New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball - [Game Over]

[Dunnstral]

but now think Shadow-Parama pair is likely.

Probably not...

[mhsmith0]

Rather it IS fake because you just throw out vague things like that but then when I scumread your slot you turn on me pretty hard when you were ignoring me before

Because your reasoning was stupid, and very possibly fake.

[Dunnstral]

I disagree. My reasoning is fine.

[Dunnstral]

And anyone who agrees with me ^ should be voting mhsmith.

[mhsmith0]

I disagree. My reasoning is fine.

Your reasoning was terrible. The idea that my push on Maria was somehow hypocritical with the post I'd made a few minutes before is incredibly lazy, both in terms of what I was actually saying (since, again, the context was in no way hard to understand), and the idea that you think I'd as scum be likely to be flagrantly hypocritical about something just a few minutes after I'd made the post that supposedly makes my Maria question hypocritical. Or maybe you think I'm just ridiculously sloppy as scum?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Shadow-maria is a cowbeaten to death already

I really am having a hard time understanding why is is relevant at all.

Like because he was suspected early on, managed to dodge being lynched by acting aggressive, insulting people, and playing the "too scummy to be scum" card, and his wagon lost steam, he automatically became town?

As I said before none of what he has done changes his original alignment. The only thing that happened is he made a big raging scene and now went back to lurking when he feels he's no longer in the ~danger~ zone of being lynched.

Like he's happy just sitting by right now while town continues to focus on other stuff. He's already done his job of dodging his lynch and AtEing to Maria in his PT. Not like he has to bother himself with solving the game or anything, because, yknow...

[mhsmith0]

Your pushing on pie looks fake

Ps I'm null on pie, which ought to be relatively obvious at this point.

[Dunnstral]

The idea that my push on Maria was somehow hypocritical with the post I'd made a few minutes before is incredibly lazy

I don't remember ever saying that.

[Dunnstral]

Your pushing on pie looks fake

Ps I'm null on pie, which ought to be relatively obvious at this point.

Yea. One of the reasons I started voting you. Then you fake went "it might be pie" but never tried to figure her out

[mhsmith0]

Your pushing on pie looks fake

Ps I'm null on pie, which ought to be relatively obvious at this point.

Yea. One of the reasons I started voting you. Then you fake went "it might be pie" but never tried to figure her out

This suggests that there is substantial evidence that I could have used to figure her out. Remind me what such evidence is? Or do you mean I should have been more active in our shared PT?

[Dunnstral]

Alright, I'm down for dunn. [unofficial]

ok,

Accept Dunn.

This should be interesting.

Grand total of 3 minutes to decide.

Actually I kinda want to know from all the ladies who didn't talk about it ITT:

What made you accept your partners, both in terms of who you picked and when (especially those that made a relatively quick choice)?

Why did you drop this?

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Seriously, someone read Shadow's posts since around after Vedith dance leave and tell me which of them read at all like anything demonstrating person who's scumhunting or interested in solving the game.

Spoiler:

VOTE: kagami

Cerb where will you be voting today?

I'm sure there is one scum in Kagami/Dunn

Kagami continues to not address my questions

Then there is this

VOTE: Jester-Pair

VOTE: Shadow Pair

VOTE: Gamma pair

VOTE: jester pair

VOTE: gamma

VOTE: No Lynch

That's a lot of hollow votes, and they all happen to be on the safest wagons of the day. The Shadow vote in 1622 is especially interesting because Dunn said Kagami was allegedly townreading that pair at the time.

The town-shadow explanation there is that he finds Cerb's behavior odd and was poking at oddities without really thinking through the implications of them, which weighs against the probability that scum-shadow was poking at him in an effort to appear townish and did so in a very clumsy way. I don't think it's quite the smoking gun Parama is making it out to be, but meh.

That was a pretty bad sheeping on the Shadow case and pinged me right away. Funny thing is she had been calling him scummy for a while at that point but not actually voting him.

