Mini Normal 1857 (Game Over - Mafia Wins!)

[rb]

it's not sesq voting it's me getting back from work and posting, i'm still pretty uninterested in mafia atm because i'm generally tired

[JaeReed]

VC 1.17

rb (3)

: Transcend, drealmerz7, Sesq

ironstove (2)

: Kohai, TTTT

drealmerz7 (1)

: Lil Uzi Vert

Sesq (1)

: rb

Transcend (1)

: ironstove

ssbm_Kyouko (1)

: iamafluffyrabbit

NOT VOTING (4)

: Impoetic, shannon, Drone, ssbm_Kyouko

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-12-10 12:30:00)

Kohai has requested replacement.

[Sesq]

I T T A L K E D

UNVOTE: rb

[rb]

^Opportunistic unvote

[JaeReed]

gerryoat replaces Kohai.

[gerryoat]

Hello.

It's me.

I was wondering if after all these pages you'd like to meet.

To go over.

Everything.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

OOH, GARY

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Kohai flaked pretty hard so if you could find scum outside of TTTT and rabbit that'd be great, preferably inside rb, Uzi, shannon. I mean whatever you can find is good but just like read up or if you want to know something specific I could go over my

hot opinions

.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Kyouko, why have you not addressed the explanation I gave on why you're doubtful about my alignment? This is making me start to think that you've made up your mind already and aren't willing to listen to what I have to say. If so, that's disappointing.

[Drone]

Shading.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Oh I just forgot about it, got a lot going on. Reminds me I gotta reply to Impoetic too now that I'm back on PC.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

@SSBM:

That feeling you're getting is me either trying to understand or understanding a case on someone and realizing the main or majority of the reasons for said case is NAI. I also never voted for Impoetic.

I don't understand the problem with 459, I'm just simply going by off of what Iron said. I'm not going to vote someone for obvious shit posting and filler when they claimed they would play serious today. They have yet to deliver though and today at least EST time is basically over so my suspicion has gone up, but I mean other then what I just said, there isn't a case on Iron. My vote is going to remain on Drealm until my questions get answered, someone scums it up more than him in my eyes, or I have to compromise.

My comments on Fluffy is just a thing I do where I select notes I have taken that I feel are worth putting out there for discussion or potentially the most relevant

Shannon is just a meta read honestly and rb's silence is a bit worrying. Almost seems like he's laid low to take the heat off him.

So that could be true in most of these cases from my notes. Something I didn't really consider when I read before though, but I'm definitely thinking now, is that maybe you're scum looking for a town member who has a pretty good scum case against them, so that you can get onto their wagon. It doesn't change the fact that your vote seemed to just park on drealmerz for ages and you seemed to be okay with putting that off, which is why I waited to reserve judgment, but now you're talking like you never agreed to do that and he's the one avoiding you. My mistake on the Impo vote, you outed suspicion a couple of times and 442 reads to me like you were explaining why your vote was on her, but I see now that it wasn't.

I get that you know shannon b/c of both of your posts in RVS so that's something that could be passing but I'm not feeling that really. rb is back now but isn't very convincing so he's still fair game in my book.

Problem with 459 for me is that it's something that shouldn't have to be posted. Town shouldn't be putting a vote on someone who can't respond to it because of V/LA sort of situations. If anything you keep quiet and see how many people are willing to put their votes on him because there's sure to be scum on that kind of wagon if it gets to 3-4 people. Like I said before I also don't like seeing shannon giving you towncred for it later because I don't think it's a post deserving of that. It's thickening a team association between two players that I'm not TRing, which makes them look more suspicious to me as individuals as well.

I think it's important for you and Drealmerz to talk about that potential misunderstanding from earlier asap. rb's posts have not looked very driven so far, more like he's coasting through. I want to decide between the 2 of you today because I don't think that a shannon lynch right now would be useful if she flipped town. She hasn't really posted enough yet I think. Depending on how iron keeps on he might come back into my lynchpool, but I'm sort of feeling town from him despite his rudeness.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

that quote was a mistake and not associated with the post.

@Kyouko:

i understand that, but I don't feel like I stopped the walls, and I don't understand what changed for people that were

outwardly scumreading me

before and then flipped, because i didn't intentionally change my playstyle as far as I can remember, and even if i did... it seems like something that might be seen as towny by

some

people, but not ALL, and certainly not all of the people who had scumread me for everything up until that point and were therefore not connecting with my mindset; on top of them, some of them should have been somewhat confbiased on top of it. Does this make sense?

Tbh I don't quite understand this post, especially the part about confirmation bias. I'm curious as to who all you think was outwardly scumreading you and then flipped though just so there's a list of people to look at. I know Transcend, rabbit, LUV and I are on that list as people suspecting you, and I know Trans and I voted you, not sure on others without double-checking.

Like, I can imagine that getting pressure off me helped me not seem hyperdefensive because, well, duh, but there's

also

rabbit's scene, and that seems more concrete than any of the tells you've been describing. Like, they make sense, and i can think of reasons for people to flip, but not reasons substantial enough to convince

everyone

in a pool of players who ALL claimed to think I was scummy before that point. IIRC i have literally no votes on me now. That's like, 5-0. in a short space of time.

