Mini Normal 1848 — Game Over!

[Human Sequencer]

Drone in that context isn't quite as bad as I originally thought in my head.

Do you read Chaos as town, Mort, and if so, why?

[MortFeld]

I'm not taking a stance regarding Shadow's hypoplay. I already said I'm willing to try it. The point I was making is that you TRd Shadow, and justified it by saying that scum would have no reason to introduce the hypoplay idea, which is just not true.

Plus, suggesting something like this, creating something, trying to move the game forward isn't scum motivated. I think scumShadow would have just slipped into the game being as inconspicuous as possible. Instead he put all this effort in to try and get everybody onboard with his theorycraft.

How does suggesting something that only matters day 2 push the game forward? I actually see Shadow as stalling the game right now, by posting only things that have nothing to do with the current game state.

I'd read Chaos null to very slight town if he contributed more. Because of severe lack of information (he's not commented on most things that have happened) I'm null on Chaos. His early game ISO looks good. Aside from Road, his current lynch pool looks reasonable, if a little... weak? A lot of how I view Chaos will come from why he doesn't want to lynch you.

[keyenpeydee]

Vote Count

VOTE COUNT 1.37

[2] Road Kamelot - ChaosOmega, Naomi-Tan,
[1] ArcAngel9 - Nero Cain,
[0] Toto -
[0] Nero Cain -
[0] Drone -
[0] DeathByWobbuffet -
[3] Human Sequencer - Shadow_step, TwoFace, Mortfeld,
[0] MortFeld -
[0] Lil Uzi Vert -
[1] TwoFace - Drone,
[0] Naomi-Tan -
[3] ChaosOmega - ArcAngel9, Human Sequencer, Toto,
[0] Shadow_step -

Not Voting

- DeathByWobbuffet, Road Kamelot, Lil Uzi Vert,

MOD NOTES:

Popcorn <3

V/LA:

Naomi-Tan

With

13

Alive, it takes

7

to lynch. Day One will end in

(expired on 2016-11-21 15:40:00)

[Shadow_step]

I have been lazy and only caught up till page 4. I should have more time from tomorrow.

Nero how far are you caught up?

[Human Sequencer]

I'm sleeping.
If I'm not lynched by the time I get back home from work later I'll be surprised.
I expect either my slot to be mostly redeemed by what others say about me, or dead.
Night.

[Shadow_step]

UNVOTE:

Should have done this earlier.

[TwoFace]

I'm sleeping.
If I'm not lynched by the time I get back home from work later I'll be surprised.
I expect either my slot to be mostly redeemed by what others say about me, or dead.
Night.

lynches don't typically happen that fast...

[ChaosOmega]

VOTE: HS

Was curious to see how they would respond to my 1479, since I defended them earlier in the game and HS seemed to weirdly buddy me in return (see 1286). They respond right after in 1480:

I'm finally getting people who are actually thinking this game through. People like Kamelot, Drone and Chaos. I knew you'd pull through.

"Oh, you think I'm town, you're really thinking the game through." It's weird to hold this opinion and then immediately vote me afterwards because there was support for it. Super opportunistic.

I didn't have any other scumreads, like I've said twentyfive to the nth times, and it's really really bad on Drone's part.

You had zero scumreads before Drone there? Holy shit. This is not like your play in the newbie at all. Still on the topic of your zero scumreads...

Let it be known that if a wagon picks up for any of these slots, I'd be on board for a lynch;
Kamelot, ArcAngel, Creeps
I could probably be convinced over on Wobbs and Nero, but I'm not entirely sure. It'd have to be a good case.

So you want to lynch like almost half the people in this game, but have no scumreads? That's just silly. Almost like you're avoiding making scumreads to stay friendly to everyone, hmm.....

Their jump on the Road wagon looks sketchy (1201/1205). They call Mort and Road TvT, and then votes Road.

------

Mort, what is your current read on Arc?

Drone, we're not lynching TwoFace today. I'll save you the trouble of waiting for the end of the day if you're actually going to replace out. Who is your top scumread not named TwoFace, and why?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@Arc:

I'm willing to compromise on DBW. I'm not really following the Omega wagon. It seems like he just gave a list of his scum reads from strongest to weakest. Yes he didn't go in depth on his weaker scum reads but I rather cross that bridge when we get there since I found the most important thing about that post was his case on his strongest scum read. The real problem I found with it is that he seemed to feel better about RK's alignment since he liked the vote on Drone so I'm not sure how he ultimately ended up voting for him there unless that didn't do much to sway him.

