Mini Normal 1848 — Game Over!

[MortFeld]

That response to TF does not look Green. I feel like the question was a trap, that you fell into? Like, I thought I understood your 180 on me both times but after that I don't.

And yeah Wobbu has a history this game of selective reading to misreps.

Theory question: if I think one person is more likely Red than another, but the second person's flip gives me more info than the first person's, which is a better lynch?

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Theory question: if I think one person is more likely Red than another, but the second person's flip gives me more info than the first person's, which is a better lynch?

It really depends on whether or not it's early in the game or not in my opinion. If it's still n1 or n2 then town can probably afford to infolynch someone.

[MortFeld]

Well you're incentivized to say that because you're the more likely Red person.

Important thing that needs its own post: Wobbu, can I see your reads?

Still curious.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Weird vote.

Okay... So... Mort has been on every major lynch wagon of the game and has never had any vote down time once it went up... This says to me that they are Red! they have never questioned enough to unvote and freeze in limbo and its been a long while. (EDIT: Okay so while reading though some stuff generating this post he HAS has vote downtime just not enough to register to a vote count)

Why is this Red? Like, why is it Red! motivated to be on wagons? Also, I question all the time. At the moment I'm still questioning my vote on HS.

Well one or two wagons would be fine... but your on ALL the major wagons... which is kinda a red! tell for me. as You'd think you'd oppose some of the major wagons... but you kinda been on a few of them. Why make effort making your own wagons when you can jump onto someone elses.

Can you elaborate on why this is a scum tell for you? I find that a lot of people believe not being on the majority of the major wagons in a game is a scum tell as opposed to the opposite. I don't feel Mort has been bandwagoning and I think him being on a majority of all the wagons this game is more of a play style thing. The only odd thing has been the votes for Misa but that's not really AI.

Also why single out Mort for this? Several players haven't started any wagons this game, myself included.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

That response to TF does not look Green. I feel like the question was a trap, that you fell into? Like, I thought I understood your 180 on me both times but after that I don't.

And yeah Wobbu has a history this game of selective reading to misreps.

Theory question: if I think one person is more likely Red than another, but the second person's flip gives me more info than the first person's, which is a better lynch?

I don't really like this question. All lynches are information lynches in my opinion.

[MortFeld]

I agree. I didn't say lynching Wobbu gives no information, I just think lynching HS gives more.

[TwoFace]

That's probably due to the fact that wobbuffet isn't really doing anything. HS was posting a lot.

[MortFeld]

Also I didn't mention this in response to Naomi's accusation originally, but while this is my second game on this site, I've played 7 games on a different site. On that site the meta is extremely safe and people tend to vote like Naomi does; only when they have a confident read. This leads to unfun games, in my opinion, and also often hurts Green since Red will park votes, with reasoning, and avoid suspicion as Green v Green debates over votes consume the DP. I feel like my style moves attention from place to place, forcing people to explain their actions, and I'd like to imagine it's scary for Red players.

[Naomi-Tan]

Can you elaborate on why this is a scum tell for you? I find that a lot of people believe not being on the majority of the major wagons in a game is a scum tell as opposed to the opposite. I don't feel Mort has been bandwagoning and I think him being on a majority of all the wagons this game is more of a play style thing. The only odd thing has been the votes for Misa but that's not really AI.

Also why single out Mort for this? Several players haven't started any wagons this game, myself included.

he has started new wagons. my issue is he was on every wagon. like as a red you wanna get a lynch and the one person who they didn't push they been really buddy buddy with.. which looks like red!patterns.

[MortFeld]

So the issue isn't that I've been on every wagon, it's that I've been on every wagon

except

TF's?

[Naomi-Tan]

Also I didn't mention this in response to Naomi's accusation originally, but while this is my second game on this site, I've played 7 games on a different site. On that site the meta is extremely safe and people tend to vote like Naomi does; only when they have a confident read. This leads to unfun games, in my opinion, and also often hurts Green since Red will park votes, with reasoning, and avoid suspicion as Green v Green debates over votes consume the DP. I feel like my style moves attention from place to place, forcing people to explain their actions, and I'd like to imagine it's scary for Red players.

nah its a pretty good strat.

My post to TF was designed to be over the top. I was making a big deal out of it so that he knew that if this was a reaction test there is 100% no chance that If I was red it was an honest answer. So he knew that would be my green reaction regardless of my current alignment to help him going forward.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Can you elaborate on why this is a scum tell for you? I find that a lot of people believe not being on the majority of the major wagons in a game is a scum tell as opposed to the opposite. I don't feel Mort has been bandwagoning and I think him being on a majority of all the wagons this game is more of a play style thing. The only odd thing has been the votes for Misa but that's not really AI.

Also why single out Mort for this? Several players haven't started any wagons this game, myself included.

he has started new wagons. my issue is he was on every wagon. like as a red you wanna get a lynch and the one person who they didn't push they been really buddy buddy with.. which looks like red!patterns.

I wouldn't describe their relationship at least this game to be buddy buddy, more like they've learned to tolerate one another.