No, not all the flips can be mafia; I just think some of them probably are, and I felt like drone was potentially one of the scummier ones.

This part makes sense. I don't know if I agree on drone yet since I haven't really looked into what everyone was thinking of you specifically, but if you get that list of people that you think flipped I'd be down to go through it and try to find scum motivation in the flips. It seems likely that at least one person voting/suspecting you then flipping would have been scummy, unless scum was just scratching their ass with their votes parked on drealmerz which seems really unlikely that all 3 of them are scum.

Also not being hyperdefensive because of fewer votes is a chicken/egg scenario, because clearly some of the people who unvoted did not unvote for that, and it seems like most of htem claim not to.

There's also an odd consensus on the reasons people have been using for why i'm scum/town respectively. Again, no argument i've seen for either side has been substantial enough to make me think "jeeze, i would connect with this if i didn't have my alignment confirmed to me ahead of time" and "it totally makes sense that there's so little conflict on my alignment."

I guess that's it. Lack of conflict. Everyone agrees. That's not what I've seen in the past, and it could jsut be coincidence, but to me it seems the simplest (possibly too simple) conclusion is that some of the votes are not genuine sentiments.

This last bit I agree with, but I don't think the conclusion is too simple. I don't believe in coincidence and it seems highly unlikely that everyone voting/suspecting you was town the whole time

*not a chicken/egg scenario but you know what i mean

oh frick i'm quadrupleposting sorry ):

anyway, i wanted to point out that town can sheep logic/be swayed by popular consensus too, and I understand that is a possible scenario. So yeah okay votes can either be town or scum.

I'll have to review it i suppose. Or look up VCA, because I don't think improvising completely is a good strategy. Or just stop and look elsewhere.

While town sheeping is possible I again think it would be too unlikely if 5(?) town members read a 6(?)th town member as scum without any scum in the pack. Scum join in the pack against town to give townspeople more of a pack mentality when reading someone who is actually town as scum. When a townsperson sees a lot of votes on someone they TR have to start thinking about the possibility that maybe they're wrong because why are so many people SRing my TR? Scum have too much motivation to SR you if you're town when the suspicion starts to get heavier for them to resist doing it. If you're really town then there are surely scum who flipped off of SRing you.

[shannon]

Quickie catch up, let's see what stuck out.

i dont like anything you just posted lmao

So you're in total disagreement with my town and scum reads so far? You think transcend is more towny than scummy from your POV?

My personal thoughts on Transcend lean towards scummy, but I take the word of people earlier in the game who said it's basically impossible to tell D1. Given that he can also apparently be really good as town, I don't think we should lynch there today, based on a cost/benefit thinky thing.

I am town reading Ironstove for 711, I think it was far too thorough to be fake. Interesting about RB's image macros potentially being a tic. Catch of the game if RB flips scum.

Mostly caught up now, AMA

Spoiler:

speaking of which i cant really keep stove in my scum pile because him being mostly disengaged is more likely town; at least i know he used to want to play scum more. could've changed since then though.

i'll reread and do impressions of other players tomorrow, gotta sleep soon.

That's not really true, you can look at my town games here if you're interested, and my scum games, I'm actually never this lurky, except when I'm on vacation which has only happened once besides this time. I want to lay out the disclaimer that my playstyle kind of changes over time, but I'll lay out my games in order, as you can see I'm a spectacular player:

1. Newbie 1730 - To the North: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=67705 - Town VT (Lost in lylo, Transcend was also town in this game)
2. Normal Open 651 - Stack the Deck: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=67725 - Town VT (I replaced in and was later mod replaced... Town lost)
3. Newbie 1735 - Banana Split: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68000 - Town VT (Won, Jaereed also in this game, but he's modding this one so not really important).
4. Newbie 1738 - Desert Mafia: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68228 - Mafia goon (Won, TTTT was also in this game with me as my scum partner)
5. Newbie 1751 - Boot Camp: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68854 - Town VT (I was NK'd day 1, town lost, here TTTT was also in this game under his aka Loopdan, he was scum, Transcend also replaced in. This was an interesting game of town!Transcend)
6. Normal Open 656 - Tit for Tat: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=68703 - Town VT (I replaced in when it was MYLO and town won this).

And that's it, I believe for my completed games here. I bookmark every game I join, and I placed all of my closed games in an archive. Anyway, you'll notice that the game I was the most lurky in was 1735 and 1738 between Sept 6th to the 25th which was when I went on vacation traveling.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8310446
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8309659

Even then, you can't really say that I have low activity levels, even in my scum game. I post quite frequently, and end game always slows down, if you look at the end game for Normal 656, or Newbie 1730, both town games which I was around for completion, my posting slows down dramatically, mainly because I'm waiting on responses and there really isn't much to post during those times.