@Drone:

You're basically saying you want to lynch TF on policy again. I understand you don't like his play style but try to put that aside for now like you did when you attempted to get him PL before.

@HS:

DBW refuses to read and it's becoming more alarming clear to me he doesn't need to based on the reads he gave Mort because he's knows everyone else's alignment. Those reads look like scum who is lazy and can't even be bothered to at least attempt to fake content trying to coast. Also the way he twisted things with TF doesn't read town to me.

How is Shadow a TR for you? All he has done is suggest and push a pro town idea that seems to have a strong possibility of backfiring. He hasn't explained in depth why his idea will severely benefit town as no one seems convinced to try it. He also has not done any scum hunting at all. Also why are you voting Omega? It doesn't seem like you were SR him and you said you're not confident in any of your null or SR reads so why not try to spend more time sorting people?

VOTE: HS

[MortFeld]

At the time of your question Chaos I view Arc similarly to how I view TF, in that they are distracting and their posts are confusing, except I disagree with a lot of the content Arc does have. Let me do a more detailed chronological analysis. Wall spoilered.

Spoiler: PBPA of Arc

1330 is weird.

Scum found. Good job trying to divert your wagon on me?

VOTE: Human Sequencer

Is this a reaction test? It definitely just looks like Arc votes HS because HS votes Arc.

1333 acknowledges that they are supporting a wagon started by their one scum read. Possibly a little self-conscious.

1384 is all kinds of weird. This is where Arc brings in the idea that HS is scum because HS has no case on Arc. Arc doesn't understand that the case is based on TB? Also misreads HS' post about what happens if Arc flips town, I think.

And how sure are you to indicate those who support my wagon seems least scummiest it to you? So you know for sure mafia dont want to push my wagon if i am town? See that's very contradicting of yourself

HS was saying that in the even that Arc is lynched and flips town, HS will see who on the Arc wagon was scummiest. I don't even know what Arc thought HS meant. Super aggressive comment.

1385 throwing shade at TF again. Seems to be a pattern of saying TF is scummy without providing reasoning.

1389 another weird misreading of a post. Even if Arc thought Nero said "

Why

do you want to lynch Angel, twoface?" instead of "Who," why would Arc even engage with a question directed at TF? And Nero hasn't even scumread TF. Such a headscratch post from Arc.

1398 Nero clarifies what he asked, which was clear to begin with, and Arc still doesn't understand and still doesn't answer. Though I will admit that it's an odd question from Nero, since Arc obviously wants to lynch HS.

Also, this whole misrep thing with TF. This is hard to read because they are both bad at representing their respective viewpoints. So it's objectively true that Arc misrepped TF jumping on wagons willy nilly, since TF didn't do that. Arc calling TF defensive in 1398 for asking Arc to explain is a bad look.

1416 wtf, why is Arc trying to defend TB? I already gave a very plausible reading of TB as town, and even if Arc missed that, what's the point? You don't become town by convincing people your predecessor's actions were NAI. Arc also says that productivity isn't indicative of alignment which just isn't true. Post count isn't indicative, content/productivity is.

1481 oh.

I like Arc more than I liked TB to be honest. But maybe that's just because they don't like HS.

Arc, can you summarize your case for TwoFace? Why are you scum reading him? do you have any townreads?

Did you try ISO me? I have been pointing my finger at him since my initial catch up post. Although my initial reads were not strong but the way he has created options to hop into my wagon seems suspicious. I could be wrong but the way he wanted to dominate the argument verbally seems unfair but am glad it has happened because i do see his aggression genuine but at this moment, I am two minds about his slot.

This looks like Arc's SR of TF might have been planned. They never gave a reason for SRing TF while catching up, and now the reason for SRing TF is that TF is pushing Arc? It's weird. Honestly, if I put myself in the mind of town!Arc, the main reason I SR TF is that he's a dick. That+OMGUS is not a reason to SR someone.

VOTE: Unvote

What? Why? What changed regarding HS?

1485 is hilarious. Arc asks TF to be clearer, when Arc's comment is one of the most unclear things I've seen this game. This is part of a pattern of Arc not understanding what I see as fairly clear posts.

1510 calls the case on HS wrong. Why? Wrong because... HS is town? Or wrong because it is a poorly reasoned case? Also, TF is suddenly town along with HS. Why?

