Mini Normal 1848 — Game Over!

[copper223]

Right I saw you said it can be scum, but I disagreed with you and felt it was a scummy post.

saying you will unvote when he gets to l-1 is bad play imo. It takes pressure off someone people are scum reading and also makes you seem like you weren't really committed to it. If that's the case why are you on it to begin with?

Oh yeah that's bad.

The over explanation about scum being can be lynch baity makes it bad. Scum can't be lynch bait

This needs a flip. Should I vote?

Heads

VOTE: copper

You are flip flopping, your main accusation when you voted me was that lynchbait can't be scum and

that

is what makes my post bad.

Now you are saying that you understood me when I said lynchbait can be scum, but you disagree (there is nothing to agree or disagree on, I am stating a fact about what a term means), so in your mind us disagreeing on how to use a term makes you want to flip me?

As I explained once already I wanted to keep the pressure on (and that worked fine given Creeps later posted he was so scared of getting lynched he was afraid to comment) but also warn the rest of town that Creeps was already at L-2 and that I did not consider it appropriate to lynch him at that time (because of the considerations I already made), something that was very relevant since soon after ThinkBig declined to vote Creeps to avoid putting him at L-1.

If you believe the town is supposed to town-read you for "admitting" you have no reads (which is by no means a given), that makes your statement about having no reads NAI at best by the way.

[TwoFace]

That's not flip floppy. That's literally the exact same thing.

[copper223]

What part of:

Lynchbait can't be scum, so copper saying so means he is likely scum and I am going to vote him.

AND

copper says Creeps is lynchbait (which is a playstyle comment and he can be either scum or town) but I disagree on how he is using that term.

looks in any way

literally

the same to you?

[TwoFace]

You obviously misread my posts.

"Right I saw you said it can be scum, but I disagreed with you"

Is the exact same as

"Scum can't be lynch bait"

[copper223]

I did not misread anything.

If you believe I genuinely use the term the way I define it (which is the correct way), your reason for voting me which I bolded is pure bullshit.

The only way that vote accusation makes sense is if you a) don't understand what the term means and b) think I suffer from the same misunderstanding that lynchbait can only be town so me using it in that context is a slip that I know Creep's alignment.

You later admitting that you understood me the first time makes assumption b) false by definition.

[MortFeld]

What a dumb semantic argument. No matter what you meant by lynchbait, what good does it do to pressure lynchbait? They'll just do more scummy things. I don't see anyone defending Creeps...

[copper223]

@TF
What's your HS read?

[TwoFace]

What a dumb semantic argument.

I agree.

[TwoFace]

@TF
What's your HS read?

Kind of scummy

[copper223]

What a dumb semantic argument. No matter what you meant by lynchbait, what good does it do to pressure lynchbait? They'll just do more scummy things. I don't see anyone defending Creeps...

That is about the reason TF stated for voting me and whether it can be considered genuine or not given his stated beliefs, why are you calling it semantics and going on an unrelated tangent?

There is a qualitative difference between the kind of scummy things you see from town and scum, because scum has hidden knowledge and the more they are nervous and the more content you make them produce the more it's likely part of that knowledge is going to seep into their posting, pretty much regardless of their play-style.

[MortFeld]

There is a qualitative difference between the kind of scummy things you see from town and scum, because scum has hidden knowledge and the more they are nervous and the more content you make them produce the more it's likely part of that knowledge is going to seep into their posting, pretty much regardless of their play-style.

By the same token, it's easy for scum to pressure weak players and jump on their responses as scummy. I'm not convinced.

[TwoFace]

You obviously misread my posts.

"Right I saw you said it can be scum, but I disagreed with you"

Is the exact same as

"Scum can't be lynch bait"

[MortFeld]

By the same token referring to the 'token' of qualitative differences between responses to pressure.

[copper223]

By the same token, it's easy for scum to pressure weak players and jump on their responses as scummy. I'm not convinced.

I am not here to convince you, I am here to find scum and the players that jumped on this nonsense while constantly shifting the reasons for why I might be doing something as scum to fit their narrative are prime suspects.

