New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball - [Game Over]

[inspectorscout]

@scout yeah might as well just roll the dice! L M A O

no need to

I have laid out a secret path to where scum is
maybe you can find it

[Kagami]

Pie, can you give me a tl;dr on smith-town?

[pieguyn]

Pie, can you give me a tl;dr on smith-town?

I have doubts that his emotional reaction to me back when we pushed each other end-of-D1 comes from him as scum. apart from that I really am just having second thoughts because he strikes me as someone who is similar to myself in that they don't like playing scum and have trouble remaining actively invested and engaged in games when they're scum, and if I look at his play this game day in general I really just don't take issue with it in the same way I took issue with his early-D1 play.

it's difficult for me to point out specifics; I mostly am thinking in terms of "his play doesn't look like scum". if anything I would like if you/anyone else could try to sell me why they think he's scum and I'd evaluate it.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Interestingly, you and inspector are the only ones here who think *I* am the scum and not Jester. Did you came up with that independently or did one persuade the other in your lover PT?

I mean we did talk about it in the PT, yes. I guess you can call it group polarization if you would like, though I think at some point in time we did reach the conclusion that you're scum independently, but were made more confident of it by talking to each other.

As for Jester, his flip right now would be a coin flip. Having ISOed him, I see no posts that give me a strong reaction in any direction. His lack of activity is not alignment indicative. What HS claims that he's lurking and comes in to chime, etc, I don't see it at all. Scum would be putting more effort into the game, town would be putting more effort into the game. How people have a strong desire for your pair to get lynched because they want Jester lynched is seriously beyond me - the only possible reason I can understand is "We need to get him out before a possible lylo because can't have a null deciding lylo", but no, some people have serious scumreads on him which is bizarre.

[Human Sequencer]

VOTE: Arthur/scout
I'm confident in Jester/MDS T/T now, and although Parama has acted quite scummy, he's had a few posts that do not logically come from scumParama (Thank you to Pieguyn for pointing out 4095 and wriggling some analysis out of me)

Scout has been badposting a lot, and I still definitely believe there's at least one scum in {parama, arthur} for the shadow push. Although parama looks far worse on the shadow wagon and post shadow flip, again, parama has said some things that just don't make sense coming from scum, and was townread by far more dead townies than Arthur.

The one and only thing that gives me pause is Nahdia scumreading Jester/MDS.

[Human Sequencer]

^oh yeah, and pie/smith is still town with an asterisk on smith

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

parama has said some things that just don't make sense coming from scum, and was townread by far more dead townies than Arthur.

Oh right you made this point earlier and I forgot to comment on it. But idk why you're trying to insinuate? Vedith/Gamma died because Vedith left dance, I had a Shadow scumread wayyyy before Shadow or Maria scumread me, and Nahdia-Cerb died because half IC pair. Like even if I were scum and in a similar situation I would have killed Nahdia-Cerb because they're IC pair, not because they're scumreading me. I don't get ~scared~ of people scumreading me, I actually enjoy it a lot more because it lets me interact with people and better figure out their alignments (hence why I hate being IC).

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Also you're the one who came out of the gate during this day and said Parama's reaction during night in your PT looked fabricated, how do you turn around and do this:

parama has said some things that just don't make sense coming from scum

[Human Sequencer]

I wasn't implying you killed IC pair because you were scared of them, I was trying to say that we should put some weight on the reads of confirmed townies.

If you would read my posts today, you would realize that I have drastically changed my mind on almost every slot in the game over this day phase, and reasons as to why.

[pieguyn]

VOTE: Arthur/scout
I'm confident in Jester/MDS T/T now, and although Parama has acted quite scummy, he's had a few posts that do not logically come from scumParama (Thank you to Pieguyn for pointing out 4095 and wriggling some analysis out of me)

Scout has been badposting a lot, and I still definitely believe there's at least one scum in {parama, arthur} for the shadow push. Although parama looks far worse on the shadow wagon and post shadow flip, again, parama has said some things that just don't make sense coming from scum, and was townread by far more dead townies than Arthur.

The one and only thing that gives me pause is Nahdia scumreading Jester/MDS.

calm yourself.

I'm not entirely convinced Jester/MDS is town/town. I'm seriously considering it, but I'm nowhere near believing that's the gamestate we are, in fact, in.

scout is actually one of my two lock-town reads atm (you being the other); his arguments are bad but I think the way he's going about it and his conviction is very town.

how do you think this game works with both of those pairs as town and my pair as town/town-with-an-asterisk? does that mean you think Kagami/Dunn actually is a scum/scum pair?

[inspectorscout]

I wasn't implying you killed IC pair because you were scared of them, I was trying to say that we should put some weight on the reads of confirmed townies.

If you would read my posts today, you would realize that I have drastically changed my mind on almost every slot in the game over this day phase, and reasons as to why.

How about putting weight on the reads of those that were right?

VOTE: Arthur/scout
I'm confident in Jester/MDS T/T now, and although Parama has acted quite scummy, he's had a few posts that do not logically come from scumParama (Thank you to Pieguyn for pointing out 4095 and wriggling some analysis out of me)

Scout has been badposting a lot, and I still definitely believe there's at least one scum in {parama, arthur} for the shadow push. Although parama looks far worse on the shadow wagon and post shadow flip, again, parama has said some things that just don't make sense coming from scum, and was townread by far more dead townies than Arthur.

