lynch? Ide like to hear from everyone on the wagon if possible. My reads are still foggy. I have a confident town read, and my vote is still where it is for a reason. Thats it.

I see some more content has been posted, and Im going to digest it tonight.

The main problem I've had with TC and the reason for the vote is that he claimed to reaction test Toto by putting him at L-2, but then did nothing once the extra pressure was added.

If you claim you are pressure voting to read someone I would then expect you to use that to interact with the possible scum-read in an inquisitive manner, instead it's more like TC is defending himself from Toto for placing him at L-2 and trying to get Toto to unvote him (once Toto did vote for it).

The unvote later on was also not really justified and the first time I asked him why he changed his mind he brought up characteristics of Toto's play that Toto had been doing all along, so if that's how you read that behavior to begin with, I'd expect you to have a town read on him and there would be no need to reaction test that particular slot.

It may be that the reaction test backfired, but it doesn't quite add up to me.

Another point is that he doesn't interact much with his scum-reads, most of the dialogue is reactive from his side, he votes Toto, then Toto votes him back and questions him, and then he answers and there is a small back and forth, the same goes for Gideon and SB he never questioned. This also strikes me as odd, in contrast look at how much Jason is focused on me, or how Toto immediately engages his "new scum-read" as soon as he thinks he found a connection.

Originally, it was #50, #82 and the likes that caught my attention for the reaction test. His play changed significantly after (especially after we were completely out of RVS), with more information that has a solid base, and that was what lead to my unvote. It also looked like a town diving deep into a case rather than what originally looked like scum trying to find a suitable target.

Yes, a lot of dialogue is reactive from my side. I am being questioned about my intents like PbPA so what would you expect?

Also, what prevents me from making reads off people in exchanges that I did not participate in? An example is SB. It is inaccurate to say that I have never questioned SB when the reality is that I am being associated with SB as scum pretty much every second post.

[Huntress]

Vote Count 1.6

TownCop (3) - copper223, Gideon, Human Sequencer
Toto (1) - FrankJaeger
copper223 (1) - JasonWazza
Gideon (1) - TownCop

Not voting (3) - SmoothBlue, SpyreX, Toto


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Saturday, 15th October 8pm BST, (in (expired on 2016-10-15 20:00:00)).

[copper223]

@TC
Fair enough, I'll check back on those posts you mention to see if I also get the impression that Toto's play changed.

I would expect there to be a lot of answers to people questioning you in your ISO (like you are doing with me now), but also your own lines of inquiry trying to figure out if something x said is actually indicative of them being scum and that part is lacking.

Nothing prevents you from getting reads from conversations you are not part of, but once you have a certain read, especially a scum-read, I would expect you to go further and engage them, wouldn't that make sense if your job is to figure out who is scum?

@HS
Why do you think that if you were to flip green, Frank would be cleared?

[Human Sequencer]

I don't.

At the time, I thought people would take my initial mistake harsher than they did, and me flipping green would have cleared Frank of any scumminess in relation to that mistake. However Frank flipping green would still have the card of 'He fucked up' against me people could have used later on in the game.

It's mostly irrelevant now, I believe.

I agree with TownCop, Copper. I think Toto's play has changed for the better.

[copper223]

@HS
TC sounds truthful enough to me as well in his latest replies, making me think that a read shake-up is necessary.

I'm looking at Frank, Gideon, and SB; or maybe Jason is faking the tunnel after all?

How are you feeling about Frank?

[Human Sequencer]

Jason's tunnel never made me convinced that he was town. He's a null read for me.
I also don't suspect Gideon.
SB is a prime suspect, though. He seems to be playing very reactionary, and his 'catch up' post wasn't very engaging nor convincing for me. It seemed to me that he was using our hindsight to inform how he should be reacting.

I didn't have a perspective on Frank before you asked, but reading back I am reading him as town.

Toto you can hardly call what human did a scum slip. Town or scum could make that mistake.

I feel as though a scum would prefer to distance themself from something like this, instead of going straight in and stating their opinion.
Plus, 'ha ha, if you say so' speaks town to me. Along with asking why Copper is on the wagon, even though TownCop is currently on the wagon. Just simple things a scum would pay more attention to.
He's very casual with how he's playing, and I doubt a newbie scum would be able to pull that off.

