Open 658 Making Friends and Enemies | Game Over

[Transcend]

An overreaction from scum

This tells you nothing about my alignment

[Secret Agent Jin]

Saj, that looks so much like bussing at the end there.

Its possible, the other possibility id i was scum is that i could have waited and let someone else hammer Gamma. I didnt though, i was the deciding vote and its that simple.

[Transcend]

So why did you hammer then and there?

[Secret Agent Jin]

No idea

Saj's vote was actually really weird and I'm not sure why he hammered so fast

I'll let him explain that.

I hammered because i wanted the day done. I wish i could tell you there was a complex reason behind it.

[Transcend]

Fine

Igmeoy tho

Smith's play is lacking this game and i don't exactly think mini was town. What say you?

[mhsmith0]

Smiths play has indeed been pretty lacking this game. I'm a bit curious why you think it's necessarily scum-indicative, given that there was a scum lynch on d1. Is your theory that my lack of presence was what allowed the scum lynch to go through? Or is it more a simple "eh screw it smith usually has more WIM than he's shown, therefore he's scum"?

[Creature]

If you say nothing, we can't sort you, so you could use "me lurking is NAI" as an excuse.

[Flubbernugget]

VOTE: toejam

[mhsmith0]

Sure. But inactivity is in and of itself a relatively weak case. At any rate, as noted earlier I'll be on in earnest tonight.

[Io]

Vote 2.00

So when looking for teddy bears I found my actual first teddy bear!


mhsmith0 (L-4): Creature, Transcend
BK201 (L-5): Burgerking
tojam2 (L-5): Flubbernugget

Not voting: tojam2, sad1492, Secret Agent Jin, BK201, oddmusic, mhsmith0, Dunnstral

11 players alive majority is 6.

Day ends in (expired on 2016-11-28 07:00:00)

[Secret Agent Jin]

Fine

Igmeoy tho

Smith's play is lacking this game and i don't exactly think mini was town. What say you?

I really think Smith is suspicious for ultra-lurking but there is hardly any evidence either way, scum or town. Who is on your read list right now?

[sad1492]

Actually SAJ yolo hammering like that feel fine to me. He doesn't seem like scum bussing, he's just annoyed town wanting day end.
Why Aubrey though? This kill can only point to...
VOTE: transcend
If you look closely at day 1, back when Transcend attempted a read on MariaR by actively harassing her, she was later confirmed town by him. This flip also goes to show that the interaction was scum protecting each other, under the disguise of a reaction test.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Read List based on Gamma's ISO

Town: Transcend, Burger King

Town Lean: Tojam, Dunn

Scum: Flubber

I will read up on some people more and post a better read list.

[mhsmith0]

Read List based on Gamma's ISO

Town: Transcend, Burger King

Town Lean: Tojam, Dunn

Scum: Flubber

I will read up on some people more and post a better read list.

What in particular from Gamma ISO made you think Trans/Burger town and Flubber wolf? And did you also look through MariaR for spew?

[mhsmith0]

You know

I'm not sure if I'll ever understand what the point of that night kill was

I was gonna park my vote on him, then prodge all day.

VOTE: mhsmith0

You, of all people in this game, should by now come to realize that "shitty night kill" = "smith didn't do it". So either this was a valid attempt at mason hunting that simply missed, or I didn't make the kill. If, in your mind, Aubrey had no realistic mason equity (and in your mind was a scumspect to boot), then you should presume I'd have taken a more thoughtful shot.

Arguing that I'm a wolf, AND that the kill was shitty, should in your mind not compute. Which makes me wonder why you're comfortable parking your vote on me here.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Read List based on Gamma's ISO

Town: Transcend, Burger King

Town Lean: Tojam, Dunn

Scum: Flubber

I will read up on some people more and post a better read list.

What in particular from Gamma ISO made you think Trans/Burger town and Flubber wolf? And did you also look through MariaR for spew?

Well with Trans and Burger, Gamma attacked them all throughout D1. I mean, a lot meaning to me that they are town. If they were scum, i could see Gamma soft attacking on them or voting them when a wagon started but Gamma even challenged them when there was no reason to.
For Flubber, he seems to have a few posts wherein he interacts with him but never really says too much stuff to Flubber that could be construed as buddying. Gamma also doesnt interact with Flubber too much. It looks to me like Gamma was trying to keeo his distance so that a line couldn't be drawn between them, that screams scummy to me.
I have not looked into Maria too much, who replaced her?

[mhsmith0]

Gamma replaced Maria. So that's a combined scum slot.

[Secret Agent Jin]

Gamma replaced Maria. So that's a combined scum slot.

Then that means i will have to ISO Maria

[mhsmith0]

Aubrey kill does not point to scum!me

Please go ahead and take a trip to GFYS Land.

