Mini Normal 1857 (Game Over - Mafia Wins!)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

The case atm from titus is impoetic is scum because titus got no result on her and shannon started attacking titus (before titus revealed). Otherwise titus herself said she'd consider roleblock as the explanation about as likely if not more.

But it is possible titus was roleblocked and shannon took it as opportunity without the explicit target being relevant.

Consider the following:

why is titus alive?

If you leave a claimed PR alive you're intending to mislynch them or at least have it as an option. And you follow up on this either directly attacking them or otherwise casting shade.
The pool of people that makes is Shannon, TTTT, ssbm_kyouko and partially drone.

Of all of these shannon's stance on titus hasn't really made sense (d2 wagon) whereas I think I can follow the progression of kyouko and sort of TTTT. Drone did vote titus but his logic was entirely on other things; if you're going to leave someone alive to take issue with you don't attack them for entirely different reasons or even back off in under 3 hours (2168), so I don't think he really qualifies.
Shannon didn't vote titus (shannon's style in general seems to be coming in at the end with the "compromise" vote rather than leading anything though) but cast a ton of shade and focused on the theory and the places that make sense for this. Read 2309. Shannon throughout isn't having an independent drive or views but focuses on public opinion, what "everyone" thinks is a good idea and I believe trying to bring our focus to specific areas where it shouldn't be.

Titus's theory mostly hinges on shannon scum anyways but I think titus being roleblocked and having been a pre-planned target is more likely here.

if Titus is town she's alive because scum have a roleblocker and having her around causes dissension in the ranks. No need to kill her when they can kill off the townblock and roleblock her, rendering her powerless. They still have a couple nights to kill her if they want but even as a claimed pr she's not confirmed to anyone and she can't get confirmed as long as scum keep roleblocking her. They wouldn't be scared to leave her alive in 5way LyLo because nobody would consider her conftown under these circumstances.

Rask, have you looked back at the D1 Impoetic wagon or read my case on her? Have a comment on any of that, you're really tunneling shannon as it is. Not that it's not compelling I just think scum!shannon can't avoid being lynched in 5-way and Impoetic is a big fat question mark that we should get rid of sooner rather than later

[shannon]

Replying to the last paragraph of SSBM above:

The question I have now, is do you think Town Me can avoid being lynched in 5P LYLO? Because if not, you should lynch me now and give the remaining people a chance to find actual scum when LYLO happens. If you think today doesn't matter because you've 'got me in the bag' during 5P, you're wrong, I'm town and lynching me then will lose us the game. I'd rather go today when my town flip can actually be useful in terms of examining the wagons and the shitty arguments made against me. No one will realise they're shitty until I flip.

PS - It's Xmas eve here, I don't have a family thing on tomorrow (yay) but I might still not be around much. If you lynch me overnight my-time I'm OK with that, my claim is VT. I would prefer to spend more time and actually *find scum* but me going now is better than me being treated as an auto-lynch in 5P and losing us the game.

[TTTT]

UNVOTE:

@Titus
why'd you choose to use your GS rather than JK?

I'll be V/LA until Dec. 26

but I have a chance to check in now and then.

[Impoetic]

The case atm from titus is impoetic is scum because titus got no result on her and shannon started attacking titus (before titus revealed). Otherwise titus herself said she'd consider roleblock as the explanation about as likely if not more.

But it is possible titus was roleblocked and shannon took it as opportunity without the explicit target being relevant.

Consider the following:

why is titus alive?

If you leave a claimed PR alive you're intending to mislynch them or at least have it as an option. And you follow up on this either directly attacking them or otherwise casting shade.
The pool of people that makes is Shannon, TTTT, ssbm_kyouko and partially drone.

Of all of these shannon's stance on titus hasn't really made sense (d2 wagon) whereas I think I can follow the progression of kyouko and sort of TTTT. Drone did vote titus but his logic was entirely on other things; if you're going to leave someone alive to take issue with you don't attack them for entirely different reasons or even back off in under 3 hours (2168), so I don't think he really qualifies.
Shannon didn't vote titus (shannon's style in general seems to be coming in at the end with the "compromise" vote rather than leading anything though) but cast a ton of shade and focused on the theory and the places that make sense for this. Read 2309. Shannon throughout isn't having an independent drive or views but focuses on public opinion, what "everyone" thinks is a good idea and I believe trying to bring our focus to specific areas where it shouldn't be.

