Newbie 1756: Balloon (Game Over)

[Transcend]

Accountant why have you been so neutral recently?

Who do you think is scum?

[Accountant]

Accountant why have you been so neutral recently?

Who do you think is scum?

I don't know. I will say I think Manuel and Tweet is a TvT right now, with Manuel being stronger town than Tweet. I have a townlean on you as well, so let's PoE you, Manuel, Tweet, WCS and Charloux out.

That leaves 2 scum in {Misa, Norska, thatsit}, so I'm fine with a lynch from any of these slots today. It's difficult for me to determine who in that pile is scum exactly, because they're all either lurkers who are hard to interrogate or kinda unreadable(like thatsit), or both. It's frustrating in a way, but I have confidence that

at least

one scum is in those three.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

@ Accountant

All I meant was that you were pushing Transcend recently. I'm not saying you've been tunnelling him for long periods of time.

I don't see how tunnelling someone implies that you are voting them. Yes indeed it's about tunnel vision and not paying attention to anyone else, but scum can do that and interrogate someone without dropping a vote on them. Even town could do that, it would just be very anti-town to do so. I don't see how voting is implied.

My weekly D&D game is starting guys. It lasts for more or less about 2 hours so I'll be back later.

[Accountant]

All I meant was that you were pushing Transcend recently.

By pushing, do you mean I was trying to get him lynched?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Accountant why have you been so neutral recently?

Who do you think is scum?

I don't know. I will say I think Manuel and Tweet is a TvT right now, with Manuel being stronger town than Tweet. I have a townlean on you as well, so let's PoE you, Manuel, Tweet, WCS and Charloux out.

Just before I go:

I agree with all of this. Doesn't clear you for town though. Although I wouldn't say you're scum either. My intuition is that you seem very townie but my intuition is also that as a very experienced player it may be very easy for you to seem town as scum. Maybe you are saying that all these players are town because you know they are but then you're going to try and get us to lynch someone else you know who is town who is not on that list. I think one way to tell if that's what you're doing is if later on into the game these town reads you listed suddenly become scum reads to you.

But the same could be said about others. I'm starting to think the problem is a lot of reads can apply to a lot of people and not everyone can be scum. In fact most people are town. We know Char is town that's one thing we know.

I really wish someone would address my post regarding how without a very strong reason for someone to be scum it seems it's just as easily to find reasons for those people being town. I find this game so hard. Aside from scum-slips and POE what else do we have? I try to go by my gut but it seems so arbitery. Mafia is such a difficult game.

So again, we know Char is town, does anyone have any

really strong

reasons for someone being scum? The problem with weak reasons is that they're so open to interpretation that just as many people can interpret things the opposite way. I don't want this game to turn into a guessing game. We have incomplete information but not know information.

What are the facts?

We know Char is town.

Do we have strong reasons for believing anyone is scum as opposed to reasons that anybody can disagree with and are rather worthless?

Like I feel my reasons for scumreading people are very often weak, and I'll admit that. But I don't see anyone else's reasons being any stronger. I'm looking for actual scum slips or townie lips that allow us to work out the scum by POE.

All we really know is Char is town. Everyone else disagrees on that and scum will be delighted to see us all fighting with each other.

Town are going to have to start agreeing on things otherwise we're pretty much just in a lottery besides the fact we know Char is not scum.

Okay catch you later the D&D game is starting now.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

All I meant was that you were pushing Transcend recently.

By pushing, do you mean I was trying to get him lynched?

No. You were either testing him as a townie to see if he was lynchworthy... you're more interested in getting Misa lynched at the moment. You were trying to make sure the right person is being lynched. Pushing someone doesn't mean you're necessarily pushing for a lynch. Just that you're testing them to see if they're worth one any more than the person you

are

trying to lynch already.

Either that or you're scum and you're casting shade on him, hoping he slips up when you push him and then are preparing to change your vote to him. But only if he's a more worthwhile vote than Misa. I doubt you would be bussing Misa.