[Toto]

We can do several claims in one day if necessary

I don't like this. Making several people claim only narrows down the pool for scum to find the PRs.

[MortFeld]

Thinkbig, why did you vote for Copper?

[copper223]

VOTE: Mort

It's a toss-up but I believe it's more likely for TF to be a VI that doesn't get the difference between bad (in his mind) and scum, as opposed to Mort misreading what to me looks like a pretty obvious statement about lynchbaits, they could also both be scum but that seems less likely.

Also instead of re-examining your read after stating you had misunderstood Mort, you try to find new avenues of attack and that smacks of scum sticking to their read.

[MortFeld]

In 198 I said that you were voting someone you thought was town, and that you were planning on unvoting if Creeps got to L-1. This gave me the overall impression that your vote served no purpose. I still believe this - you can contest the factual accuracy but not accuse me of coming up with new avenues of attack in posts like 230 which support that. Besides, I even stated in 185 that my vote on you wasn't just because of that one post.

Look at your own ISO. Before I voted you, what had you done other than defend Misa and give iioa? And so far all I'm getting from your response to the pressure is an advanced OMGUS.

Fixed. - MOD

[MortFeld]

Jesus that's the second time I've done vote instead of post. KEY CAN YOU FIX PLS

[MortFeld]

In 198 I said that you were voting someone you thought was town, and that you were planning on unvoting if Creeps got to L-1. This gave me the overall impression that your vote served no purpose. I still believe this - you can contest the factual accuracy but not accuse me of coming up with new avenues of attack in posts like 230 which support that. Besides, I even stated in 185 that my vote on you wasn't just because of that one post.

Look at your own ISO. Before I voted you, what had you done other than defend Misa and give iioa? And so far all I'm getting from your response to the pressure is an advanced OMGUS.

EBWOP

[Toto]

I did a one pass through the thread. I'll try to dig deeper later.

I don't like Misa the most so far.

I'm having a hard time thinking of some players as scum because I've played with like 1/2 of you and you were town in my previous game. (Copper, HS, Uzi, Naomi). I'm not allowed to talk about my other game with 2face I think. So I'm suspecting the new-to-me players the most now which is probably a bit dumb.

Creeps is also acting weird. The 'enraged' reaction of Misa to creeps could indicate an early fake bus to distract us.

If Creeps is scum it makes ThinkBig a bit more suspicious in my view due to 'derailing' the Creeps wagon to Misa. But since I suspect Misa too I think he is most likely town.

[Toto]

VOTE: Misa

[copper223]

@Mort
Regardless of your belief that my vote did not serve much of a purpose, although that is pretty hard to maintain given Creep's reaction, a giant part of the accusation behind your initial case just vanished and you didn't seem to care about it.

230 is abnormal because you enter the discussion about whether TF had a good reason to vote for me, discredit it without explaining why, and then proceed to go on an unrelated point that has nothing to do with what you are discrediting (but sure is tangentially related to your accusation that my Creeps vote was pointless after I stated I would unvote, something to which I replied twice now).

You then fail to tell me why you did so and just ignore that part to continue with 235 and that's why I say you are more interested in new lines of attack as opposed to figuring me out.

[MortFeld]

235 was meant to show that whether or not scum lynchbait's reaction to pressure is qualitatively different than town lynchbait's, from my perspective Creeps' reaction could be town and you could have been pressuring him knowing he'd react scummily to jump on it.

[Toto]

TB can I see a preliminary readslist? I can explain why I want one from you specifically but I'd rather see it first.

Sure.

Town Reads

1. MortFeld
2. Lil Uzi Vert
3. Naomi-Tan

Scum Reads

1. Copper223
2. HS (I don't like how he asked Drone a question when he hasn't confirmed/posted yet. If he flips scum, it is possible that Drone is his buddy).

On an unrelated note, ChaosOmega and Toto need to get in the game. Mod, can you please prod them?

Wait, what happened to Misa? you were voting him befoe.