Mini Normal 1848 — Game Over!

[Road Kamelot]

Road, what do you think about HS' vote on you? Read 1205. They spend the entire post justifying your play for you and then at the end they vote you.

I think you were right to call it out as being strange

I sort of thought the same. what i got from that post was a lot of honesty. HS really believes this about my play. what i do think is that any self-aware scum (and imo if hs is scum he has to be at least a little self aware) wouldnt spend so long defending me only to vote me. it looks really terrible. if he wanted townpoints for defending me, he wouldnt vote me.

its not really a towny move, i simply cant see the scum motive, and in my thoughts im including the possibility of HS making a mistake there. simpler explanation is HS is being honest in that he explained my actions for me because you asked.

[Road Kamelot]

@Mort
I didn't reread closely enough, all I have to say.

VOTE: Kamelot

This vote is real suspicious to me tbh

Drones posting almost feels like an echo of HS's, but the fact that it came after makes it looks less towny
Just a really weak way to get oneself onto the wagon, and the 'all i have to say' implies that Drone doesnt really want to go into it

Id love for you to explain where the misunderstanding was Drone
Better sooner than later, if youre town, bc im likely getting flipped soon

[MortFeld]

Want to post but also want to wait.

UNVOTE: to prevent hammer.

[Toto]

I sort of thought the same. what i got from that post was a lot of honesty. HS really believes this about my play. what i do think is that any self-aware scum (and imo if hs is scum he has to be at least a little self aware) wouldnt spend so long defending me only to vote me. it looks really terrible.

You say this yet disagree that the rate of towny looking posting has gone down. If they post towny looking stuff they are obvtown, if they post scummy looking stuff they are town mistakes. What makes you so sure HS is town?

[Road Kamelot]

I sort of thought the same. what i got from that post was a lot of honesty. HS really believes this about my play. what i do think is that any self-aware scum (and imo if hs is scum he has to be at least a little self aware) wouldnt spend so long defending me only to vote me. it looks really terrible.

You say this yet disagree that the rate of towny looking posting has gone down. If they post towny looking stuff they are obvtown, if they post scummy looking stuff they are town mistakes. What makes you so sure HS is town?

I didnt mean that voting me there was a mistake
Im saying it looks bad if HS is scum

[Human Sequencer]

Kamelot, have you read over the whole game so far?

I'll respond to other stuff soon.

[MortFeld]

Eh I can just post the vast majority of what I was going to now.

Re: Creeps reaction test,

@

Kamelot:

Why did you vote for Creeps after admitting that you haven't really read the thread? Why did you feel your reads were crap after attempting to reread?

I havent reread yet i was saying that i dont usually get good reads from rereading i need to talk to people not read after the fact
I voted for creeps bc i wanted to test what Mort said
was disappointed

After the third reread I realized I misread this as you trying to test my reaction, rather than trying to test that Creeps SRs people who vote him. Which frankly was thick-skulled on my part. Sorry for that.

Re: my playstyle,
This is only my second game on the site so I'm trying stuff out. I already learned a lot from this day but I think I'll continue playing this way for the rest of the game and see how it goes. I think it is yielding good results already. For a reference point, before I joined this game I read 3 of Thor's games and his wiki page. Not that I think I'm playing anything like Thor.

in my thoughts im including the possibility of HS making a mistake there

You've said that I don't seem to acknowledge that Green players can make mistakes, but HS has made so many mistakes that it's nearly unbelievable that they are Green. Here's a list:

Spoiler:

Asked Drone what he thought about something when Drone hadn't posted yet
Asked a large number of PR-related questions that looked like PR hunting
Explicitly TRd TwoFace but then voted them 'when the lynch looked inevitable'
During the TF policy lynch push, tried to make a weird push on Creeps instead after Creeps had softclaimed, saying 'he's a better policy lynch'
Voted you after saying that our argument looked TvT

Some of these have been explained and others are NAI, but they are all mistakes. I understand how you could read HS Green just looking at the tone of their recent posts, but can you understand why other Green players might read HS Red?

I don't like this wagon right now. Road isn't doing the 'I didn't read so I'm going to accuse someone for an immediate nitpicky reason' thing anymore, and looks to be trying to solve the game. We also have a lot of time.

[Human Sequencer]

For what is worth, I think HS's might have been trying to pocket me. I didn't like the fact that they were calling me an imbecile every other post in our newbie and then here I'm suddenly their bro and an excellent player. Also why are you singling me out here?

Well, your play is magnitudes better here. You're much more thought out. It felt like in 1744 you were just doing stuff for the sake of doing stuff, and saying things for the sake of saying things. I kinda just wrote you off as VI all game and you came up town at the end.

Here you're an active player of the game. You say things for actual reasons and they're effecting the gameflow.
Besides, what do I gain from 'pocketing' you? What somebody thinks of you shouldn't influence your read of them, look at Uzi and Mort, they were proponents of my lynch but I still strongly townread them.

HS, is this true? Can both of you elaborate on this situation? its esp important bc i could def see Toto scum, but this needs to be explained

My first game, newbie 1744, Toto acted like a fool and I was really annoyed at him. I kept talking down to him all game. Here, his playstyle has evolved and he's playing a lot smarter.
This could indicate scum, but I don't have enough other evidence to support that yet.

[Human Sequencer]

But like, the playstyle switch is night and day. Surely

@ChaosOmega

can confirm this for me, he replaced into the game.

Or you could skim the game yourself.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68535

[MortFeld]

Chaos is probably getting replaced.

