Mini Normal 1857 Dead Thread

[mastin2]

Also, even if by some miracle I was able to magically appear in every place right now where this problem exists and offer a solution for it...

...Well...

...Sure, that'd fix the problem for our current generation of players.

The next generation of players would come quickly enough that within a month, my lesson would be lost because SO many new players arrive and don't pay particularly close attention to those prior games that they wouldn't have even the slightest clue of my magnificent achievement and what it meant for the site. And those new players would then need help. Help, which if I wasn't around to give, they wouldn't get.

So it's not like I can magically press a button, be everywhere I need to be, and the problem will vanish for good.

It is a continuous problem, so the solution for it needs to be a continuous solution, and I simply don't think a person like me with my psychology is capable of maintaining anything of that magnitude.

Meaning, while I might know of the problem and even have my ideas on how to possibly potentially fix it, I cannot realistically implement it and thus, my role is ultimately, insignificant by and large.

And literally every player who knows of the problem has basically the same mindset: "I know this is the problem. I know what the theoretical solution is. But I can't handle implementation of it."

This is yet another example of why fighting for a lost cause is something worth doing: just because we can't be all of the solution doesn't mean we shouldn't still try to be PART of the solution. So I DO help out wherever I can. I will give the advice whenever I am able to. I will teach, I will lecture, I will give useful commentary, and I will give people reflections off of my experience.

And if every player who knew of the problem did this, well...we wouldn't be able to get RID of the problem. But we'd be mitigating it to the point where it'd be a much smaller problem than it currently is. So while the problem's never going away fully, I still think we can get it less than what it is, and have that as a realistic goal. Just by being aware of the problem, and doing whatever small part we can to be a part of the solution.

[JaeReed]

Yup. One person can't change things much, but even a handful of people trying to work towards that goal I think helps immensely. Not least of all because some of those newbies who come in and listen to the teachings are more likely to try to pass it on themselves (though this has the issue of some things being lost or garbled in translation, so to speak).

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Has the Hydra thing given any results?

[JaeReed]

Hydra thing?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The Hydra Academy. I notice a lot of players doing it.

[mastin2]

Teaching hydras rarely work as intended.
I know I've had at least one or two, where I intended to be the background person, not once, not ONCE posting in-thread, being purely an adviser in the game to teach...
...And ended up being the ONLY poster in the hydra.

[drealmerz7]

Yeah he claimed 1 shot tracker as 2 shot follower.

Then town setup specced, decided it was unbelievable, started running him up, and he claimed for real as 2 shot follower.

on my HS he would have been lynched on the spot for claiming the result he did when he did
if I'd not had more experience with MS culture I'd have flipped my shit he wasn't autolynched pretty much

[drealmerz7]

The problem with the mindset of "lol just get better at being town its not that hard pshah", is that those who take that mindset are

massively

underestimating--and I do mean MASSIVELY underestimating--the sheer natural, inherent advantage scum hold in a game just by having the abilities scum naturally do.

holy shit I drop some HUGE fucking WOTs quite often but that's a biggun, I haven't read it all yet but to respond to this:

absolutely, I didn't mean to imply it was easy, it takes effort and repetition, and going through the brutal grind of it all

I think part of my skill (which isn't that outstanding or anything) comes from rolling VT 90% of my games in my first year of playing.

[drealmerz7]

mastin I want to play with you you know what is up it seems you need to teach lessons on MS for ppls

or, play games more so ppl learn from your influences

once I have the ability to focus more I'm going to try and preach more theory as I game

I do often enough but I'd do it wayyy more if I weren't stretched so think atm

[drealmerz7]

I come from a HS where a lot of the players have played a long time, and in meat-world games, and it's very very small community. Noob players who observe 1 or 2 games are better players there than the majority here that I see, I must say.

I've also played some (very little) meat-world games. And some 1NightWW

[rb]

Mastin hit it on the head because the game is already spoiled for her, lol

Post-game everyone has 20/20 vision. I dunno, I mean mastin has a way different outlook and style and it's my natural instinct to think she's probably not as good at mafia as the length of her posts imply

I barely agree with any of it because it's all very nice and logical - but humans are emotional, irrational, illogical, fearful and in a small and pressurised environment like a mafia game you don't find scum or win the game because you're the most logical.

You're witch-hunting, and witch hunters don't need to make the most sense they just need to be able to manipulate the most people into doing their bidding.

