Micro 657: Vanillite Mafia (Game Over!)

[Postie]

1st Tier Lynchpool:

ThinkBig

⁴ /

shannon

⁴
2nd Tier Lynchpool:

Aeronaut

³
Townpool:

Dark Horse

¹ /

algebra

² /

Wyvernite

²

Spoiler: Number Key

1

- I am

extremely confident

about this player being town. I would bet the game on it.

2

- I am

fairly confident

that this player is town.

3

- I consider this player to be

more likely to be town than not

.

4

- I am

not townreading

this player.

5

- I consider this player to be

scummy

.

[Dark Horse]

Not only is wyv signifigantly scummier

I'm going to have to strongly disagree here.

Wyv has been incredibly scummy and I can't believe you honestly think he hasn't been scummier than someone you think is scum just from PoE.

If we lynch him today and he flips scum:

• algebra is cleared

Algebra wouldn't be confirmed town and we're absolutely not treating algebra as such.

[*]we're left with a pool of 4 people to choose between to lynch, all of which are actively posting[/list]

See above

If we lynch him today and he flips town:

• we eliminate an unknown who was going to be lynched eventually anyway

We're probably only allowed one mislynch the entire game. I'd prefer to give us room for error in case of a mislynch.

[*]we don't have to keep get frustrated over the fact that he's not doing anything[/list]

True but that's not a good enough reason for one mislynch. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets force replaced at this rate

If we don't lynch him today:

• we'll likely have to decide whether to lynch between him or algebra tomorrow, and if we choose wrong we lose
  
• that's not a choice I trust town with please let's not go there guys

If wyv flips scum (which is what I'd suspect), then we'd have an extra mislynch. That scenario would also allow us to look at the possibility of algebra scum before a three man lylo, which sounds terrible

Wyvern should absolutely be the play today

[Dark Horse]

You have wyvern as more town than aeronaut? Yean








No

[Postie]

Algebra wouldn't be confirmed town and we're absolutely not treating algebra as such

You think algebra would decide at the beginning of the game to tunnel his partner?

[Postie]

You have wyvern as more town than aeronaut? Yean
[...]
No

If Wyvern is scum here he has zero understanding of basic scumplay and absolutely no common sense. Why isn't he trying to push through a lynch that isn't him? Why is he attacking some of the only people who stand any chance of being convinced to not lynch him?

[Dark Horse]

Algebra wouldn't be confirmed town and we're absolutely not treating algebra as such

You think algebra would decide at the beginning of the game to tunnel his partner?

Considering how noobish his play has been I honestly wouldn't past him. What's important is that were not disregarding the scummy things that he's done just because of that.

You have wyvern as more town than aeronaut? Yean
[...]
No

If Wyvern is scum here he has zero understanding of basic scumplay and absolutely no common sense. Why isn't he trying to push through a lynch that isn't him? Why is he attacking some of the only people who stand any chance of being convinced to not lynch him?

Have you not noticed that he's started push thinkbig now that you've pushed for it? Have you not notice the fact that he started disliking algebra when it looked like that would be the only viable wagon the wasn't himself. Have you motice how both of these are big twists from his "I have absolutely no read on both of them"? Have you notice that he's changed his reads compeltely, to a reads list that's more in line with what the 4 most sctive players have been thinking? There's so much of wyvern's play that you seem to be willfully ignoring to support your wyvern town theory

[Dark Horse]

Like he has done stuff that contradicts your

main points

for him being town. That's ridiculous

[Postie]

He hasn't been pushing ThinkBig though. All he's done is expressed minor suspicion of him, and the same with algebra. He has done absolutely nothing to try and make a lynch happen on either of them.

[Postie]

Considering how noobish his play has been I honestly wouldn't past him. What's important is that were not disregarding the scummy things that he's done just because of that.

There's playing like a newb, and there's playing borderline anti-wincon. No one decides at the start of the game "no matter what happens, I'm going to try and get my partner lynched on day 1 because why not".
And what has he done that's scummy?

[Dark Horse]

He hasn't been pushing ThinkBig though. All he's done is expressed minor suspicion of him, and the same with algebra. He has done absolutely nothing to try and make a lynch happen on either of them.

Because he doesn't have to. Both of the lynches of substance behind them. Especially in the case of thinkbig's lynch, there's nothing he needs to do because of how hard you're gunning for it.

Considering how noobish his play has been I honestly wouldn't past him. What's important is that were not disregarding the scummy things that he's done just because of that.

There's playing like a newb, and there's playing borderline anti-wincon. No one decides at the start of the game "no matter what happens, I'm going to try and get my partner lynched on day 1 because why not".
And what has he done that's scummy?

In addition to everything that put him in the spotlight, he's gone back to lurking while occasionally making a comment that he has no intention of following up. That's scummy as hell.

[Postie]

Because he doesn't have to. Both of the lynches of substance behind them. Especially in the case of thinkbig's lynch, there's nothing he needs to do because of how hard you're gunning for it.

That's not how things were for the vast majority of the time he was sitting on his hands and letting things happen.

In addition to everything that put him in the spotlight, he's gone back to lurking while occasionally making a comment that he has no intention of following up. That's scummy as hell.

Why?

[Dark Horse]

Because he doesn't have to. Both of the lynches of substance behind them. Especially in the case of thinkbig's lynch, there's nothing he needs to do because of how hard you're gunning for it.

That's not how things were for the vast majority of the time he was sitting on his hands and letting things happen.

Badically as soon as he got put at L-1 he comes out with a new readlist where he doesn't like algebra and is not as sure as he is with thinkbig. That's clearly self preservation. Then you started calling him town.

In addition to everything that put him in the spotlight, he's gone back to lurking while occasionally making a comment that he has no intention of following up. That's scummy as hell.