Titus's theory mostly hinges on shannon scum anyways but I think titus being roleblocked and having been a pre-planned target is more likely here.

if Titus is town she's alive because scum have a roleblocker and having her around causes dissension in the ranks. No need to kill her when they can kill off the townblock and roleblock her, rendering her powerless. They still have a couple nights to kill her if they want but even as a claimed pr she's not confirmed to anyone and she can't get confirmed as long as scum keep roleblocking her. They wouldn't be scared to leave her alive in 5way LyLo because nobody would consider her conftown under these circumstances.

Rask, have you looked back at the D1 Impoetic wagon or read my case on her? Have a comment on any of that, you're really tunneling shannon as it is. Not that it's not compelling I just think scum!shannon can't avoid being lynched in 5-way and Impoetic is a big fat question mark that we should get rid of sooner rather than later

WTF is this logic

[Impoetic]

I wasn't gonna vote because I really did/still might be planning to sub out and wouldn't wanna have my vote sitting somewhere with no one in the slot (nullifying the logic in "we'll never be able to get reads on her and she's antitown so time to PolicyLynchTM" completely) but holy shit I think I'll actually

VOTE: SSBM_kyouko

[Impoetic]

the first paragraph is fine, but I can't believe that was really necessary to be explicitly stated this far into the day. You're also leaving out the possibility that titus is scum.

The second paragraph is just ??????? Shannon already stated half the problem.

[Impoetic]

also rask replaced drealmerz, right? titus replaced rabbit?

[Impoetic]

oh and @Gerry

I vote more as scum too. I've said this several times, but I haven't been here, and aside from different site, being out of practice even with normal mafia (the last 2 games on my main there are me reciting bee movie and trolling in a group of friends, you'll note that I accidentally let one of them claim my role in the second). I was tempted to omgus because I thought of all people you'd be able to get what I was saying in the longpost I wrote in response to you earlier but, whatever. You did spearhead the RB wagon, which has been my main reason for ignoring you/reads on you, but I also can't read in forum mafia at all, so, again, whatever.

[Impoetic]

aside from it being a different site*

But yeah, I think it's pretty clear I'm unmotivated and if anything I'm far more likely to stay engaged as scum because I'm far better at the game as scum as it's the only thing I've historically been decent at + my role would be more important. In fact,

most

players are less likely to lose motivation as scum. Of course people intentionally do because it's such a basic/commonly-accepted towntell, but I think that's kind of shitty to do in the way that I've been doing it, and I kind of thought you'd realize that, ergo it feels like dumbtelling. I'm saying this so you can possibly dispel my suspicions if you're town and choose to engage me, though you'd probably do it as scum too. Meh.

[JaeReed]

VC 3.07

Impoetic (3)

: Titus, ssbm_Kyouko, Drone

-- L-2!

ssbm_Kyouko (1)

: Impoetic

shannon (1)

: Raskolnikov

Drone (1)

: Sesq

NOT VOTING (3)

: gerryoat, shannon, TTTT

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2017-01-03 16:47:00)

[Sesq]

I didn't ask for your thoughts on the Impoetic wagon. I asked for your thoughts on Impoetic.

Also, your read on Shannon isn't much of one either. Have you read Rask's recent posts? Why does Shannon "seem townie"?

Impoetic is really newby, and seems to just say stupid stuff and be overly skeptical. As for shannon, it's not that she seems townie, it's that she seems not scummy, and my base position on people is that they are town-leaning, by general principle. As for Rask's more recent posts, they are physically difficult to read. I have a sort of semi-dyslexic thing with long paragraphs. There have been other points in the game where this has been an issue.

[shannon]

also rask replaced drealmerz, right? titus replaced rabbit?

D7 was night killed, but Titus replaced rabbit.

[Sesq]

also rask replaced drealmerz, right? titus replaced rabbit?

D7 was night killed, but Titus replaced rabbit.

rask replaced ironstove just so ya know

[Titus]

UNVOTE:

@Titus
why'd you choose to use your GS rather than JK?

I'll be V/LA until Dec. 26

but I have a chance to check in now and then.