It fairly obviously does given 990-992, the question is if it's an indication that you're a wolf or if it's a frame job. But pretending like it in no way points to you is

[mhsmith0]

I'm late, it's tired, so I've just been doing some mechanical shit

Spoiler: interactions

From MR
1) Transcend 137 306 307
2) Creature 40 64 80 84 310
3) Burgerking
4) Dunnstral Aristophanes
5) BK201
6) sad1492
9) mhsmith0 MiniDeathStar 50
10) oddmusic 69
11) Secret Agent Jin
12) Flubbernugget doomfeathers 70
13) tojam2

To MR
1) Transcend 136 138 305
2) Creature 33 65 78 309
3) Burgerking
4) Dunnstral Aristophanes
5) BK201 410
6) sad1492
9) mhsmith0 MiniDeathStar 42
10) oddmusic 66
11) Secret Agent Jin 89
12) Flubbernugget doomfeathers 68 77 79 87
13) tojam2

From Gamma
1) Transcend 645 648 675 951 952 953 955 960
2) Creature 511
3) Burgerking 518
4) Dunnstral Aristophanes 876 967
5) BK201
6) sad1492
9) mhsmith0 MiniDeathStar 538 540 936 939 941
10) oddmusic
11) Secret Agent Jin
12) Flubbernugget doomfeathers 834
13) tojam2 996

To Gamma
1) Transcend 646 649 954 958
2) Creature 510
3) Burgerking 517
4) Dunnstral Aristophanes 874
5) BK201
6) sad1492
9) mhsmith0 MiniDeathStar 506 537 539 542 935 938 940
10) oddmusic
11) Secret Agent Jin
12) Flubbernugget doomfeathers 806
13) tojam2 994

To/From MariaR:
Creature is very likely town given scale of interactions. Theoretically trans looks better from the number of interactions but I'm a bit hesitant to give much credit there given their combined history and presumed chemistry. Doomfeathers had a relatively high number of interactions but I don't know that I'd call any of them GOOD. And everyone else has a real dearth.

To/From Gamma:
Trans has a LOT of back and forth (ditto me). I'd be a bit more inclined to give Trans credit here given (I think) lack of history between them. Most others barely talked to Gamma or had gamma talk to them, so hard to really say how anyone stuck out.

[mhsmith0]

And looking at VC data:

Spoiler: VC's

VC 1.2 Trans at 4
Transcend (L-3): Flubbernugget , oddmusic, Creature, Secret Agent Jin
mhsmith0 (L-5): tojam2, Transcend
Flubbernugget (L-5): mhsmith0,

Gamma Emerald

Aristophanes (L-6):

Aubrey

Not voting: Burgerking, Aristophanes, BK201, and sad1492

VC 1.3 Trans back down to 3
Transcend (L-4): oddmusic, Secret Agent Jin,

Aubrey

Flubbernugget (L-5): mhsmith0,

Gamma Emerald

Aristophanes (L-5): Flubbernugget , Creature
mhsmith0 (L-6): tojam2

Aubrey

(L-6): Transcend

Not voting: Burgerking, Aristophanes, BK201, and sad1492

VC 1.4 - competing 3-vote wagons
Aristophanes (L-4): Flubbernugget , oddmusic, BK201
Transcend (L-4): Secret Agent Jin,

Aubrey

, mhsmith0
mhsmith0 (L-5): tojam2, Transcend

Aubrey

(L-6): Creature
Flubbernugget (L-6):

Gamma Emerald

tojam2 (L-6): sad1492

Not voting: Burgerking, and Aristophanes

VC 1.7 Maria(Gamma) up to 4

Gamma Emerald

(L-3): Burgerking, sad1492, Creature,

Aubrey

Aristophanes (L-5): Flubbernugget , BK201
tojam2 (L-5): oddmusic, Secret Agent Jin
Transcend (L-6): tojam2

Aubrey

(L-6): Transcend

Not voting: mhsmith0,

Gamma Emerald

, and Aristophanes

VC 1.8 Maria wagon loses steam, Ari up to 3
Aristophanes (L-4): Flubbernugget , BK201, Creature

Gamma Emerald

(L-5): Burgerking, sad1492
tojam2 (L-5): oddmusic, Secret Agent Jin
sad1492 (L-6): mhsmith0

Aubrey

(L-6): Transcend
Transcend (L-6):

Aubrey

Not voting:

Gamma Emerald

, tojam2, and Aristophanes

VC 1.94 tojam up to 4
tojam2 (L-3): oddmusic, Secret Agent Jin,

Aubrey

, sad1492

Gamma Emerald

(L-3): BK201, Transcend, Creature, Dunnstral
sad1492 (L-5): mhsmith0, tojam2
Transcend (L-6):