The one and only thing that gives me pause is Nahdia scumreading Jester/MDS.

clarify 'badposting'

; his arguments are bad but I think the way he's going about it and his conviction is very town

and there she goes again.
We'll see who actually is the VI in the end.

[Human Sequencer]

I'm calm, just bad at mafia.

I feel like mds' behaviour has just been her intentionally acting scummy so that their pair can get lynched and removed from the game peacefully. I feel like her asking so many times whether she was ok to leave was just her gauging the waters to see if town would mind. I believe minimal conflict is her win condition in this game, even above her role PM.

I don't understand the latter part of that post. I don't think there's three T/T pairs?

[inspectorscout]

She asked you if you believe that there is a maf/maf pair.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I wasn't implying you killed IC pair because you were scared of them, I was trying to say that we should put some weight on the reads of confirmed townies.

No, we shouldn't. I'll trust my reads over anyone else's any day. Just because someone is confirmed town doesn't mean their reads mean anything. You can go ahead and preach about dead people's reads all you want, and if that's who you want to sheep go ahead. But as for me, I will only listen to myself and people who seem really competent about the game, whether they're dead or not, whether they're confirmed town or not.

If you would read my posts today, you would realize that I have drastically changed my mind on almost every slot in the game over this day phase, and reasons as to why.

Okay, so do you still think Parama's reaction during night was contrived or not? Can you please point me to some posts she has made today that you feel "scum can't make"? Because all I see is the terrible push on me.

[pieguyn]

I'm calm, just bad at mafia.

I feel like mds' behaviour has just been her intentionally acting scummy so that their pair can get lynched and removed from the game peacefully. I feel like her asking so many times whether she was ok to leave was just her gauging the waters to see if town would mind. I believe minimal conflict is her win condition in this game, even above her role PM.

I don't understand the latter part of that post. I don't think there's three T/T pairs?

you basically laid out in that post that you thought Jester/MDS was town/town and that Parama was town. I'm asking how you reconcile this game with all of that - you voted SAD, but where are all the other scum?

I have considered at one point that Jester/MDS is a scum pair with MDS being the scum instead of Jester, but the way she is playing this is pretty ridiculous if she is scum. she has spent the entire game expressing the same "frustrated that town is being stupid and lynching someone I'm sure is town" mindset that you want to town read Jester for, and on top of that I really just don't get the sense that her consistent belief that she needed to be gone before endgame was feigned or something she had made up for town cred.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

I feel like her asking so many times whether she was ok to leave was just her gauging the waters to see if town would mind.

Umm, that's partly exactly why I'm scumreading her. She's trying to demonstrate she's town via acting in a way that town wouldn't think scum would act. But the fact she has went over it so many times while still seeming survivalistic at points indicates to me she's intentionally doing this. She seems like a nice person, and I understand that. However from my POV it still looks like she's heavily employing a certain playstyle to appeal to town. She's here enough that she could spend the time to instead scumhunt more. I think in her catch up she mentioned something about people not caring when she posts reads or something, but that is most def not true. In fact, the few glimpses of her I liked was early on in like the first day when she seemed to actively be trying to figure out the game and I thought it was looking genuine.

[pieguyn]

MDS' vote for the last part of D1 was a serious vote on herself, through the point when she had a large wagon on herself that was very viable and until the day ended.

I don't think that's feigned.

[pieguyn]

also, it is reasonable that she would hold the belief that no one cares about her reads when she's been pushing Jester-town the entire game and no one except Vedith gave her any time of day about this read.

if there's scum in the pair it definitely is Jester, it's just a question of whether she is scum or not.

[pieguyn]

also, it is reasonable that she would hold the belief that no one cares about her reads when she's been pushing Jester-town the entire game and no one except Vedith gave her any time of day about this read.

if there's scum in the pair it definitely is Jester, it's just a question of whether he is scum or not.

EBWOP

[Kagami]

MDS' vote for the last part of D1 was a serious vote on herself, through the point when she had a large wagon on herself that was very viable and until the day ended.

I don't think that's feigned.

I don't find your reason compelling here.

[pieguyn]

MDS' vote for the last part of D1 was a serious vote on herself, through the point when she had a large wagon on herself that was very viable and until the day ended.

I don't think that's feigned.

I don't find your reason compelling here.

what am I missing?

[Kagami]

2655 remains the best reason to possibly townread that pair, to my mind.

I still find it pretty incredibly that a town-player whose only strong position has been "Shadow-Maria is town" produces 3706 and 3719. On the other hand, it's not really any less crazy that scum-jester produces them.

[Kagami]

what am I missing?

I don't think she was in terrible danger, especially after the you-smith interaction, and retracting a self-vote is very easy.

[Kagami]

self-voting is not really a self-destructive behavior in a game where you can suicide at will.

[Kagami]

Would be nice if there was some way I could just kill everyone who complained about 4081-4085.

I can barely read games on the weekend and VCs don't happen often, not super complicated.