Newbie 1744 - Game Over

[Toto]

Wow. haha. Ok.

@HS. What, in particular, did you find confusing about my last post? I'm happy to clarify. The questions in there are for Gideon, though. Also can you explain the part where I'm the one trying to incriminate Gideon now?

[SpyreX]

Just as a general note - while we all have real life and other obligations as you start to play more treat the game like a commitment. Replacementitis is something that gets endemic on here and its rude to everyone who was willing to invest.

@toto:
You're not wrong in that I've been a proponent of Gideon town, but i wouldn't say I've defended him. In fact the fact i appear to be in a minority has made me doubt myself some.
It's good to think about associative tells but be very careful on their application. A gideon scum flip would make me a lot 'easier' scum read but a town flip doesnt make me town

Generally speaking i prefer not to ask for extensions but running up someone who cant respond is another one of those non standard plays

[copper223]

@Huntress
This is the second time I've played with Wazza and both times he randomly lurked out

@Gideon
How about we start with SB claiming town tracker, isn't that something you'd want to confirm is possible or counter claim if it is not as soon as you read the thread? Why do you ask for questions addressed to you instead?

@All
I can't even say that Wazza's replace is scum indicative cause the last time he was town, it is asshole indicative though and I hope someone takes note.

[copper223]

@HS
Toto jumping around and likely reading the game by association produces what you've seen, he bounces around questioning everyone on associative cases depending on the latest thread interactions and how he thinks they might be indicative of both players being a scum team, which is tiresome, but that doesn't make all of his questions invalid.

@Toto
I don't see a good reason for why Jason / Gideon is not a possible pair, Gideon flipping scum would make me less sure of Spyre's alignment, but he has done a lot of townie things that have little to do with his Gideon read.

If Gideon / Spyre is the scum team it's not a big deal anyway, lynch Spyre if he gets to a 3 player lylo.

[Toto]

@toto:
You're not wrong in that I've been a proponent of Gideon town, but i wouldn't say I've defended him. In fact the fact i appear to be in a minority has made me doubt myself some.
It's good to think about associative tells but be very careful on their application. A gideon scum flip would make me a lot 'easier' scum read but a town flip doesnt make me town

That was my impression too. Defended was indeed too strong a word.

I'm a probabilities fan. All I wanted to say with this is that the more we suspect Gideon, the more we should suspect you, and the fact we are not suspecting you seems to conflict with this reasoning.

[copper223]

You were going a bit further than that questioning the validity of Gideon's wagon

because

people were not questioning Spyre as well, which doesn't make sense other than in your world where you are constantly looking for pairs, and that's where associations are dangerous and can lead down rabbit holes.

[Toto]

You were going a bit further than that questioning the validity of Gideon's wagon because people were not questioning Spyre as well, which doesn't make sense other than in your world where you are constantly looking for pairs, and that's where associations are dangerous and can lead down rabbit holes.

You are mis-interpreting my conclusion, or that's not the entire conclusion, at least.

The conclusion is that you have to either Suspect Gideon less, or Suspect Spyre more. Or some combination of the two. For example, it doesn't make sense to hard-town read spy and hard-scum read Gideon at the same time (just based on this data).

I was honest when I said I must be missing something. That's where I'm looking more feedback on.

[Toto]

@Huntress
This is the second time I've played with Wazza and both times he randomly lurked out

Was he Town or Mafia?

[Human Sequencer]

Town.

[Huntress]

ChaosOmega replaces JasonWazza.

[Human Sequencer]

Yo chaos.
I would appreciate a detailed read on Gideon and smoothblue when you've finished reading the thread.

[ChaosOmega]

Hello! Reading up now.

[ChaosOmega]

Not sure why you want a detailed read on Blue; he's a tracker until some contradictory claim happens. (This is me not claiming anything to suggest he isn't a tracker.)

As for what I think of Gideon, VOTE: Gideon
- 45 reads weird. Spy asked what someone thought about Gideon, and he immediately pops up and apologizes ("I didn't mean to spark any conflicts over my own misunderstandings."). I've seen enough newbies be overdefensive to be wary of that as a scumtell, but this is ultra-hyper defensiveness. No one accused Gideon of anything and he had no votes, not sure what conflicts he was referring to.
- Gideon, why were you hesitant to make accusations in 47? And why did you ask the question at the end of 158?
- 166, he puts TownCop to L-1 with seemingly lame reasoning. I know you clarified later this was a reaction test. This seems conflicting with you earlier, where you were super against early lynches. Did you know you were putting him at L-1?
- 205/262, you argue that you're maintaining your vote on TC because you're "generally wary of people who make a lot of accusations." This point blows. Before your vote on him, he made an RVS vote and a vote on Toto. Meanwhile, you had voted for Toto and Spy before jumping onto TC. Looks like you were just looking for a reason to stay on TC since it was the leading wagon.
- 266, I don't know how to read it. Toto calls you out for being a hypocrite and asking if you're scum for the same reason you're saying TC is, and you say that you're being town read. Who gives a shit? If it's scummy to do something, why are you doing it if you are town?
- Let's look at 2 of your posts in full:

I see no reason to vote SmoothBlue. TownCop is trying too hard to be cool under pressure to be town. I'm maintaining my vote.

Well, I'm not angry, but I am becoming more suspicious of SmoothBlue... and I have lots of reasons (gasp)!