Gamma Emerald

BK201 (L-6): Burgerking
Burgerking (L-6): Flubbernugget

Not voting:

VC 1.95 Gamma up to 4

Gamma Emerald

(L-3): Transcend, Creature, Dunnstral, tojam2
tojam2 (L-4): oddmusic, Secret Agent Jin, sad1492
Transcend (L-5):

Aubrey

,

Gamma Emerald

Burgerking (L-5): Flubbernugget, BK201
Flubbernugget (L-6): Burgerking
sad1492 (L-6): mhsmith0

Not voting:

VC Final

Gamma Emerald

(Lynched): Creature, Dunnstral, tojam2, Burgerking, sad1492, Transcend, Secret Agent Jin
Transcend (L-5):

Aubrey

,

Gamma Emerald

Burgerking (L-5): Flubbernugget, BK201
tojam2 (L-6): oddmusic
sad1492 (L-6): mhsmith0

Not voting:

Notes:
1) It'd be a bit weird for my predecssor and Maria (original version of Gamma) to have been on Flubbernugget together, unless you believe there was an intentional bunching votes strategy, or that this represented an attempt to create a counter to scum #3 (in this case would be Transcend). Obviously grain of salt, self-defense etc., but that pops up as generically unusual activity for scum.

2) It's kind of interesting that Trans was the first big wagon, and then the air slowly leaked out of it, and then things were kind of blah for a while. If Trans is a wolf then he was almost certainly being bussed; otherwise I feel like it's weird for him to just hang around in the 3 vote stage for a while without a more meaningful effort/push to get a counter wagon going.

3) Maria (Gamma) becoming a big wagon all of a sudden was also kind of interesting, and then the air popped out of it, and then all of a sudden it came back again. Also notable that Burgerking hopped off after VC 1.8 and never got back on even when the wagon gained steam, while Creature/Transcend were on again, off again on Maria/Gamma. On a pure VCA basis there's some suspicion in my mind on Creature/Transcend, but given the scale of the interactions between them and MR/Gamma, I think that has a realistic chance of just being coincidence. At the least I really don't think them both is any kind of reasonable likelihood.

4) Maria wagon got steam, then dropped back a bit, and then Gamma wagon got steam without any real strong counter efforts taking hold. I'd say there was at least one busser essentially always, and kind of wonder if there might have been two. I think I'm most suspicious of sad/SAJ here, given how they were on the tojam counter-wagon (the last one to really have any kind of a reasonable shot of going through instead of Gamma) but ended up on Gamma anyway. Probably need to re-read their vote movements more carefully to get much of an opinion there.

TLDR: Creature still town. Not at all sure on Trans. Probably a wolf in sad/SAJ.

[tojam2]

No idea

Saj's vote was actually really weird and I'm not sure why he hammered so fast

I'll let him explain that.

I hammered because i wanted the day done. I wish i could tell you there was a complex reason behind it.

Bs, VOTE: SAJ

[mhsmith0]

Well with Trans and Burger, Gamma attacked them all throughout D1. I mean, a lot meaning to me that they are town. If they were scum, i could see Gamma soft attacking on them or voting them when a wagon started but Gamma even challenged them when there was no reason to.
For Flubber, he seems to have a few posts wherein he interacts with him but never really says too much stuff to Flubber that could be construed as buddying. Gamma also doesnt interact with Flubber too much. It looks to me like Gamma was trying to keeo his distance so that a line couldn't be drawn between them, that screams scummy to me.
I have not looked into Maria too much, who replaced her?

I don't really understand where you're going wrt Flubber. By and large, Gamma was interacting with relatively few slots in his time D1; what makes Flubber stand out in particular in that regard?

Also, what makes you think that Gamma/Burgerking was non-plausible theater? I don't think there was ever any danger of Burgerking getting lynched, and with Gamma being in some trouble, having a "fuck you" sort of back and forth seems like an realistic way to create distance without actually doing anything to put him in danger of getting lynched.

[Transcend]

protip:

you should not infer that i'm scum based on a flipped scum's ISO

you should not infer that i'm town based on a flipped scum's ISO

you should infer what my alignment is based on MY ISO

have

a

fantastic

fucking

night

if you hear from me again within the next 12 hours, i'm drunk.

[Secret Agent Jin]

what makes Flubber stand out in particular in that regard?

774 890 These are just posts between the two, nothing scummy about it. Just two buddies talking.
834 855 These two posts are just chatter between the two, Gamma posting positive talk toward Flubber but not saying much of anything.

Gamma and Flubber talked but never really anything related to advancing the game. Kind of like two buddies that know each others roles so there is no need to talk strategy or about the game.