Mini Normal 1848 — Game Over!

[MortFeld]

oook I guess I'll take that? I am feeling the HS train lose traction and I'm wondering why. They've been on L-2 forever.

[Toto]

Re: Wobbu being Green bc he didn't play the newbie card
Seems NAI at best? As in, by Toto's argument, Wobbu did not respond in a way that was a Red! tell, but the reason for voting TF in the first place did not come from a reasonable Green! motivation. Seems to cancel each other out at best, though I do not think that his response was particularly Green! either. NAI response + Red! motivated vote = Red.

1) He said his reasoning was bad =~ I don't have a lot of experience.
2) He answered the second question saying he has some experience in other sites. He could have said he didn't have any experience.

He kept honest.

Anyway, this is just my gut read from that interaction.

[TwoFace]

Only reason why he's not at l-1 is I've been waiting for the inactives/replacements to catch up.

[TwoFace]

He kept honest.

Scum aren't going to lie if they don't have to. At least they shouldn't.

[MortFeld]

Ah ok, that's fair.

One replacement has explicitly said that HS is town, supporting this with an argument that shows only that HS' Creeps push might be NAI (and I disagree), so there's that.

[TwoFace]

He kept honest.

Scum aren't going to lie if they don't have to. At least they shouldn't.

But we're talking about wobbuffet who's been caught lying multiple times. So how do you ignore those and say he's been honest?

[Toto]

He kept honest.

Scum aren't going to lie if they don't have to. At least they shouldn't.

But we're talking about wobbuffet who's been caught lying multiple times. So how do you ignore those and say he's been honest?

I guess I still don't understand the case. I will read again tonight.

[MortFeld]

Be forewarned that, at least in my opinion, TwoFace is exaggerating the extent to which Wobbu has misrepped certain things, but he has misrepped others for sure.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Will write up my reads now.

[TwoFace]

When you simplify it. He said that I never explained why I was scum reading his slot, which wasn't true because I provided links to my posts where I explained them. He said my reasons were vague, but they clearly weren't especially since mort and I had a page long discussion about part of it. Thirdly he said I'm trying to lynch mort and I've never even voted mort.

If people don't want to call them lies, fine but what do you call them? Mistakes? Had he read like he should have (which I'm pretty sure he still hasn't) before making such accusations, he wouldn't have made them to begin with.

His play doesn't resemble a green player who has replaced into a game and wants to help figure things out. I don't see him trying to figure anything out.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Okay so other than TF, who I'm not going to talk about here, my primary SR is probably on Creeps. Their only post here in the last few days was this.

VOTE: HS
I think everyone has replacements

All they did was hop on the HS wagon, probably so they could make themeselves look green and not get a lot of suspicion because they were basically just doing what everyone else was and didn't have to give any of their own reasoning. They haven't posted since.

That being said, I do find HS a little scummy. The town PR fishing is worrying, but to be fair I haven't found anything else that makes me really feel that they're not green, which is the reason why I haven't jumped on the bandwagon yet.

Other than that, I do suspect TB's slot. The lurking isn't even the part that makes me think that they could be red, but rather the fact that they had to get a replacement because they said that they didn't know what to do. That makes me feels as if they could be a mafia member who isn't really sure how to play and can't ask the rest of their faction because the qt is locked. I'll have to wait and see what whoever replaces them does before making my decision about this one though.

[MortFeld]

So Red is Creeps, HS, and TB. Who's Green?

[Road Kamelot]

V/LA

Wobbu aint scum, id say. Still not caught up ive been unexpectedly busy

Pedit dude he didn't call HS scum

[TwoFace]

I do get the feeling that they're a townie who's made the mistake of not justifying their scumreads and being overly defensive.

I used to TR TwoFace, but I'm not so sure anymore. They seem to be getting overly defensive whenever anyone makes any kind of accusation about them.

Can we go back to this for a second. Earlier you told chaos you were town reading me for being overdefsive. Now
You're scum reading me for the same thing? How does that work?

P.edit - wobo is definitely scum.

[MortFeld]

Wobbu aint scum, id say.

Why not? You don't find the case compelling?

Pedit dude he didn't call HS scum

Well then he only has 2 scum reads. I'm trying to be charitable.

[Road Kamelot]

The townread is off his latest post

Why are you being charitable to your scumread
How did you get that he was scumreading HS from that post anyway?? his conclusion is that theres no need to think him scum

[TwoFace]

Well then he only has 2 scum reads. I'm trying to be charitable.

No supposedly I'm scum for the same reason he was previously town reading me

[MortFeld]

How did you get that he was scumreading HS from that post anyway?? his conclusion is that theres no need to think him scum

That was literally not his conclusion. His conclusion was that only the PR fishing was Red! motivated and therefore he wasn't voting yet.

Why are you being charitable to your scumread

I'm being charitable because I think doing so is more conducive to having a discussion than yelling "RED! RED! YOU'RE RED!" I shouldn't have to explain why.

Why are you speaking for him in saying that he doesn't read HS as Red?

[MortFeld]

Well then he only has 2 scum reads. I'm trying to be charitable.

No supposedly I'm scum for the same reason he was previously town reading me

The more relevant point of info then would be that he's flip flopped regarding your alignment (he TRd you, then either threw shade or started to SR you, and now suddenly you're no longer suspicious/he refuses to talk about you for some reason?).

[Human Sequencer]

Naomi's interaction with Twoface doesn't read scummy to me.

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Well then he only has 2 scum reads. I'm trying to be charitable.

No supposedly I'm scum for the same reason he was previously town reading me

The more relevant point of info then would be that he's flip flopped regarding your alignment (he TRd you, then either threw shade or started to SR you, and now suddenly you're no longer suspicious/he refuses to talk about you for some reason?).

Uh, no. It's because you specifically asked me for my scumreads apart from TF.

[MortFeld]

I asked you for a reads list. Where did I ask you to exclude TF?

[MortFeld]

Naomi's interaction with Twoface doesn't read scummy to me.

I agree. What do you think about her vote on and interaction with me?

[Human Sequencer]

There's been a LOT of misrepping and confusion in this thread. I implore everybody to carefully check the source of their information, and all of the information they bring forth, to remove confusion and aid us in sorting the truth from the lies.

We need more posts like this and less posts like this. Being vague and confusing isn't AI, but it's incredibly difficult to follow a thread that's filled with people quoting half truths and putting forth baseless conjecture.

This goes for everybody, not just Mort and Wobbs. Toto in particular has been fucking incredible at this. I'm sorry I was so hard on you last game bro.

[Human Sequencer]

I should add, a thread that's hard to follow helps Scum more than Town.