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[keyenpeydee]

Vote Count

VOTE COUNT 1.19

[1] Road Kamelot - ChaosOmega,
[0] ThinkBig -
[0] Toto -
[0] Nero Cain -
[0] Drone -
[1] DeathByWobbuffet - TwoFace,
[3] Human Sequencer - Toto, Mortfeld, Drone,
[0] MortFeld -
[0] Lil Uzi Vert -
[0] TwoFace -
[0] Naomi-Tan -
[0] ChaosOmega -
[1] Creeps20 - Road Kamelot,

Not Voting

- Nero Cain, ThinkBig, Lil Uzi Vert, Human Sequencer, Naomi-Tan, Creeps20, DeathByWobbuffet,

MOD NOTES:

Keep everything cool and enjoyable

With

13

Alive, it takes

7

to lynch. Day One will end in

(expired on 2016-11-18 10:00:00)

[Drone]

Spoiler:

Drone, stop defending me. I can do that myself.

You should give that another look. There's no way I could test his V/LA as you seem to imply I was doing in your second line and also miss the V/LA as you believe I do in the first line.

TwoFace, please link me right now to where you already discussed your view on Copper. I can't find it.
Regardless, what incentive does scumCopper have to do that?

Drone worries me. I'll explain why later, if it becomes relevant. I'm just signposting this now so it doesn't look like I'm talking out of my ass later on.

I'm still not sure on TwoFace. I don't think pressurizing him will really get us anywhere, and I don't think lynching him is a good idea.
For the record, I still read him pretty neutral.

We really need others to weigh in. People like Chaos, Naomi, Loli and Misa.
TB is of course V/LA.

VOTE: TwoFace

Then they unvote and w/e comes next, is happening now.

[TwoFace]

They're also trying to get Mort lynched for something that was pretty clearly a mistake

Blatant lie

[Human Sequencer]

They seem to be getting overly defensive whenever anyone makes any kind of accusation about them.

I don't think this is a scumtell. I think it's just TwoFace's personality. NAI at best.

[Drone]

It is a scum tell though. Being overly defensive over any accusation hints that one has something to hide.

[TwoFace]

It is a scum tell though. Being overly defensive over any accusation hints that one has something to hide.

Not true at all. Town are defensive just as much if not more so. If somebody lies about you, your natural reaction is to object and defend yourself.

[TwoFace]

And on this site and every other site I've played being defensive is nai. If you honestly think it's scummy or a scum tell you need to seriously throw that idea out of you're head.

[Naomi-Tan]

And on this site and every other site I've played being defensive is nai. If you honestly think it's scummy or a scum tell you need to seriously throw that idea out of you're head.

there is a reason i make my second post explaining that its not a red tell for me... it is kinda a thing

[Drone]

I do indeed think that, but there's a lot thing called "circumstances" which you need to consider.
In your cases, from what I've seen. It's NAI. Otherwise I would have voted you long ago.

Not sure where you learned that it's towny and town are prone to be much more defensive than scum. It's just not right.
In fact, good town players tend to have comebacks, which is a different thing.

[Drone]

Scratch the "lot".

[TwoFace]

I do indeed think that, but there's a lot thing called "circumstances" which you need to consider.
In your cases, from what I've seen. It's NAI. Otherwise I would have voted you long ago.

Not sure where you learned that it's towny and town are prone to be much more defensive than scum. It's just not right.
In fact, good town players tend to have comebacks, which is a different thing.

I learned that cause I do it as town. Ive seen othersdo it as town. I've seen town mislynched a bazillion times for it. If I had the time I could probably find 50 examples of town being called defensive or overly defensive.

It's human nature to defend yourself when wrongfully accused. I'm sorry you can't grasp that concept if you are indeed town. You'll be a much better player once you drop that kind of thinking.

[Human Sequencer]

Read my post 807.
It wasn't my human nature to immaturely snap back at my accusers. I logically explained my perspective and laid bare what I thought at the time.

No antagonism.

[Drone]

I do indeed think that, but there's a lot thing called "circumstances" which you need to consider.
In your cases, from what I've seen. It's NAI. Otherwise I would have voted you long ago.

Not sure where you learned that it's towny and town are prone to be much more defensive than scum. It's just not right.
In fact, good town players tend to have comebacks, which is a different thing.

I learned that cause I do it as town. Ive seen othersdo it as town. I've seen town mislynched a bazillion times for it. If I had the time I could probably find 50 examples of town being called defensive or overly defensive.

It's human nature to defend yourself when wrongfully accused. I'm sorry you can't grasp that concept if you are indeed town. You'll be a much better player once you drop that kind of thinking.

Lol.
This guy.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@

Mort:

I think HS may be using his lack of understanding of what constitutes a policy lynch to push scum motivations.

There is no reason for town to do what he did and I'm struggling as to whether he's truly just inexperienced as in he doesn't understand why role fishing is something one as town should never do or scum playing the too scummy to scum card

Either way, I'm fine with an HS lynch at this point.

VOTE: HS

@

Kamelot:

Why did you vote for Creeps after admitting that you haven't really read the thread? Why did you feel your reads were crap after attempting to reread?