--------------

If you examine Transcend in 1751: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68854 his town ISO feels COMPLETELY different from this game. Also you can look over Transcend's past game as scum and see how good he is at wolfing if you look over his ISO:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=27478

Mafia chat for that game which RB was also in:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=68867

Something interesting to note that I found when I looked over RB's ISO in this game:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=28086

Notice anything similar? Image macros in his scum game, like this one, no image macros in his town game, ever.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=28086
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... B%5D=28086
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8318989 (One image macro placed here, rest 0 images)

Compare to this current game:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8549358 (Already posted 3 image macros, which is consistent with his scum game)

Coincidence? Probably not. I think this is a scum tick.

Kohai and LUV have not been easy to read, they appear like scum slots. LUV has a history of being mislynched as town, his past games as town show him being D1/D2 mislynched as VT, while Kohai has 0 games to look at. It's a new account and I'm sure he's a smurf by how familiar he is with this site and it's mechanics.

Ah I understand. For the record, I have far more thoughts that I want to post. The only issue is that I have to phonepost until tomorrow night; therefore, my posts will not be as in depth as i would prefer them to be.

He makes this post but you look at his ISO following, 48 hours later and he doesn't make any content to follow up like he said he would, then announces V/LA...

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8553593

Inb4 long garbage post comes out of scum!kohai...

Understand. Thanks for the clarification.

Do you possibly want to see my completed games as well?

Yes, please link me to your alternate so I can look over it.

VOTE: Transcend

Tone is rather off from previous town games I've been with him in, which gives me a very strong gut read that he's scum for this game.

*not a chicken/egg scenario but you know what i mean

oh frick i'm quadrupleposting sorry ):

anyway, i wanted to point out that town can sheep logic/be swayed by popular consensus too, and I understand that is a possible scenario. So yeah okay votes can either be town or scum.

I'll have to review it i suppose. Or look up VCA, because I don't think improvising completely is a good strategy. Or just stop and look elsewhere.

Impoetic I think you'll get more from VCA once we've got a flip and can compare your wagon vs whatever other wagons develop and ultimately succeed.

Looks like I'm going to have to compromise but I don't think I will mind, Iron's meta dive on rb was very convincing.

^Seems forced

health reasons = suffering too much anxiety trying to figure out a post to craft to get him out of the hole he's dug himself into after I called out his BS to link me to his other games and would rather dump the problem onto another player instead.

How is that reaching? You don't sus his slot at all?

You don't find it perfect timing that he replaces out after being called out for his endless V/LAs and asked to provide the proof that he said he would?

Look at the guy's ISO and tell me this isn't a fucking scummy ass replacement request.

I find it bizarre that you are jumping to his defense and trying to remove pressure from the slot. Did you both agree in day chat that it was the best move for him to replace out while you diffused the pressure off of him?

^Ironstone this is a crappy thing to say, really.

[Transcend]

shannon

why couldn't u have been town with me again > : (

[shannon]

We can't both be town if you are scum, dude

[shannon]

For anyone who's bothering to ISO:

Townreads:

Bunny Rabbit in 401
SSBM, Impoetic in 605 (and bunny still)
Ironstone in 813

Scum but not lynching for reasons stated: Transcend

[Transcend]

if u think im scum then come the fuck at me

u don't have to not lynch me bc someone else said it

[shannon]

Someone did a meta dive on me, LUL

Yeah, I just did, and I don't get why there's a wagon on you? Like, at all? The only thing I can come up with is that there are a few naked (or nearly nudie) votes and a bit of shitposting, but I can't see that as alignment indicative. The best case I've seen so far is the one about your image use being a scum tic, which is not exactly ironclad evidence.

[shannon]

My case would just be vibes, which is no case at all.

[ironstove]

Shanon is an aka?

[Transcend]

My case would just be vibes, which is no case at all.

and i have a vote on me already

why not strengthen that wagon tosee if your vibes are aaccurate or not

your play looks to careful and tactical

tonight's WWE match is shannon vs. the noose

who will be the winner?

my money's on the noose imo

[Transcend]

rb is still not town either btw

he's scum

very scum

oh so very scum

super duper scum

scummy mcscum scum

[Transcend]

so liek. . . . ...

still think drealmerz is a mislyhc haha hoo hoo hee hee

ironstove looks rlll werid ??!?!?!?!?

rabbit drone ttt ssbm still solid town bloc

kohai no idea..... i can usually get a half decent read on gerry so i wanna see what he provides for that slot.

rb's push on sesq is unforgivably awful and i think sesq is just bad town imo

i think impoetic's town but if someone wants to vig her then, BY ALL FUCKIN MEANS

[shannon]

Shanon is an aka?

An alt, you mean? No, I'm just me

My case would just be vibes, which is no case at all.

and i have a vote on me already

why not strengthen that wagon tosee if your vibes are aaccurate or not

your play looks to careful and tactical

tonight's WWE match is shannon vs. the noose

who will be the winner?

my money's on the noose imo

Yes, heaven forbid someone try to be tactical in mafia.

If I were going to be *Really* tactical I just wouldn't have mentioned it, and gone ahead and done something else.