Mini 1857 Mod Topic

[JaeReed]

You just want the players to lose faith in me so you can take over ;p

[mhsmith0]

Mwa ha ha

[mastin2]

Speculation: the universal backup is put in a neighbourhood so they can proxy results through their neighbour. I.e. the neighbour pretends to be the PR and can avoid being roleblocked, as well as soak the kill.

Bingo.

Sadly, not in THIS town.

[mhsmith0]

Speculation: the universal backup is put in a neighbourhood so they can proxy results through their neighbour. I.e. the neighbour pretends to be the PR and can avoid being roleblocked, as well as soak the kill.

Bingo.

Sadly, not in THIS town.

Lolololololololol

[JaeReed]

It's kinda how I feel about it too, mastin xP

[mhsmith0]

I'm not quite ready to lock it in 100%, but I feel like rask probably playing his scum game. Thoughts?

[mastin2]

Well you're posting that in the mod PT which contains spoilers.

[mhsmith0]

obligatory

[mastin2]

Also, in hindsight: game's probably a scum win.
The roleblocker with no refunds effectively nullifies one of the JOAT's useful powers OR entirely nullifies the backup OR nullifies half the follower's power, while also being a good block on the doc as well.
The strongman is a good counter to a full-doc, but kinda shitty when up against an activated-BP.
The third scum power is pretty useless, sure, but those two powers alone can be pretty devastating.

Yes, this game is turning out to be the worst-case scenario for the town: ALL their powers outed D2, scum still have the roleblock, and the town is thinking of lynching nobody except for their own damn PRs. They have nobody except themselves to blame for that. So I can't really say that's our fault as reviewers.

But the fact that we're going to see the absolutely BRUTAL combination of JOAT-gone, backup-wasted-via-block, follower-wasted-seeing-nothing, a false guilty created, and maybe the second neighbor dead, leads to a gamestate where the town is going to do nothing but mislynch 2-3 days

in a row

purely because they aren't thinking: "What does this setup need to counter a scum strongman?" (Which THEY KNOW WAS IN THE GAME.) The answer--quite a lot.

[mastin2]

(Also, the town is going to have NO roles whatsoever after they've finished mislynching their entire fucking power role base, because...they just mislynched their entire fucking power role base. So without any roles whatsoever, the game becomes mountainous, and we all know how towns fare in that.)

[mhsmith0]

The roleblocker gets just one shot, which is certainly useful (potentially), but was never guaranteed to hit a PR since NORMALLY you kinda expect the role cop to need to be used first.

Follower get a semi-clear on shannon (a VT), and realistically can tonight hit either the goon making the kill or the RB blocking someone, or the JOAT/doc doing pro-town actions (like, odds are pretty decent that ONE of those things will be the result of N2 follow)

UB can potentially get a gunsmith inno/guilty tonight unless shot

Doc can still stop a shot

Functionally, town power is in perfectly fine shape (despite the N1 loss), scum's role cop becomes largely wasted (since PR's have outed - not sure if all or not because lol reading), so scum's power is the NK and a 1-shot RB that they may or may not use effectively.

Like, just presuming the town PRs are all outed (and if so, did "shannon do nothing" get outed, and if so, why is she still a wagon???????), fundamentally town OUGHT to be in a pretty cushy position. If they blow it by mislynching their PRs for no good reaosn, then lolwillage.

[JaeReed]

What mastin said is indeed what I foresee happening. That said town loss this game will be entirely their fault.

Uzi outed that shannon went nowhere early in the day. Impoetic pointed that out but she won't do anything about it because she lacks any amount of confidence in her reads and opinions.

All PRs except the doctor is outed at this point. And town if they flip off shannon will likely go to him (gerryoat) despite him having been on rb early on replace in and the attempted counterwagon by TTTT.

People are suggesting LUV follow Titus tonight and Titus claim to her neighbour what action she's taking and the target. Scum will just roleblock Titus and this town will take it for a guilty between LUV/Titus.

