New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball - [Game Over]

[Kagami]

My interest in the gamma vote thing also stems from your shadow townread, btw. If you were interested in saving him, voting gamma would be the way to do it, or presenting something more than "I think shadow is town," as a defense.

[The_Jester]

But Shadow didn't get lynched so I guess it worked.

[Kagami]

It worked in the same way my anti-tiger rock keeps tigers away from my house.

[The_Jester]

I still don't see your point. You're enforcing your playstyle on me while talking about actions that have already happened and can't be averted. If both Shadow and Gamma were at L-1, I would've voted for Gamma but that situation didn't happen thanks to Vedith.

[mhsmith0]

When I'm not sure the target will flip scum, yeah.

Can you point to a VT game like that? It was pretty easy for you to find such a game where you were a town PR, so I'm curious if you've got a good analogue as VT as well.

[MiniDeathStar]

Well, what in the PT is particularly convincing?

This is about my townread, right? I just doublechecked, I acknowledged in post #51 that all people who still thought he was scum were the people who thought *I* could be scum, too, and whose reads I knew sucked. Also Vedith thought he was town and I know Vedith can read Jester accurately.

Then he did some scumhunting on Dunn/Kagami/Arthur which I thought was genuine, and commented on mhsmith. He also asked me about Gamma. Other than that, he's adopted my fatalistic attitude to a degree and occasionally gloated about Human Sequencer's expression after we both flip town, which I thought was also genuine. There's also the fact he keeps 'testing' me every now and then and doesn't blindly accept that I'm town, which I think is not what scum!Jester would do (I think he'd try to butter me up instead).

Does he explain why he didn't vote gamma? How does he re-evaluate post-flip?

#31 he said one of Gamma/Vedith may be scum, because Vedith was being more mellow than he remembered him as town and Gamma was heavy on lurking and light on content.
#35 he said they can't both be scum
#65 he said he kind of wanted to vote Gamma because he only posted IIoA
#66 he commented on Shadow and asked me about Gamma
#104 he said he needed to reread Gamma and smith
#110 he said he didn't have enough info and claimed he was going to abstain from voting if he wasn't 100% convinced
#117 he made a short case on Gamma but didn't think it was good enough
#124 he said he wanted to vote Gamma but agreed with his point on Kagami so he wasn't sure which one to vote, but said one of them was scum
#135 he asked me for some meta on scum!Gamma
#150 he started thinking Gamma was a mislynch but not scum-orchestrated
Then Gamma and Vedith left and we both facepalmed and admitted we weren't too surprised by Gamma's flip, and we agreed Vedith's reads sucked
I don't think we've talked about Gamma since.

Why does he townread parama?

Never explained, but I don't think many people have.

And what are his thoughts re:smith?

#62 he agreed with me that smith wasn't impressing
#104 he said he had to reread him
#149 he said he kind of liked smith more (forgot what context though)
#203 he said his scumreads were smith, inspector and one of {Kagami, HS}
#224 he said smith went back to more of a null

Does that satisfy your curiosity?

[Kagami]

I still don't see your point. You're enforcing your playstyle on me while talking about actions that have already happened and can't be averted. If both Shadow and Gamma were at L-1, I would've voted for Gamma but that situation didn't happen thanks to Vedith.

How did vedith do the wrong thing if you were going to wait for L-1?

@MDS, when did 149 happen?

[The_Jester]

@smith I can't tbh cause that's what I started doing recently after several lolhammers on town and self-hammers. Still, I don't think it's a good idea to form your scumread on me basing on meta, especially that you've never played with me before. The only person here who could read me properly was Vedith, apart from Mini.

[MiniDeathStar]

@MDS, when did 149 happen?

Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:32 pm (GMT)

[mhsmith0]

@smith I can't tbh cause that's what I started doing recently after several lolhammers on town and self-hammers. Still, I don't think it's a good idea to form your scumread on me basing on meta, especially that you've never played with me before. The only person here who could read me properly was Vedith, apart from Mini.

Right now the primary issue I'm having isn't your meta directly (i.e. me comparing you to your meta, which I haven't paid nearly enough attention in order to do so accurately/confidently), but rather the fact that you're self-meta'ing, and were fine coming up with what you represented as a good example, but that was you as town PR, which for many people is different than their VT play.

Specifically, you said

I don't have a vote meta, sometimes I vote often and loosely, sometimes I abstain from being on lynch wagons for the whole game if I feel I'd put my hand to mislynches (see: Surrealism)

When I'm not sure the target will flip scum, yeah.

which implies that vote-abstaning IS a game-style thing for you (at least sometimes, and implied to not simply be a recent thing). So, you should then be able to support your self-meta outside of games you were a town PR, correct? Or am I misreading you?

[The_Jester]

I can't because I had a break and haven't played many games since then. 2 of them were scum and in others I haven't played optimally.

[mhsmith0]

But hey smith, the fact you only grace us with attention after a vote appears on you kind of says a lot.

So when you said "sometimes I abstain from being on lynch wagons for the whole game if I feel I'd put my hand to mislynches" what you really meant was "I've changed my playstyle, and even though I never used to do this, I'm going to start playing more like this going forward"? It just seems really weird that you'd word it as if it's something common that you'd do, and then be like "no wait nevermind, I just started doing this, and really I only did it once"

[Kagami]

The voting thing isn't so much a meta argument as a "this is a very convenient thing for scum to do" argument for which there's no meta counter argument for.