I should clafiry on TownCop, I agree with him on Toto, but I'm still not convinced what he's posted is enough to remove suspicion. I do like him a lot more now, though, he just hasn't completely won me over.

I'm happy with a SB lynch today, with how things currently are.

Vote: SmoothBlue

[Toto]

Frank is town. I'm not happy with a SB lynch. I think he is town too, although I'm less confident than Frank. That's one reason why I dropped the vote on TC. Some things are not adding up. I need to think about this.

[Toto]

The 3 ICs are acting pretty non-committing. I think it's safe to say at least one of them is scum at this point.

[SmoothBlue]

the same goes for Gideon and SB he never questioned.

He = Gideon, in this sense, correct?

[SmoothBlue]

SmoothCriminal, stop being scum.

The amount of names I've received this game is astonishing. I'm wondering if you guys can't even read.

[SmoothBlue]

SB is a prime suspect, though. He seems to be playing very reactionary, and his 'catch up' post wasn't very engaging nor convincing for me. It seemed to me that he was using our hindsight to inform how he should be reacting.

Just curious, where did I use anyone's hindsight?

At this point, I have only had my own opinions on people.

[Gideon]

I see no reason to vote SmoothBlue. TownCop is trying too hard to be cool under pressure to be town. I'm maintaining my vote.

[copper223]

@SB
No, he is TownCop in that context, he has a scum-lean on you but hasn't engaged you.

[SmoothBlue]

In regards to Gideon,

Right now, I have a town vibe on him. He will need to add more discussion, ask specific players more questions in the future if he wants to stay alive past Day 2.

[Human Sequencer]

SB is a prime suspect, though. He seems to be playing very reactionary, and his 'catch up' post wasn't very engaging nor convincing for me. It seemed to me that he was using our hindsight to inform how he should be reacting.

Just curious, where did I use anyone's hindsight?

At this point, I have only had my own opinions on people.

I read post 122 as you using others' opinions to inform how yours should look.

[SmoothBlue]

I read post 122 as you using others' opinions to inform how yours should look.

@HS,
Other than the Jason outlook, which everyone seemed to have a similar opinion on, who's opinions did I use, where are they stated? I just re-read #122 and see nothing like that post elsewhere. I also was just coming into the game at that point.

@HS
What do you think of Spy right now?

[Human Sequencer]

I don't have a read on spy and I wish he would post more 'meaningful content', but I can understand why he isn't.

Gideon's defense being odd was a commonly held belief at the time, and so is a hope for more content.

Jason being too aggressive that early on was also a commonly held belief at the time.

Toto defending himself poorly was a commonly help belief at the time.

I don't think you just copasted other people's posts into your own. The post reads to me as somebody who considered what they were writing out very carefully, thinking about how others feel about the topic at that particular moment.
And it reads pretty strongly to me. You're absolutely at the top of my scum reads right now.

[Gideon]

Wait what do questions have to do with being town?

[Toto]

The 3 ICs are acting pretty non-committing. I think it's safe to say at least one of them is scum at this point.

[Toto]

Wait what do questions have to do with being town?

Townies have more questions to ask, or more things to wonder. Townies don't know who is town and who is mafia, for example.

[Toto]

@TC You seem to agree with HS on the reasons for SB's scumminess. What's your take on SB's post 122.

[Toto]

@SB in post 122 you said Gideon may be 'milking' the newbie card. Can you explain why you said that?

[Toto]

Jason, can you explain to me what's the point of 188?

[copper223]

I don't know, Jason being more incensed about me calling him VI and continuing to ask that question in particular instead of being worried about the scum part still seems like a town-tell to me.

Frank I am slightly suspicious of because he asked everyone on the TC wagon to justify their position, that could have been scum deciding if they wanted to make the jump or not.

Gideon, you said Toto just wanted somebody to die, I can see that behavior in you too, especially the jump from Toto to TC worries me (and what you said in 166205, if you thought the arguments were good enough to move you from your Toto scum-read onto someone scum-reading him, then why weren't you going to hold your vote on TC until he posted more incriminating text? What did he post that made you lean more mafia?

I've read HS's SB case and I might join that if these probes are dead ends, it's not a bad case.