It seems like you have a problem with the TF wagon not going through and/or Mort not being on it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

pedit: Ninja'd

[MortFeld]

Ok, I'm able to actually read the answer to TF now, since it's one very long sentence and hard to understand. Basically, you have soured on interacting with TF at all? So your answer was basically a non-answer, that being:
if Naomi is Green, what she did is Green play. If Naomi is Red, she is lying and it doesn't matter.

Is this accurate? I still don't see why you reacted like that. TF's question wasn't even a good question, as time goes on of course you're going to change your reads, and I've been a volatile player.

This isn't really a Red! tell though, if I take your tendency to be overly defensive regardless of alignment at face value. All I'm saying is, from where I am, there was an opportunity to just say 'That question is dumb and probably a bad reaction test' and instead, you had a very weird, windy WIFOM reaction.

[Toto]

this statement is also WIFOM. your welcome.

This made me lol.

This is a bit too much even for Naomi. I have a hard time

literally

reading her all the time though.

[Toto]

To expand on the fair vote comment - I agree that scum might play the way I am playing, inadvertently. Perhaps my reads list would help you believe I do have an idea of how the game is progressing?

I'm working with:

{

Creeps, Toto, Drone, LUV, TF

}
{Chaos, Naomi, Nero}
{

Road, TB

}
{

Wobbu, HS

}


Pedit: Yes... Road asking for a tl;dr was the reason I posted the reads list. You said that the Misa slot was AFK at the time I posted that, which is not true. I didn't say that asking for the list was my reason for SRing the Misa slot - those reasons were explained in the post.

Wobbu is town.

[MortFeld]

The extent to which Naomi seems to be hating this particular game could factor into that.

Pedit: I'm keeping an open mind but Wobbu is not doing an amazing job of acting Green.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

To expand on the fair vote comment - I agree that scum might play the way I am playing, inadvertently. Perhaps my reads list would help you believe I do have an idea of how the game is progressing?

I'm working with:

{

Creeps, Toto, Drone, LUV, TF

}
{Chaos, Naomi, Nero}
{

Road, TB

}
{

Wobbu, HS

}


Pedit: Yes... Road asking for a tl;dr was the reason I posted the reads list. You said that the Misa slot was AFK at the time I posted that, which is not true. I didn't say that asking for the list was my reason for SRing the Misa slot - those reasons were explained in the post.

Wobbu is town.

Why?

[Toto]

Wobbu is town.

Why?

I had a slight town read on copper. I understand why some people read Copper as scum, I think it's his personality. I had a scum read on him a large part of my newbie, but he ended up as town.

And this:

That was my reason. Make of it what you will. I'm not going to go and make up another reason just to make myself look less scummy. I've already unlynched them after being told that my reasoning was bad (I agree that it wasn't all that solid).

Wobbuffet what previous experience you have playing mafia?

I've played a lot of chat mafia on a different site.

This reads very honest to me by the way.

[Toto]

Wobbu is town.

Why?

I had a slight town read on copper. I understand why some people read Copper as scum, I think it's his personality. I had a scum read on him a large part of my newbie, but he ended up as town.

And this:

That was my reason. Make of it what you will. I'm not going to go and make up another reason just to make myself look less scummy. I've already unlynched them after being told that my reasoning was bad (I agree that it wasn't all that solid).

Wobbuffet what previous experience you have playing mafia?

I've played a lot of chat mafia on a different site.

This reads very honest to me by the way.

[Toto]

Like, he could have played the newbie card but he didn't.

[Naomi-Tan]

It seems like you have a problem with the TF wagon not going through and/or Mort not being on it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

urgh.. I feel I may be bashing my head into a wall here.. but no I find that they been on every leading wagon bar one (even when some wagons was coexisting in the first two wagons) and there being enough of a connection between TF and mort to call it a possibility that they are red buddies a problem.. I don't mind that TF wagon died. I was one of the many that unvoted the slot the moment the GM said they'd get replaced.

PEDIT:
UNVOTE:
You know what... This is a terrible train and the more I push it the more its clear that Its the wrong direction.. I thought by now I'd get SOME kind of reaction from mort if they was red or TF but there reaction is so muted that I think I'm just on the wrong train of thought. So.. yeah. I expect I'll take a bit of heat for this choice.. but it looked like it matched up close enough.. but there is no way a red would be this cool...

[MortFeld]

Re: Wobbu being Green bc he didn't play the newbie card
Seems NAI at best? As in, by Toto's argument, Wobbu did not respond in a way that was a Red! tell, but the reason for voting TF in the first place did not come from a reasonable Green! motivation. Seems to cancel each other out at best, though I do not think that his response was particularly Green! either. NAI response + Red! motivated vote = Red.

I really want to see what Wobbu thinks about other players beyond his dislike of TF's play. There's a reason I asked for a reads list specifically.

Pedit: Naomi, what do you think about HS and Wobbu respectively? With the disclaimer that my reason for Red! reading Wobbu is

not

simply that he voted TF, it's the way he did it.

[Naomi-Tan]

I dunno how i feel about HS.. Wobbu I don't like due to what he did to my post a while ago.

[TwoFace]

Like, he could have played the newbie card but he didn't.

But he's not a noob so he wouldn't get away with it. Plus that response could be honest and him still be scum.

[TwoFace]

Naomi looks really bad also.