I still don't like jester's early play and I don't have any terribly fuzzy feeling about MDS either. I think scum-MDS would probably have held out for just a bit, but if there was already a pre-established pairing plan, that may have itself looked suspicious. Jester's "In fact I know you do, therefore my question should be: are you brave enough?" bit makes a show of saying "I'm totes going to be sorting you (because I am town)," which is counterproductive to any real attempt to establish a read. I'm treating 17 as a joke, but I find it strange that no one jumped on that. It's exactly the sort of low-hanging-fruit comment that usually attracts a scumread nibble. I'm also concerned that pretty much everyone had jester/mds as some level of scumread, but they didn't get any real attention at dance-start.

I kind of wish I'd noticed this part earlier because that's literally the same sort of nitpicking that made me scumread Jester in the beginning and mhsmith in the middle of Yesterday. FYI: I admitted pre-dance that Jester can read me like an open book. The "brave enough" was obviously a joke playing on that. We were scum together recently and he noticed I was scum before even looking at his role PM. Like literally 2 pages into the game.


Regardless, Kagami's reads started looking suspiciously similar to Dunn's at that point and I voiced my concern, which Dunn agreed with. Then, this happened:

@Whoever mentioned read-cloning: my internalization is that dunn's reads followed mine, with mismatches as to who was scummy but general agreement on which pairs were likely to include scum.

"Whoever mentioned my read-cloning" was Dunn. Hi.
Does anyone seriously buy that explanation? Dunn scumreads my pair, so does she. Dunn scumreads Shadow, so does she. Dunn scumreads Gamma, so does she. Dunn thinks Vedith is town, she changes her mind and says he's town after having called him scum. No, Dunn's reads definitely didn't follow Kagami's, it was the opposite.

Before accusing Kagami in the village thread, I asked Jester in private something like (paraphrasing)...

Mini:

Is Dunn easy to fool? I think Kagami's either pocketing him or blindly sheeping his reads (because she *is* transparently agreeing with him)

And he said no, Dunn's a great player as either alignment, so I figured she'd be the one sheeping Dunn and I was right.

By the way Kagami, what happened to this?

I would be shocked if gamma and shadow are both town, I'm just unsure who should leave first, since one pair being scum somewhat implies the other town. Part of me wants to channel our charming mod, who would probably just want to lynch them all and let the mod sort them out.

HS, I think it's jester-gamma-?, though I don't disagree that shadow pair deserves death regardless of alignment.

Gamma's town. What does that make of Shadow? I thought your townread on that pair depended on Gamma being scum, but you said you'd vote them out "regardless of alignment". Why are you no-lynching right now?

I think we should just flip a scummo and work from there.

VOTE: No Lynch

Like, feel free to vote me off, but when you see I'm town, this is the lady you need to start looking at. And that includes you, Dunn.

The dude literally told someone.

In the middle of thread what translated to "Go ahead and leave the dance coward"

If it was literally anyone else who has not been acting like a complete asshole you would've scumread it right?

But no. He plays the "too scummy to be scum" card. And you're like "Shaddddddowwwww-samaaaaaa please shadddddddowwww-sama why are you such a beacon of innocence please say more nice words to me in the PT"

SAD's posts are just sad misreps.

Notice how SAD has completely ignored HS and Parama's cry outs for a lynch/flip.

I make a single line about asking vedith to leave(he was dead set on doing it anyway). I was confident of a Gamma scum slip ,and hell breaks loose.

I'm not no lynching because I'm certain there is scum in kagami/dunn

That's to Cerb who is pro NL.

Oh yes, of course, my entire case is that shadow scumslipped, that's all it is, and nothing more.
Nice misrep!

What else is there to it?

alright let's stop the misrep and see where my reads actually are huh?

lock town:
{arthur, parama}

probably town:
{smith, pie, scout, kagami}

unsure:
{dunn, cerb, mds}

scummy scum:
{shadow, mariar, jester}

that leaves a whole six slots to find scum in, and only 4 of them are paired.
are you going to rethink your stance now that you have more detailed information, or do you think 2735 is still a valid post with valid points?

Have you taken issue with one of your lock town voting the other lock town?

[mhsmith0]

The idea that my push on Maria was somehow hypocritical with the post I'd made a few minutes before is incredibly lazy

I don't remember ever saying that.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8602415

The idea that I'd intentionally push Maria essentially for doing what I'd just finished saying that town should do is basically an accusation of hypocrisy. You actually accused me of "setting up" for a push on her from the earlier post, which I guess is actually a different accusation, though also equally dumb, especially given the context of my meta with her and the fact that it was a very clear request for info rather than an attack. It was super reachy on your end.