[Human Sequencer]

On vacation, V/LA until Monday.

Isn't it only recently monday in US?

I have faith.

[Human Sequencer]

Before you all jump on my for buddying Chaos like you did for Drone and is happening for Toto, I have faith because he pulled through in our last game and he's on the normal game review group.

[MortFeld]

Before you all jump on my for buddying Chaos like you did for Drone and is happening for Toto, I have faith because he pulled through in our last game and he's on the normal game review group.

Weird comment. Are you buddying Chaos?

[MortFeld]

I mean, obviously the answer is no. Why did you feel the need to make a pre-response like that?

[DeathByWobbuffet]

Wobbu you've posted but I still don't know who you think is Green. I don't understand why this, of all things, should be like pulling teeth.

Have your Red reads changed from 1035? What do you think about Road?

You seem pretty green to me. Everyone else, except for the ones I mentioned in my SRs post I'm not too sure about. Mostly because a lot of them haven't been too active.

Yeah, they have changed since then. I feel that HS is more likely town now. Their scumhunting when they were at L-2 feels green motivated to me. Also, the TB slot seems even more scummy. The fact that their replacement has been mostly lurking hasn't helped.

I don't particularly like Road Kamelot's reasons for lynching Mort. I feel like they were deliberately trying to for a lynch on him. I'm not going to decide on whether or not I'll vote them until we have a claim though.

[MortFeld]

I am wondering whether Wobbu's bad reads are because Wobbu is Red, because Wobbu is new, or because Wobbu isn't reading. Which is it, Wobbu?

[DeathByWobbuffet]

I am wondering whether Wobbu's bad reads are because Wobbu is Red, because Wobbu is new, or because Wobbu isn't reading. Which is it, Wobbu?

Why do you find my reads bad?

[Toto]

Yes my play has improved. Uzi could also confirm that. I played my first newbie even worst than the second one. I have played almost one other full mini and have learned a load more there.

The point is that you only switched your attitude towards me until I after I pushed your wagon. how is not that suspicious? And your playstyle has changed multiple times IN THIS game depending on your position. How do you explain that?

[Human Sequencer]

I mean, obviously the answer is no. Why did you feel the need to make a pre-response like that?

Because it seems whenever I so much as mention another player, I'm accused of buddying and a scumteam is settled...

The point is that you only switched your attitude towards me until I after I pushed your wagon. how is not that suspicious? And your playstyle has changed multiple times IN THIS game depending on your position. How do you explain that?

No I didn't. I wasn't dismissive of you this game at all. It was only when I realized your work on my wagon that I realized how much better you'd become.
It's not suspicious because what's the scum motivation?
My playstyle hasn't changed at all. That's just a lie.
UNVOTE:

[MortFeld]

Your reads are bad, Wobbu.

You seem pretty green to me. Everyone else, except for the ones I mentioned in my SRs post I'm not too sure about. Mostly because a lot of them haven't been too active.

People not mentioned with enough posts for you to form a read, in no particular order: LUV, Naomi, Toto, TwoFace, Drone. So your thoughts on them would be a start.

Yeah, they have changed since then. I feel that HS is more likely town now. Their scumhunting when they were at L-2 feels green motivated to me.

What scumhunting?

Also, the TB slot seems even more scummy. The fact that their replacement has been mostly lurking hasn't helped.

You had X read of TB. TB's replacement has made a few posts but has been absent the last two days. 1. is this lurking? 2. what do you think about Road saying Arcangel always lurks?

So the question is, why does this change your read of TB's slot to become more Red?

I don't particularly like Road Kamelot's reasons for lynching Mort. I feel like they were deliberately trying to for a lynch on him. I'm not going to decide on whether or not I'll vote them until we have a claim though.

Are you aware that Road is not at L-1 anymore? Why not vote now and put them at L-1? And have you read the posts where Road retracts their vote and explains why they played the way they did?

[MortFeld]

Ok, you'd be putting Road at L-2 now. Sort of wish HS had kept their vote on Road, but it's not a big deal.

[MortFeld]

Question stands with "Why not vote now and put them at L-2?"

[Toto]

No I didn't. I wasn't dismissive of you this game at all. It was only when I realized your work on my wagon that I realized how much better you'd become.
It's not suspicious because what's the scum motivation?

From my point of view it looks suspicious because, you know, I'm pushing your lynch and you suddenly become friendly. That's way different on how you would have reacted in the previous game.

My playstyle hasn't changed at all. That's just a lie.

Yes you have, you have become more or less bloodlusty depending on number of people on your wagon.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Nero's starting to catch up posts felt like he was trying to fake content. I don't see why he decided to post his thoughts about page 1 and reply to post a Cooper made, 40+ pages into the game. Just feels out of place and while those series of posts from Nero aren't scummy, they most certainly don't scream town.

So I should have ignored the first 40 pages? Do you not think those 40 pages were important? Like a slots alignment is going to stay the same so I mean I don't see why the first 40 pages shouldn't matter to me.

I don't see any reason to "murderball" Arc. As having played with her numerous times she's going to be lurky/inactive.

I'm not saying you should have ignored them. I just don't understand why you didn't post your thoughts on everything in one post rather then attempt to post small updates like I assumed you were doing.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm agreement with Mort here, RK looks like he's trying to actually play the game here rather than trolling or doing whatever he was doing earlier but I'd like to see more before moving my vote. I do like the point he brought up about Drone though, his vote there felt like he was just going with the flow.

@Road:

Could you explain your Toto SR? I had an early SR on him for something Namoi had said but that was when we were at like page 20.