He says I am "milking the new player card" but he claimed to be a new player himself:
#114 "I am new to Mafiascum, therefore I'll likely botch some tags and also ask for some lingo/try and research it myself (Did not know about RVS, VI, and I believe VC = Vote Count?)."
#122 "Gideon's defense was very odd considering there was only a couple votes down. He definitely is a new players, but I feel he is milking that "new player card". I'd like to see more content out of him."

He seems to have a conviction that all towns provide lots of content, and all scum provide little content. If this is his honest belief, then it explains the excessive amounts of content he's provided in order to make himself think he looks more like town. See:
#122: "I'd like to see more content out of [Gideon]." "I'd like to see more content from Spy."
#279: "My vibe on Gideon is that he isn't exactly providing content to the thread."
#281: "I can see someone who has more than 2 pages worth of content to sift through to have reads."

It was also mentioned that SmoothBlue's catch up post was suspiciously agreeable... fair point...

He says my 'defense' (if you can call it that - I really just asked why he was being voted) of Spy is scummish, but he does the same thing with TownCop:
#168: "I'm confused right now? What happened with TownCop other than he put Toto on L-2? @Toto and Spy, What am I missing here?"
#169: "The only thing that I see is the possible statistics that the 3rd vote was done by TownCop."
#171: "[in response to #170] TownCop even stated he was doing it to pressure Toto."
#171: "TownCop may be scum and was hoping some new townie would hammer Toto." - small distancing tactic, likely would come back to this as defense if (when) TC turned scum
#171: "Toto did a brutal job of trying to defend himself and had votes flying everywhere and settled on TownCop."
#174: "The fact that Spy/Gideon instantly switched their votes/opinions based on the above reasoning is quite ridiculous IMO." - continued defense of TC

To me, this last part is most telling - he has put a ton of posts into defending TownCop, who also acts very scummish by throwing random accusations everywhere. At this point, I have a very strong feeling that one scum is SmoothBlue, and the other is TownCop. Since there seems to be more support for a SmoothBlue lynch at this point, and in the interest of progress, I vote him.

VOTE: SmoothBlue
(wouldn't want this post to be too far from my normal, right?)

So in 237, you see no reason to vote him, but in 292, you vote to put him at L-1, with the large majority of your reasoning happened before you said there was no reason to vote him. Why was there "no reason" before? It seems like you're being blatantly opportunistic, voting on the main wagon because it's closest to lynch and looking for reasons after the fact.

[copper223]

Seems solid.

VOTE: Gideon

[Toto]

That's L-1

. Gideon, we need a claim.

Also make sure you answer questions.

[Toto]

I don't like this. I have a gut feeling Gideon is town. I won't hammer.

[Huntress]

Vote Count 1.13

Gideon (4) - TownCop, Human Sequencer, ChaosOmega, copper223 [L-1]
SmoothBlue (1) - Gideon
Toto (1) - FrankJaeger
ChaosOmega (1) - SpyreX

Not voting (2) - SmoothBlue, Toto


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

Deadline for Day One is Saturday, 15th October 8pm BST, (in (expired on 2016-10-15 20:00:00)).

[SpyreX]

I'll wait for the discussion. I'm not excited about this, but we don't have enough time for me to dissect the new slot.

I will hammer before i let this go to no lynch

[Gideon]

OK I didn't have internet all afternoon, sorry. Posting now.

[SmoothBlue]

do you still feel like the TC wagon was questionable?

Yes, I felt he was wrongly accused.

[SmoothBlue]

The problem is SB was objectively scummy, it seems likely that he is the tracker based on the thread reactions.

I never play mafia, as town, based on my role. Because, I'm town and I'm looking to find scum in either case.
Tracker will just give me more information the longer I live.

I wasn't purposely trying to be scummy, that is just how you all read it.



PS: If there is a doctor, I'm guessing he should be trying to save me come night 1.

[SmoothBlue]

I'm scumhunting based on how people are acting individually. Could you please stop hunting by association?

This is what we all should be doing right now. Once we find 1 scum, then we can look for association.

[SmoothBlue]

I will hammer before i let this go to no lynch

We still have a couple days, why so eager?

[SpyreX]

See its things like this.

Why would you pull that out of the full context of what i said?

Especially when in full context it is in contrast to what toto said.

[Gideon]

1) Why did you say towncop was ‘throwing accusations everywhere when in fact he was only accusing YOU?

Immediately after he was accused, in #197, he posted this:
"Current reads:
Copper: Towny
HS: Slightly Town
Toto: Slightly Town
Jason: Slightly Town
Spy: Slightly Town
SB: Slightly Scummy
Gideon: Scummy
Frank: Null"

Basically calling 6 people less than town.

2) How do you reconcile that 'the most accusations seem to have come from Toto and TownCop' and next you say 'Before TownCop was accused, he was rather quiet and uninterested in scum hunting'. So he was throwing accusations everywhere, but at the same time he was uninterested in scumhunting?

I meant that in #197 he started being all investigative but before then he would just accuse people of being town/scum without reasons. "Copper seems quite town," "I'd like to see how Toto reacts under pressure," "Gideon does seem quite scummy to me. Constantly changing votes without sufficient reason and just "agreeing" with HS (& spy) to place me at L-1." I guess this is a weaker point.

3) How long have you been playing mafia and where?

I've played Town of Salem, so I thought I knew how guilty people act... much faster pace there, I guess.

I think I was asked for a claim, so here it is; I'm a vanilla townie. Please, don't worst-case-scenario me, use this vote on somebody who's harmful.