[Human Sequencer]

A policy lynch is a lynch on policy instead of player read, isn't it?

And this is my second game, as I said a while ago.
I wasn't aware at the time, because in my first game both roles were hardclaimed D1 (and town went on to win!), but I'll take that knowledge (role fishing=bad for town) and put it in my databanks for next game.

It's obvious why in hindsight. Sorry about that.

[ChaosOmega]

Yeah, I was in the first game with HS. I was scum and thought they were doctor with how they were looking for PRs. I get role-fishing is bad and makes you look scummy, but I don't think it's a scumtell in this case.

[Creeps20]

VOTE: HS
I think everyone has replacements

[Toto]

I think it's silly to imply that I suggested this as scum knowing that Creeps has softclaimed to try and nab the role.

Yes, this is why I'm worried that you lied about knowing that creeps had soft-claimed. Only scum has motivation to lie in this case. Perhaps you thought not many people had noticed.

So the only options left are HS is Town and either knew Creeps' softclaim or didn't know Creeps' softclaim, or HS is scum and didn't know Creeps' softclaim.

...or scum!HS did know about the claim but pretended not to know.

There is also the fact that you were role-fishing and also voted someone you were town-reading before. As Chaos points out, this could be just inexperienced town but, again, it could also be inexperienced scum. The motivation for these plays here are more likely to come from scum.

I'm actually more worried about the potential lie. I could see the rest as town misplay.

If I'm lynched today let it be known that I very strongly townread TF, strongly townread Uzi and Mort and that my main suspects at this time are ThinkBig and Misa's slot.

I don't see the scum motivation here unless you want to create post flip associations. Can you explain your reads?

[MortFeld]

A policy lynch is a lynch on policy instead of player read, isn't it?

Yes, none of what I'm saying is disputing that Creeps is a policy lynch. Let me lay out what I'm saying:

-According to you, you pushed lynching Creeps as an alternative to lynching TF because you thought a policy lynch was inevitable and Creeps was more likely to be scum.
-This would be the town motivation for the push - there are numerous plausible scum motivations. If both sides are equally plausible the push was NAI.
-Your stated town motivation makes absolutely no sense. Even if a policy lynch was inevitable, it was a policy lynch

of TF

. Introducing Creeps as an alternative does nothing about the TF policy lynch; it's a completely different discussion. You're not explaining this part. How does saying 'Policy lynch Creeps instead!' convince people not to PL TF?
-Granted, even if this is explained, there are a number of other issues with the play. Also, the scum case makes way more sense than the town still. Creeps had softclaimed (though you claim to not have noticed and I kind of believe you?), Creeps is nowhere near a reasonable PL in my mind (he's new and bad, but he's not ruining the game. There are 3 scum), and you then voted TF 'once a policy lynch became inevitable.' Huh? You thought TF was town. Why would you ever vote a townie? And your vote took it to L-2, I'd hardly call L-3 inevitable but L-2 is getting there.

This sums up why I think your part in the PL wagon was scummy.

Pedit: yeah I'm curious about anyone's reasoning for strongly TRing LUV at this point.

[MortFeld]

So actually some of what I'm saying is disputing that Creeps is a PL, I should have said: I'm not disputing that when you said PL, you meant PL as intended.

[Human Sequencer]

...or scum!HS did know about the claim but pretended not to know.

Well, that was the crux of my post. That would be just stupid for scumHS to do, and I'd like to think I'm misguided at worst, as opposed to stupid.

Spoiler: Replying to Toto and explaining reads

If I'm lynched today let it be known that I very strongly townread TF, strongly townread Uzi and Mort and that my main suspects at this time are ThinkBig and Misa's slot.

I don't see the scum motivation here unless you want to create post flip associations. Can you explain your reads?

TF

is just too flippant and noncaring to be scum. I think he'd put even just a little more effort in as scum, as opposed to what he's doing in this game. VI read through and through. (I don't mean to offend)

Uzi

is reading very genuine to me, and every time he posts he has something valid to say. It reads to me as if he's really posting what he thinks and not holding anything back. It's worth noting he was the first one to pin Misa's ragepost as fake, though TF did recognise it as 'unnecessary'. Mostly it's just the fact that his reads just are how they are, and he doesn't window dress them.

Mort

, again, genuine. I feel like the way his playstyle adapted after his conflict with Copper was very organic, and especially lately in the game he's been trying to gamesolve pretty much every post.

TB

hasn't acted consistently. Her posts are very 'safe'. Her post 169 is the first red flag for me, in which she sheeps Uzi's perspective after realizing that it's town accepted (Uzi sure didn't get any flak for that opinion) and then goes on to poke holes in a pincushion which town can and did all agree was playing scummy as hell. This is an easy way to look like you're gamesolving when you're not.

What really pricked me up is when Mort pointed out post 373. Here, TB explains that she chose to vote Copper in her earlier post because copper 'Twisted the Lynchbait discussion'. Now what we've all established is that the lynchbait discussion actually happened about 15 posts after TB's vote, but what really struck me is that in that same post TB chooses to agree with Copper on the lynchbait discussion.