[Dunnstral]

Your pushing on pie looks fake

Ps I'm null on pie, which ought to be relatively obvious at this point.

Yea. One of the reasons I started voting you. Then you fake went "it might be pie" but never tried to figure her out

This suggests that there is substantial evidence that I could have used to figure her out. Remind me what such evidence is? Or do you mean I should have been more active in our shared PT?

You're making assumptions about people pushing your slot without considering it's alignment. What if you're town and pie is scum?

Rather it's the opposite; you're slipping and know pie is town and using that knowledge.

[Dunnstral]

The idea that my push on Maria was somehow hypocritical with the post I'd made a few minutes before is incredibly lazy

I don't remember ever saying that.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p8602415

The idea that I'd intentionally push Maria essentially for doing what I'd just finished saying that town should do is basically an accusation of hypocrisy. You actually accused me of "setting up" for a push on her from the earlier post, which I guess is actually a different accusation, though also equally dumb, especially given the context of my meta with her and the fact that it was a very clear request for info rather than an attack. It was super reachy on your end.

I don't see how it's an accusation of "hypocrisy"

You made a scummy post and then a scummy push on a popular wagon

[mhsmith0]

Alright, I'm down for dunn. [unofficial]

ok,

Accept Dunn.

This should be interesting.

Grand total of 3 minutes to decide.

Actually I kinda want to know from all the ladies who didn't talk about it ITT:

What made you accept your partners, both in terms of who you picked and when (especially those that made a relatively quick choice)?

Why did you drop this?

Because none of the answers given were all that interesting, and it didn't seem like it was going to go anywhere.

[Dunnstral]

No you said that town would be more likely to give up, while scum would fight their lynch

You then said Maria fighting her lynch was unusual

[inspectorscout]

@mhsmith: now that you think im town, lets look back again
What do you think of me questioning the IC?

[mhsmith0]

Your pushing on pie looks fake

Ps I'm null on pie, which ought to be relatively obvious at this point.

Yea. One of the reasons I started voting you. Then you fake went "it might be pie" but never tried to figure her out

This suggests that there is substantial evidence that I could have used to figure her out. Remind me what such evidence is? Or do you mean I should have been more active in our shared PT?

You're making assumptions about people pushing your slot without considering it's alignment. What if you're town and pie is scum?

Rather it's the opposite; you're slipping and know pie is town and using that knowledge.

I'm evaluating people's pushes on me from the perspective of knowing they're wrong, at least about myself.

Twisting that into the idea that because I'm pushing back on people pushing in me, I'm therefore slipping knowledge that pie is town isn't even reachy so much as nonsensical.

[mhsmith0]

@mhsmith: now that you think im town, lets look back again
What do you think of me questioning the IC?

I think it was stupid. I thought that it was a possibly indicative moment, but am increasingly thinking it was just you doing something dumb, and opposed to you having an actual perspective slip where you were imitating a town process and letting your wires cross by accidentally "scum-hunting" the IC.

[Dunnstral]

It's not reachy

You say I'm scum because I'm pushing you. That implies that you believe pie is town, unless you think I'm bussing pie by pushing you

[mhsmith0]

No you said that town would be more likely to give up, while scum would fight their lynch

You then said Maria fighting her lynch was unusual

FOR HER. I said it was unusual FOR HER. And rather than use that as a cudgel to bash her with, I asked her to provide evidence as to whether my meta read on her was correct. Congratulations, you have discovered my attempt to sort her. Good work.

[Dunnstral]

What do you think about people if pie is scum?

[mhsmith0]

It's not reachy

You say I'm scum because I'm pushing you. That implies that you believe pie is town, unless you think I'm bussing pie by pushing you

No, I'm saying I think that your read is me is sufficiently nonsensical that I'm increasingly sketicpial you actually believe it. That you are pushing me is not why I suspect you. That you are pushing me for terrible reasoning is why I suspect you.

And that is independent from whether pie is town or not.

[Dunnstral]

You keep acting like the only reason I'm pushing you is the Maria thing, when I've layed out other reasoning. That's scummy.