Anyways I really have to go now. The D&D game has already started and they'll wonder why I'm so quiet.

[Accountant]

The process of elimination, a powerful scumhunting tool and the main one I am using right now, is not subject to interpretation. The strong townreads that form the basis of the elimination are, but I've clearly laid out my reasons for them and nobody has interpreted them differently, so I feel safe in saying that there's no problem there.

[Accountant]

No. You were either testing him as a townie to see if he was lynchworthy...

Not quite. Town benefits from transparency, so I wanted to make sure that me and Transcend were on the same page regarding reads. Even better, if he has a good reason for townreading thatsit, he might be able to convince me of the same, and then I can tighten my PoE net even further.

At the same time, this transparency also makes it hard for Transcend to get away with things in the event he is scum. Instead of saying "I am questioning people to see if they're scum", it would be more accurate to say "I am questioning people to create a hostile atmosphere for scum that leaves them no rock to hide under".

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Thank you for your answers Accountant. I know you're an IC so there are certain things you have to be honest about... and I also know that you're an experienced player so would put on a very good act of seeming town if scum.

But I still think you're town. I think you're been scumhunting so overtly that that would be a hard act to maintain even as an experienced player.

I agree with you about the POE being a very effective scumhunting tool. But doesn't this make town reads more important than scum reads because scum reads will take care of themselves once we decide who is and isn't town?

Okay I'd say from the gut here are my town reads from most town to least town:

Myself
Charloux
Accountant
Manuel
Transcend
Thatsit
Tweet

Going purely by the gut that would leave Misa and Norska as scum. They are both also my scum reads.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Alternatively if I'm wrong about Norska I'd say Misa and thatsit are scum.

It's Thatsit's posts who I am least familiar with. I'll go ISO Thatsit now.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Okay I've ISOed Thatsit.

I think thatsit is faking noob town.

I think I was wrong about Norska. I'd say Misa and thatsit are scum. I'm happy to vote for either of them.

[MisaTange]

Misa has barely been here. Has she said she's not a BP or JK yet? And is she aware of Char's claim?

What's up with people and discrediting people's posts just because they aren't actively posting. >_> And RTFT, during me and Accountant's exchange, I mentioned Char's claim multiple times.

I'm also aware that people's been voting me only via PoE, which I can only feel like I can get out of via posting. Whoever's scum is Pretty Damn Good™.

[MisaTange]

Since I'm at L-2 atm, I won't claim even if I get to L-1. I'll claim only if I see a bolded intent to hammer. We already have one PR outed; I don't want another PR dead within the next two days.

Uh, if it wasn't clear, I am not a BP or JK.

[Accountant]

Whoever's scum is Pretty Damn Good™.

Should I take this to imply that you have no scum reads? If so, do you have any town reads, or are you drawing a complete blank?

[Accountant]

But doesn't this make town reads more important than scum reads because scum reads will take care of themselves once we decide who is and isn't town?

It depends on the situation, but having strong townreads you can work with and trust greatly is as important as having a good idea of whose lynch to push.

[MisaTange]

Whoever's scum is Pretty Damn Good™.

Should I take this to imply that you have no scum reads? If so, do you have any town reads, or are you drawing a complete blank?

It's more like that I don't really understand this situation's PoE. Like people are townreading other people in 19 pages where, going through their iso, I can find one town post, and people are scumreading people just because they're lurking.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Lurking is a scummy thing to do. Town don't lurk. Town can be inactive, but town don't lurk.

[MisaTange]

...Who was the person who implied that lurkers are either PRs or scum? Could've sworn it was you.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

Okay I'm very certain you're scum now. I never said anything about PRs being lurkers at all.

And the snarky attitude to throw shade on me as if I'm pretending not to say something that I

actually never said

.

I'm glad my vote is on you.

For emphasis:

VOTE: Misa

[MisaTange]

Jesus, sorry. I have really terrible memory and, while I remember someone said something, but usually I don't remember who. This seems to be the case. >_>...