Sorry copper. Scum can't be lynchbait cause the goal is to lynch scum.

This is objectively false.

There's also the inconsistencies between her vote and readslists, which has already been talked about. Again, I didn't come to this conclusion by myself, it was bought to my attention by Mort I think it was?
She then V/LAs for 300 posts.

Misa

is a new player-- She's only played two newbies before this one. The chance that new players replace out of scum slots is far higher than new players replacing out of town slots. Normally this wouldn't be enough for me, but she was town in both of those games and beyond that, she hasn't exactly acted completely cleanly in thread. A lot of her early posts read manufactured and fake to me, not only the allcaps one. Furthermore, her last post was on the 6th, so I don't think it's unlikely that she came back around about the time when we were all posting readslists, a lot of which she showed up red on. I think this would be enough to scare a budding scum away.

TB is far higher on the scumlist than Misa for me, though.

@Mort You're right, it is a completely different discussion, but in my mind it wasn't a discussion, it was just the smarter move. I thought that if I laid my logic bare, everybody else would agree with me that Creeps is the better policy lynch to make. Obviously it was dumb, but I didn't think through the mindset of everybody who was trying to PL twoface. I was playing fast and loose and now I'm paying the price.

I might go to sleep any time now, and I don't doubt there's at least one other person who suspects me enough to put me on L-1 and ask me to claim while I'm away. In the interests of keeping the game moving in that happenstance,

I'm claiming Vanilla Townie.

[Road Kamelot]

@

Kamelot:

Why did you vote for Creeps after admitting that you haven't really read the thread? Why did you feel your reads were crap after attempting to reread?

I havent reread yet i was saying that i dont usually get good reads from rereading i need to talk to people not read after the fact
I voted for creeps bc i wanted to test what Mort said
was disappointed :P

[MortFeld]

After that post HS is looking town with a number of anti-town actions. Gonna set down the game and look at it again later.

Pedit: @Road, what type of reaction were you looking for?

[Road Kamelot]

A policy lynch is a lynch on policy instead of player read, isn't it?

Yes, none of what I'm saying is disputing that Creeps is a policy lynch. Let me lay out what I'm saying:

-According to you, you pushed lynching Creeps as an alternative to lynching TF because you thought a policy lynch was inevitable and Creeps was more likely to be scum.
-This would be the town motivation for the push - there are numerous plausible scum motivations. If both sides are equally plausible the push was NAI.
-Your stated town motivation makes absolutely no sense. Even if a policy lynch was inevitable, it was a policy lynch

of TF

. Introducing Creeps as an alternative does nothing about the TF policy lynch; it's a completely different discussion. You're not explaining this part. How does saying 'Policy lynch Creeps instead!' convince people not to PL TF?
-Granted, even if this is explained, there are a number of other issues with the play. Also, the scum case makes way more sense than the town still. Creeps had softclaimed (though you claim to not have noticed and I kind of believe you?), Creeps is nowhere near a reasonable PL in my mind (he's new and bad, but he's not ruining the game. There are 3 scum), and you then voted TF 'once a policy lynch became inevitable.' Huh? You thought TF was town. Why would you ever vote a townie? And your vote took it to L-2, I'd hardly call L-3 inevitable but L-2 is getting there.

This sums up why I think your part in the PL wagon was scummy.

Pedit: yeah I'm curious about anyone's reasoning for strongly TRing LUV at this point.

This sums up why HS is town

I cant see it any other way and HS is also the only player ive ISOed so im caught up there

[MortFeld]

A policy lynch is a lynch on policy instead of player read, isn't it?

Yes, none of what I'm saying is disputing that Creeps is a policy lynch. Let me lay out what I'm saying:

-According to you, you pushed lynching Creeps as an alternative to lynching TF because you thought a policy lynch was inevitable and Creeps was more likely to be scum.
-This would be the town motivation for the push - there are numerous plausible scum motivations. If both sides are equally plausible the push was NAI.
-Your stated town motivation makes absolutely no sense. Even if a policy lynch was inevitable, it was a policy lynch

of TF

. Introducing Creeps as an alternative does nothing about the TF policy lynch; it's a completely different discussion. You're not explaining this part. How does saying 'Policy lynch Creeps instead!' convince people not to PL TF?
-Granted, even if this is explained, there are a number of other issues with the play. Also, the scum case makes way more sense than the town still. Creeps had softclaimed (though you claim to not have noticed and I kind of believe you?), Creeps is nowhere near a reasonable PL in my mind (he's new and bad, but he's not ruining the game. There are 3 scum), and you then voted TF 'once a policy lynch became inevitable.' Huh? You thought TF was town. Why would you ever vote a townie? And your vote took it to L-2, I'd hardly call L-3 inevitable but L-2 is getting there.

This sums up why I think your part in the PL wagon was scummy.

Pedit: yeah I'm curious about anyone's reasoning for strongly TRing LUV at this point.

This sums up why HS is town

I cant see it any other way and HS is also the only player ive ISOed so im caught up there

The other way I can see it is if HS and TF are scum buddies.