Copper:
Town. Only hesitation is the spat with Jason, but even then ONLY on a Jason-scum flip - If it's fabricated, it is both sides.
Frank:
Town. Major paranoia point is the P1 second-vote, but that is probably my personal paranoia combined with how I read the game and post. If NOT for that point, then I would only be concerned with the volume of content.
Gideon:
Town. I still find that early exchange to be town. Some of the voting pattern could be suspect depending on how things play out, but I'm still very much confident with that read. I'm not as sure as I was, but it's a hard sell. TownCop-town would make me a lot more hesitant.
Human Sequencer:
Town. Unless Frank ends up being a slip, which I doubt, town. I especially like the thought process around Toto and how his read has adapted.
JasonWazza:
Scum. He'd still be the one I'd shoot.
I'm known for playing fast and loose with the English language, because I do love me a great hyperbole, but there is a line between exaggeration for effect and painting a different story then what actually is happening:
I'm sad because Gideon wasn't more offensive about this. Gideon asking about the two votes isn't defending
me
because its a question of the behavior of the two of them - the target itself is fairly moot. And somehow, my guess is because this IS a newbie, that didn't get lit up.
But, its not as if its happened just once. In the discussion with copper:
In post 36, JasonWazza wrote:How the fuck does that make me a VI?
Your question is irrelevant to any discussion, and is a fucking strawman at best.
The fact that you think hiding RVS from the new players is actually a good thing is just terrible, it may not be alignment indicative, but it's terrible from a newbie game standard, we are in a newbie game, deciding your just going to hide what RVS is, isn't a good thing.
Again, the use of language is striking. There is no simple way to get from what copper was doing that he was
hiding
anything from anyone.
I know the rebuttal is going to be 'headstrong' and this acidity may be a playstyle thing but it's a pattern that I dont like. The only thing giving me real hesitation is I woulnd't expect a bus this game this early and, shock, smoothblue is also a prime target.
SmoothBlue:
Scum. Leaving aside the simple probability, I don't like the tonal changes we see as it goes. The startoff is low content even-keel but as things move, and not as a direct function of 'pressure' on him, you see the tone change to more aggressive and defensive quickly.
A few standouts that have the tonal dissonance:
In post 122, SmoothBlue wrote: In post 116, copper223 wrote:Now the question is, was your slot a mafia replace out? To answer that, what sticks out to you from the pages that happened before you replaced in?
There was a lot of content to go through, I read most of it last night (Read into other games as well, preparing myself for a game) but I'll need to re-read it all again to ensure I haven't missed anything.
Gideon's defense was very odd considering there was only a couple votes down. He definitely is a new players, but I feel he is milking that "new player card". I'd like to see more content out of him.
Jason was very aggressive on the wall page between him and Copper. I don't believe he had to be that aggressive at that stage and so early on in the game.
Since Toto was on L-2, he really hasn't defended himself very well. I also feel its very difficult to defend yourself, especially if a game has a lot of players tunnelling. His words are not making much sense and he really seems to be trying to push the investigation to another player. It's too early for me to tell his alignment yet.
Copper, the past few days it seems like you've placed yourself as a leader role within the group in my opinion. This is due to the conversation with Jason and then thoughtfully explaining to everyone your reasoning and putting others on the defense. The only thing I dislike about your playstyle right now, is you keep confirming players actions as town actions, which as a leader, is a dangerous thing to do because newer players who wagon agree with you more. If you are town it's an awesome advantage for us. If you are scum you can give that extra shove to town to lynch town players.
I'd like to see more content from Spy.
@Jason, since Copper has voiced his opinion on your alignment after the discussion, what are your thoughts on Copper's alignment?
This is fairly even-handed, although a lot of explaining the 'obvious'. I think it is worth noting that he's referencing Gideon as a 'new' player which is clearly showing that there is experience in this slot. Compare to:
In post 171, SmoothBlue wrote: In post 170, SpyreX wrote:Put on your scum hat for a moment. You want to make sure town get lynched. Usually that is going to require a vote. But,of course especially as a newer player, you're them forced into a fabrication time. You don't want to leave an unjustified vote so you have to give a reason. Ideally, something you can swing away from if necessary.
Something like for pressure.
And talking about the statistics, presuming knowledge, reading games, etc. You would see while in and of itself a vote is a vote the growth of a wagon starts to dictate scum will be on it.
I see your point, but it is almost the weakest point in this entire thread.
Placing people under the gun is a valuable asset as town. "If you don't claim, or defend yourself, you are on the brink of getting eliminated from the game". I think it was stated VERY clear a couple times in the thread that nobody wanted an early lynch. If this had come about nearing the deadline, I would look more into your reasoning, but this early into day 1.... TownCop even stated he was doing it to pressure Toto. We will need to put people on L-2, L-1 more often for information. Toto/Spy, not placing Mafia into these positions gives them free range and makes them much more dangerous. This makes you both look scummy in my eyes.
TownCop may be scum and was hoping some new townie would hammer Toto. Thus putting the pressure onto the new townie for hammering. Giving mafia two quick kills. I do honestly see where you are coming from but I feel it is way too early in the day for that play.
In my opinion, Toto did a brutal job of trying to defend himself and had votes flying everywhere and settled on TownCop. The fact that Spy/Gideon instantly switched their votes based on the above reasoning is quite ridiculous IMO.
So now we see a little warmth. We start running into some hyperbole that I dont like ('toto throwing votes everywhere', 'weakest reason in the thread'). But the biggest part of this exchange that I dont like I comment on:
In post 172, SpyreX wrote:I haven't moved my vote. Or even voted.
So big ol swing and miss.
I would expect this to cause someone to take a moment to think about how that changes how it plays out, but:
In post 174, SmoothBlue wrote: In post 171, SmoothBlue wrote: The fact that Spy/Gideon instantly switched their votes based on the above reasoning is quite ridiculous IMO.
In post 172, SpyreX wrote:I haven't moved my vote. Or even voted.
So big ol swing and miss.
The fact that Spy/Gideon instantly switched their votes/
opinions
based on the above reasoning is quite ridiculous IMO.
Which is one of those implied eyroll statements except for one thing.
I never expressed an opinion on TC before this
. I even asked about it, and while I wasn't going to press it at that point, the fact it was never answered when it's important to comment about more nicknames and the like is not an accident.
I'm fine with this lynch. Today.
Toto:
Town. The more he posts the more I'm confident with that. The excitement for things to move forward could be scum, but assuming this is truly a newbie, then I feel like town at this point.
TownCop:
He's a coinflip. I could see this being smart enough scum not to freak out at the 'reaction' votes. Or, this is town and if I'm wrong about my group of town above it could be Gideon. I like a lot of his thought processes so I may be letting my early dislike cloud my judgement.
The summary:
This group:
Copper
Frank
Gideon
HS
Toto
Lynches this group:
Jason
SmoothBlue
TownCop
There's at least one scum flipped. That should give enough to find the one missing if I'm wrong.
In general, waiting for the claim is a good idea.