Since you're pretty set on me being scum, who do you think is scum by perchance I flip town?

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

(It's okay. And I regret using the word "snarky"... I just couldn't think of a nicer word to use to describe the same thing. Perhaps that word was a little harsh of me but I didn't know how else to describe it.

We can play Mafia without being rude and I'm not here to hurt anyone's feelings. And don't worry you didn't upset me. If you could think of a word that means "snarky" that has a less negative connotation that would be awesome. I think it is perfectly possible to play this game skillfully without using words like that to describe each other. I just couldn't think of another word. Sorry.

Anyways, with that out of the way and back to the game: )

I fully read you as scum for reasons given. If you are town I'd say Norska and That's it are scum. I think the scum is either--in order of most likely to least likely--Misa and Thatsit, Misa and Norska, or Thatsit and Norska.

[WeCanSimplyBeOurselves]

(P.S. I have a really terrible memory too, I'm sorry if I was a little harsh. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings).

I really think That's it, Norska and Misa are the most likely scum suspects. I think one of them is town and the other two are scum.

[Accountant]

Whoever's scum is Pretty Damn Good™.

Should I take this to imply that you have no scum reads? If so, do you have any town reads, or are you drawing a complete blank?

It's more like that I don't really understand this situation's PoE. Like people are townreading other people in 19 pages where, going through their iso, I can find one town post, and people are scumreading people just because they're lurking.

I think I have adequately explained all my townreads. Which ones do you think are thinly justified(like having only one town post)?

I would appreciate it if you gave us a reads list right about now. Like, sort players into categories(townlean, scumlean, townread, scumread, null) based on how you see them.

[Morning Tweet]

Okay I've ISOed Thatsit.

I think thatsit is faking noob town.

That's a more serious accusation than you think. Why? Please don't say gut.

Whoever's scum is Pretty Damn Good™.

Should I take this to imply that you have no scum reads? If so, do you have any town reads, or are you drawing a complete blank?

It's more like that I don't really understand this situation's PoE. Like people are townreading other people in 19 pages where, going through their iso, I can find one town post, and people are scumreading people just because they're lurking.

I think I have adequately explained all my townreads. Which ones do you think are thinly justified(like having only one town post)?

I would appreciate it if you gave us a reads list right about now. Like, sort players into categories(townlean, scumlean, townread, scumread, null) based on how you see them.

I agree the PoE here is pretty easy to understand, and a Misa read list would be fantastic to force her to show where she's at. My only request is for you would be an explanation as to why Manuel v. Tweet is TvT. Also don't get me wrong here,
UNVOTE:
I'm a bit more interested in my side of the exchange.

Since I'm at L-2 atm, I won't claim even if I get to L-1. I'll claim only if I see a bolded intent to hammer. We already have one PR outed; I don't want another PR dead within the next two days.

This is the only thing keeping me from voting Misa right now. I'd expect scum to read the thread more closely than

that

.

[Accountant]

Manuel v. Tweet is TvT.

Manuel is town because I think scum!Manuel would sit on a lurker rather than push you. You're town for the same reasons Transcend is - you've been making consistently solid posts and your thought process is clear and I think oriented towards trying to identify and lynch scum. While it's not to say that scum can't make solid posts, I think it's much harder for scum to fake that kind of mindset. Scum trying to look town usually make posts that look good on the surface but that don't contribute much to actual scumhunting, but I didn't get the impression at your posts are shallow.

Furthermore, the easy way in which everyone else seems to be letting you two fight or focusing on your fight seems to me to be a sign of either apathy or scum who is more than happy to let two town members go at each other tooth and nail. In particular I think townies would try to push their own scumreads rather than try to make the decision into a false dichotomy of Manuel vs Tweet. This is why Misa's lack of scumreads is very concerning to me - I think she doesn't have any so she can go "well, I don't have anyone to push, so I'll just pick between Manuel and Tweet".