Why?[/quote]

It's shows that he's very delibarate with his lurking. He could post more (As shown by what he posted when he was at L-1), but chooses not to, as long as he's not on the spotlight.

[Dark Horse]

He actually had one post in between that, but it wasn't much. He basically abandoned his reads when he was put on the chopping block

[Postie]

Badically as soon as he got put at L-1 he comes out with a new readlist where he doesn't like algebra and is not as sure as he is with thinkbig. That's clearly self preservation.

Not if he doesn't do anything with those reads. He didn't even say he was scumreading either of them. IIRC the most we got was a FoS.

It's shows that he's very delibarate with his lurking. He could post more (As shown by what he posted when he was at L-1), but chooses not to, as long as he's not on the spotlight.

I didn't see him producing any more content at L-1? As I've already pointed out in 265, he was incredibly uncooperative at L-1.

[Postie]

He actually had one post in between that, but it wasn't much. He basically abandoned his reads when he was put on the chopping block

What? All he said at L-1 was that ThinkBig was scum, which he had already said before. That's completely consistent.

[Dark Horse]

Not if he doesn't do anything with those reads. He didn't even say he was scumreading either of them. IIRC the most we got was a FoS.

Should we be treating your scum reads lightly because they all come from process of elimination?

I didn't see him producing any more content at L-1? As I've already pointed out in 265, he was incredibly uncooperative at L-1

He started posting a lot more stuff like "I don't get why I'm scum" when people started attacking him. Then he went back to lurking

What? All he said at L-1 was that ThinkBig was scum, which he had already said before. That's completely consistent.

I was talking about wyvern

[Postie]

Should we be treating your scum reads lightly because they all come from process of elimination?

I don't know what that has to do with anything.

He started posting a lot more stuff like "I don't get why I'm scum" when people started attacking him. Then he went back to lurking

Why do you think this is scummy? If he's telling the truth about being mislynched in past games, then it makes sense as a reaction.

I was talking about wyvern

Oh, right. Again, he may have changed his reads, but he didn't push for either of them to be lynched and seemed very unsure of himself, so he got nothing out of it.

[Dark Horse]

I don't know what that has to do with anything.

Just because he hasn't explicitly said "I think they're scum" doesn't mean we shouldn't consider the fact that those are his scummiest reads. Should we ignore your read on thinkbig becuase you just have him listed as "Not Scum"?

Why do you think this is scummy? If he's telling the truth about being mislynched in past games, then it makes sense as a reaction.

Because it shows he's deliberately lurking and trying to coast

Oh, right. Again, he may have changed his reads, but he didn't push for either of them to be lynched and seemed very unsure of himself, so he got nothing out of it.

You were telling him "If you don't want to be the lynch, vote thinkbig" after he posted his reads list. What more did he have to do?

[Postie]

Just because he hasn't explicitly said "I think they're scum" doesn't mean we shouldn't consider the fact that those are his scummiest reads. Should we ignore your read on thinkbig becuase you just have him listed as "Not Scum"?

Firstly, the people I have listed as "not townreads" but "not scummy" are in fact my scumreads by PoE. Secondly, the bottom line is that

I'm pushing for them to be lynched

.

Because it shows he's deliberately lurking and trying to coast

Deliberately lurking, yes, but why does that equal coasting?

You were telling him "If you don't want to be the lynch, vote thinkbig" after he posted his reads list. What more did he have to do?

Who cares? I'm judging him off his content before that, of which there is plenty. You may also notice that he

hasn't voted ThinkBig

.

[Dark Horse]

Even if you think that wyvern hasn't been pushing his reads at all: That's even worse, as it shows that he's willing to sit back, especially now that you've tried to shift the focus of the day from him to think big. There's no need for him to do the "push for another lynch" thing that you're saying he'd do if he was scum, because pretty much immediately after he posted his reads list you started trying to shift the lynch target for the day into a different direction. Now look: he hasn't done shit, and now you've actually gotten aeronaut to believe what you're saying to, lowering the chances of him getting lynched. There's nothing he needs to do with you helping him out so much

Deliberately lurking, yes, but why does that equal coasting?

Do you not think coasting is scummy?

[Aristophanes]

VC, like, soonish

[Postie]

DH, he wasn't pushing for anyone's lynch

all the time before I started saying he was town

, which was a long time and a lot of posts. As scum he should have been doing that from the moment he replaced in, or at least within a couple of posts.

Do you not think coasting is scummy?

I'm not saying it's not scummy, I'm asking why you think deliberately lurking means he's coasting. Perhaps we're working under different definitions of coasting.

[Dark Horse]

Do you think it was townie that wyvern didn't vote either of us when he said we were scum?

I use coasting to mean "trying to have as little presence as possible by barely contributing," which is what I feel like algebra's doing.

[Postie]

Do you think it was townie that wyvern didn't vote either of us when he said we were scum?

No, but I don't think it was scummy either. What does this have to do with anything?

I use coasting to mean "trying to have as little presence as possible by barely contributing," which is what I feel like algebra's doing.

I disagree that that's what he's doing. I think he's simply sticking with his principle of only sharing "major" thoughts, and/or being lazy.

[Dark Horse]

No, but I don't think it was scummy either. What does this have to do with anything?

Because a common theme throughout wyvern's action is that he wants other people do the busy work of actually pressuring people. Do you think it was coincidence he called us scum while aeronaut was arguing with both of us? That's why he hasn't been pushing people himself

I disagree that that's what he's doing. I think he's simply sticking with his principle of only sharing "major" thoughts, and/or being lazy.[/quite]

His major thoughts sound like excuses. Especially when he doesn't do anything with some of this "major thought" (see:criticizing aero).