Plus logic is always a closed system - the output just reflects the input and in the case of humans, all the flaws the have in the application of the process in between

[mastin2]

mastin I want to play with you you know what is up it seems you need to teach lessons on MS for ppls
or, play games more so ppl learn from your influences

Well in that regard, you know the description for Waver Velvet?
"It can be said in comparison to running that he could never be an athlete because his leg strength is among the absolute worst, but his talents can shine as a coach because he can imagine the perfect running form."

...In terms of playing the game of mafia? Yeah that's basically me. Sure, I'm this good player

in theory

, because I know and understand the game at a deep level which few others do. In reality, there's a damn good reason why few people actually tolerate me. I'm not someone who does well in games. I do well in coaching, but only because I'm not playing the game. I can teach someone how to become a god-tiered scumhunter. I am not myself a god-tiered scumhunter. My students surpass me given time.

So I'd love to, but people would only find disappointment when they discover I'm not nearly all I'm cracked up to be. As a teacher I might excel, but as a player I am thoroughly mediocre.

[mastin2]

Practical demonstration: this isn't an atypical mastina game.
What I did well: I had an initial good read on one scum. I was immensely obvtown to the whole game. I STRONGLY defended against the D2 mislynch. I ended up nuking scum. (One of only three town players to do so.) I died because I was nuked by scum. (One of only three town players to be targeted by a scum nuke.) I correctly named three of the five endgame players (Vi, Nahdia, LLD) as town and would have fought to save their lives.

What I didn't do well: I was obnoxious the whole game. I reversed my good read on said scum to be wrong. (Admittedly so did the rest of the game.) I strongly defended against the D1 lynch on scum. I had three of the five scum near the top of my townreads the majority of the game. I recalled my nuke on scum. I ended up nuking town. I failed to recall said nuke on town. I had incorrect reads on the other two endgame players. (SpyreX, rather than UT, was my scumread. So instead of losing by lynching LLD, I'd have lost by lynching SpyreX.)

Overall conclusion? Not nearly as shitty as people accused me of, but certainly not god-tiered townplay. Thoroughly mediocre: okay, even average, but nothing to write home about. And that's not at all something abnormal for a game of mine. I'll always have a firm grasp on theory, and base my plans around sound theory. The plans rarely hold up when placed towards reality.

[ironstove]

It's pretty funny that people hate rolling town on another site I play on but that seems to be opposite over here.

I personally love to roll PRs on either side. The role I hate getting assigned the most is mafia goon because they're utterly useless.

I would say -> PR -> VT -> Goon is my preference.

I think playing scum on this site is pretty easy considering that people are so hesitant to lynch someone, you are essentially granted a lot of leeway in making mistakes because you have so much time to figure out a plausible explanation, like epic mafia you will be insta lynched in under a min if you scum tell, and mafia universe people are pretty lynch happy as well. I think it's because of how long and drawn out these games are on ms that town players tend to be so hesitant and really overthink what should be simple scenarios because they feel so invested in the game and don't want to make a mistake.

Actually, it's very interesting fmpov but I have a horrible win rate on EM as scum like ~25% win rate as scum, but here on MS it is much higher (Actually haven't lost a single game yet as mafia, I believe). I think a lot of it has to do with how much time I have to interact and become town read by players, in EM which is a chat room setup, you have to basically be a very fast and very good liar and always be prepared and ready for reaction tests that people throw out, and I actually hate rolling scum in EM it's disgusting how fast people read me as scum LOL.

[JaeReed]

Welcome, Impoetic!

[Impoetic]

ego post.

sorry again. hopefully my replacement will do a better job being productive instead of detrimental

[drealmerz7]

hah

[mhsmith0]

ego post.

sorry again. hopefully my replacement will do a better job being productive instead of detrimental

Everyone has off games, don't let it get to you.

[rb]

ego post.

sorry again. hopefully my replacement will do a better job being productive instead of detrimental

Everyone has off games, don't let it get to you.

na impo u suk :~(v(:::v)v(vvv(vv(v(v(

Jks ur the best

[drealmerz7]

Jks ur the best

many would say rbs are better

(get it?)

[rb]

GOOD JUAN

[ironstove]

This game is still going on wut

[drealmerz7]

well....D1 should have been over in an instant, and took as long as it did

so I'm not surprised

[drealmerz7]

never been so glad to be dead in a game (:

[JaeReed]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p8682361

Not only has no one noticed that if you compare TTTT's last VC to the VC

right above him

that gerry did not in fact put ssbm at L1... They're wagoning the guy on V/LA with 2 hours left on deadline.

Spoiler:

when this flips their last remaining town PR then they deserve to lose.