I don't understand why you're bringing up the PR thing, Smith, as the linked game doesn't actually address the concern. Shall I assume you didn't read it?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: mhsmith0-pieguyn

[mhsmith0]

The voting thing isn't so much a meta argument as a "this is a very convenient thing for scum to do" argument for which there's no meta counter argument for.

I don't understand why you're bringing up the PR thing, Smith, as the linked game doesn't actually address the concern. Shall I assume you didn't read it?

I looked at the first page, saw he was seer, and was like "lol this is totally irrelevant, as I wouldn't expect his seer play to be super comparable to his VT play". And since the comparison was irrelevant, I wasn't really interested to dig to see if the rest of his play addressed the argument since "he was seer there" itself should make it a mediocre at best defense.

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: mhsmith0-pieguyn

voting for me, pie, or both?

[Dunnstral]

You

[mhsmith0]

Because ___ ?

[mhsmith0]

VOTE: mhsmith-pieguyn

mhsmith is thoroughly underwhelming this game

^
that was your prior push on me, which is itself interesting since "smith isn't doing much" was essentially the logic used to mislynch me LAST game together, and I'd think that you more than anyone else would be naturally concerned about using the same logic here.

So, is it just that or more than that? If it's just that, why do you think it's not just null on me? And if it's more than that, what are your other reasons?

[Dunnstral]

I'll start off with Kagami and this is going to be the longest one and contain the most new info... also I'm going to mix in reads on other people a lot here so bear with me I'm not that organized

First of all I may or may not be biased and want her to be town

I don't really know what she's doing. I asked why she wasn't responding to shadow in my pt and she said there was nothing for her to respond to. Thing is I know she her reads did transition in the pt but it didn't show in the main thread and she isn't defending herself so it looks bad. (Says she's posted enough for reads to be interpret-able and pie will get it)

Speaking of the pt, she's active in there too. She's got 65 posts in the main thread and ~60 in the pt and I'm willing to bet that's more than anybody else's half here (might be partially my influence as well)

Going to summarize some of Kagami's thoughts that I don't think need to be hidden (I'm outing mine too so)

-Really early in thinks jesterpair is correct choice. I agree with this
-Early on she thinks one of shadow-mariar and and gamma-vedith are town-town
-This read has shifted to now scumreading gamma, and thinking shadow-maria might be town-town
-Also thinks the ic pairing is town, along with us and hs-parama
-I've voiced suspicions on HS (mostly in-thread and tying in Kagami) while Kagami thinks HS is town but parama might need to be looked at (still thinks they're t-t for now)
. . . -I think Parama is town but question HS. Don't think either of us would lynch this right now/today though
-Says that if she were scum, she'd have paired with sickofit instead of me who scumread her
-Points out that jester townreads shadow but doesn't vote gamma though he scumreads gamma
. . . -This prompted me to ask about him intending to place a vote
. . . -Kagami made a good point very recently saying that Jester's townread on Parama is weird considering the strong townread on Shadow from the start


Note that when I pushed kagami as scum nobody bit, to the point where it seemed like everyone just said she was "lean town" when (imo) the read wasn't deserved
Based off of this I want to feel as if I'm not being pushed at all because I'm paired with Kagami.
In response kagami said she was a little offended that I assumed she was a weak scum player

As for her scumreads, they're jester, gamma, and mhsmith maybe in that order

In response to me she said if mhsmith were scum he'd be spending a low amount of effort sorting out his pt
. . . -This prompted me to ask mhsmith about his pt, to which the response from him and pie was that they hadn't really done anything (pie noted that mhsmith was 'passive')


Just from reading i got a gut townread on pie (not terribly important)
I feel as if mhsmith is mafia. I also feel good about Gamma being mafia

I've come to townread S.A.D and kagami agrees here. We're both "meh" on inspectorscout though it's not something that needs to be sorted immediately.
. . . -Kagami thinks that if mhsmith is scum this pair is very likely t-t


And that's all I have effort to write for now; ended up just being about Kagami... don't regret

To sum up my other reads:

I scumread mhsmith. In fact;
VOTE: Mhsmith-Pieguy

I still scumread gamma pair

Kagami suspects Jester pair
Current thoughts on Kagami pending

This too but I can see why you wouldn't want to quote it

I didn't say you weren't doing anything (as in lurking out) You've been posting but it seems you post to not get lynched, rather than to find scum.

I don't know why you're confused by my vote, but you shouldn't be.

[Dunnstral]

Also the fact that you're not reading my posts and said something like "are me and pie the only ones who don't tr each other"

[Dunnstral]

Lol I'm starting to wonder if smith-pie is the only hood where both sides aren't just TRing each other.

[Cerberus v666]

Also the fact that you're not reading my posts and said something like "are me and pie the only ones who don't tr each other"

Speaking of that, Nahdia has her doubts about me. *shrug*

[Dunnstral]

Speaking of that, Nahdia has her doubts about me. *shrug*

This is the kind of thing better left to your pt and talked about if you guys aren't killed.

[Dunnstral]

What's your reasoning for mentioning that right now?