1511 through 1523 are all fluff. Nothingness. Bad questions in a pointless conversation.

1526 starts this weird suspicion of Chaos.

1535 continues the Chaos question, to HS of all people who was Arc's SR but who is suddenly not a SR for whatever reason.

1539 shows an utter lack of understanding of why HS is scum for the policy lynch stuff.

1542 dumb. Vote Chaos to convince him to answer your question? Wtf is that

1558 ok this is just bad. You jumped into the game by accusing HS. Before then the wagon was stalled anyway.

1555 just noticed this. Why are you comparing Copper/Wobbu to Chaos? Their parts in the game are completely different.

This actually might be scum. Seems to plan TF suspicion, originally based on nothing, then later based on OMGUS and TF's arrogance, so still nothing. Does misrep/lie that TF has been hopping on wagons. Then suddenly, TF is angry town. Accuses HS, then slowly comes to believe that HS is town, yet doesn't even understand why the wagon on HS exists. Also has no reason to believe HS is town from the HS+TF+Arc discussion. Chaos push is bad and based on nothing.

So there's no justification for any of Arc's reads. The whole discussion with TF and HS somehow started with both being scum and ended with both being town, and HS+Arc voting Chaos. Makes me think HS+Arc is pretty reasonable, despite HS' weird push of Arc on grounds of TB's actions.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Honestly Arc and TF's back and forth read like a lot of noise to me. Mainly coming from her but the biggest thing I took from it is she is trying her hardest to stall the wagon on HS by making a big deal out of nothing.

[Nero Cain]

Arc is town, I was just voting her to see who jumped on and what not. Going to reread RK and see why ppl are calling her town now.

[MortFeld]

Why is Arc town?

[TwoFace]

Why is Arc town?

[Nero Cain]

to me it looks like the town Arc I've played with before.

[MortFeld]

Did you read my PBPA or at least my summary of it?

[TwoFace]

to me it looks like the town Arc I've played with before.

Meta doesn't work for me. Show me some town motivated posts. Her interactions with me were meh. Misrep me and calling me defensive when she was also defensive doesn't look good to me.

[Nero Cain]

I DID! IMO when Arc is town she kinda throws a hissy fit and lashes out at people and thats what it looked like she was doing.

[Toto]

Arc seems like she was genuinely mediating between two people and trying to move the game forward which is a town attitude. That's also why I have slight town read on Road..

I thought she could be just stalling the game to save HS but I don't think they are partners because HS attack on her seemed genuine. So I think Arc is probably town.

After hearing from Chaos I'm going to UNVOTE: Chaos for now.

Reading latest HS vote pattern seems like this was just another attempt to save their own ass.

I need to re-read all this but I think I'm pretty convinced about HS today.

[MortFeld]

Arc seems like she was genuinely mediating between two people and trying to move the game forward which is a town attitude.

Huh? This isn't right. Arc was the one who thought TF was scum, not HS. Who was Arc mediating between? The dumb argument was between Arc and TF.

[TwoFace]

Mort. Thoughts on the 180 by chaos and the vote by uzi.

[MortFeld]

Toto why did you vote Chaos to begin with?

[MortFeld]

Mort. Thoughts on the 180 by chaos and the vote by uzi.

180 by Chaos: could actually be a reaction test? Two thoughts I had were: HS really did seem to be buddying Chaos, and Chaos might have seen this

A lot of how I view Chaos will come from why he doesn't want to lynch you.

and made up the reaction test justification, but I buy that he was trying to see if HS would buddy him again because 1. that's what HS actually did and 2. his reaction to HS in general mirrors mine.

Vote by LUV: not really sure where he's coming from. It actually looks like 838 where he just says he's fine with the HS wagon and votes HS. Why not vote HS earlier, like, why did it take me starting up the wagon again? Weird.

[MortFeld]

After hearing from Chaos I'm going to UNVOTE: Chaos for now.

You were voting him just to get him to talk??? Do you see how ridiculous that is? If he's town, he's going to talk anyway, voting him is pointless. If he's scum, why would his talking make you unvote? The things he says will be scum things. I'm going crazy over this awful wagon.

[Toto]

Yes I voted Chaos to get him to talk and move the game forward.

Chaos+HS could have been a thing but after that reaction I don't think it is. hS votes was very non-committal which could have been bussing and I wanted to see where that led.