[mhsmith0]

If Titus gets "no result" then that's pretty clearly a roleblock tho.

I suppose the fundamental issue is that towns are lazy and want to manufacture dipoles instead of doing the actual work of game-solving and reading people.

Which is why towns need what I consider a ridiculous amount of power in these games to even tread water. And then from time to time someone overdoes it and you get something silly like NY198.

[mhsmith0]

FWIW, towns are now 0-2 in my mini normals, and in each case it was won by a really sketchy fakeclaim by scum (sonia fake-claiming cop in LYLO in 1823, cloud fake-claiming 1-shot BG in 1843).

[mastin2]

Incidentally I witnessed both.

[mhsmith0]

So did I

[mhsmith0]

That second one just DRAAAAGGGGGGEEEEEDDDDDDD though

[mastin2]

Incidentally, I was in Inu-Yasha, and I don't remember the friendly neighbor changing their claim.
I remember them claiming, strictly, two shots and to have used both.
One on a dead player, the second on a player who was scum.

I mean. The two-shot friendly neighbor ended up being a fakeclaim. (To the point where I made it a safeclaim in Hilariously Unbalanced Mafia 2, in which my safeclaims were literally "these are roles which could have been in the setup but aren't because you have them as your claims". As in, something I almost put in as a 'hey that is not a bad idea!' role.)

But I don't remember the claim actually CHANGING.
Just...being used in the scummiest way possible because the user was...scum.
(Of course that game featured lolsecretmultiball, so.)

[mhsmith0]

Intersting that rask is investing in setup spec. I still hold 1844 wasn't town sided, it just looked that way due to good town night actions and bad scum night actions. In a game where there are a bunch of just ok town roles, role cop really helps narrow down who to kill. Also scum got n1 knowledge of the neighborizer, and had Day talk.

[JaeReed]

N2 night actions so far:

Titus Gunsmith checks Impoetic.
Raskolnikov roleblocks Titus.
Raskolnikov kills TTTT.
gerryoat docs Titus.

If nothing changes:

Titus GS check Impoetic. Failure (roleblocked): No result.
Raskolnikov roleblocks Titus. Success: Titus is roleblocked.
Raskolnikov kills TTTT. Success: TTTT dies.
gerryoat docs Titus.

Titus has used all shots of her UB role.
Raskolnikov has 1-shot rolecop remaining.

[JaeReed]

Also @everyone with "the theme of the setup seems to be x-shot" I don't do themes. I wanted a setup with neighbours, daychat, and scum bussing options without screwing them over completely rolewise. I'd imagine people would think the opposing JOATs was the starting point, but it wasn't =P

[JaeReed]

Rask I hope you're happy... You've just made someone with OCD late opening the thread.

And no one knows just how much that bothers me.

[JaeReed]

N2 actions:

Titus Gunsmith checks Impoetic. (FAILED: NO RESULT)
Raskolnikov roleblocks Titus. (SUCCESS)
Sesq kills drealmerz7. (SUCCESS)
gerryoat docs Titus. (SUCCESS)

Titus now has no remaining shots.
Raskolnikov has 1-shot rolecop remaining.

[mhsmith0]

I got no result on my gs check. I am treating this as a guilty on the target. Result at midday.

oh dear

[mastin2]

Why

do

so many Normal game players expect vigs in the game?
I see this across COUNTLESS Normal games. Talk of vig targets.
Yet vigs, especially ungated, are one of the rarest Normal roles to see use.
As a reviewer, I can say I almost never see them as part of a setup.
They crop up every once and a while, especially as 2-shots (or, in a game with lots of killstopping power, 1-shot), but vigs basically never exist in Normals. They add swing like almost no other role. (They're up there with cops and watchers in how swingy they are. The difference being, vigs usually shoot town but are ICs the moment they claim because scum vigs are blacklisted. So, they kill town in exchange for being confirmed as town.)