With 2+ scum alive, I favor GS in case I got a result and lived.

JK might tell me something, but its a long shot.

[shannon]

UNVOTE:

@Titus
why'd you choose to use your GS rather than JK?

I'll be V/LA until Dec. 26

but I have a chance to check in now and then.

With 2+ scum alive, I favor GS in case I got a result and lived.

JK might tell me something, but its a long shot.

Can I ask you to try a hypothetical with your setup spec wagon reading powers?

Let's imagine I've been lynched today and I flip VT, how does that effect your interpretation of the game? What do you see in the wagons on me, and the one around LUV? Does it tell you anything about whether we are more/less likely to have a roleblocker/jailkeeper/ascetic in the game? Does it make you suspicious of any particular player who has had a weird-looking town read on me, when everyone else thought I was scum?

[gerryoat]

Sorry I think she's maf

VOTE: Impoetic L1!

[Impoetic]

Gerry hammered

and is probably scum for it

[Impoetic]

wait never mind i'm dumb and didn't see the VC

[Impoetic]

...Meh. The vague dismissal without bothering to go into detail still makes me feel like he's stretching for the sake of finding a mislynch outside his team but he's not the only one doing that so idk.

[shannon]

I can quote dead threads for finished games, right?

Town read on Rask because he made this post giving advice to a newbie on scum hunting:

"Well, a really basic tell is, look at who is really trying to figure out the game. Original or fresh insights and deep thinking about the game; scum will often just do what they have to for appearance sake so they can look shallow or flat sometimes"

By his own standard I don't think Rask is shallow or flat, he went and looked up a game with me, Titus, and LUV in it.

(If anyone else cares, it's the dead thread from Newbie 1752 which also has Drone and SSBM in it).
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68849 > The game thread

[shannon]

I'm reading Drone's posts in the same game and seeing a lot more depth here than there. Drone is a town lean now, if I consider him independently of anything happening with Titus.

In ISOing Drone in our game, though, I want to know how this progression happened, (bold in top post for emphasis of the relevant bit). There's not even a mention of LUV from Drone in between these two posts, besides the intent to hammer.

Titus/Uzi are not lynchable today for me.

(for the clarity; Titus null/towny{ish} - Uzi null/weak scummy
Gerryoat/Rask - Strong town reads.
TTTT/Kyouko - Generally TTTTown leaning
Shannon/Impoetic - Null. I still need more content to sort
Drealm - Null
Sesq - Scummy to very scummy.

VOTE: LUV

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I'm reading Drone's posts in the same game and seeing a lot more depth here than there. Drone is a town lean now, if I consider him independently of anything happening with Titus.

In ISOing Drone in our game, though, I want to know how this progression happened, (bold in top post for emphasis of the relevant bit). There's not even a mention of LUV from Drone in between these two posts, besides the intent to hammer.

Titus/Uzi are not lynchable today for me.

(for the clarity; Titus null/towny{ish} - Uzi null/weak scummy
Gerryoat/Rask - Strong town reads.
TTTT/Kyouko - Generally TTTTown leaning
Shannon/Impoetic - Null. I still need more content to sort
Drealm - Null
Sesq - Scummy to very scummy.

VOTE: LUV

UNVOTE:

[Impoetic]

I can quote dead threads for finished games, right?

Town read on Rask because he made this post giving advice to a newbie on scum hunting:

"Well, a really basic tell is, look at who is really trying to figure out the game. Original or fresh insights and deep thinking about the game; scum will often just do what they have to for appearance sake so they can look shallow or flat sometimes"

By his own standard I don't think Rask is shallow or flat, he went and looked up a game with me, Titus, and LUV in it.

(If anyone else cares, it's the dead thread from Newbie 1752 which also has Drone and SSBM in it).
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=68849 > The game thread

What makes you think that rask as scum would not play to towntell in the ways they consider towntells? Rask actually pointed out it was a basic tell; it's something that, if you're aware of consciously enough to think of it when bringing up advice to a newbie, you'll mooost likely not fall for yourself as scum.

This isn't me saying I think rask is scum, but the tell he pointed out is actually kind of my problem with some of your posts. And one of his, too, from what I've read. This is one of those posts.

[Impoetic]

My problem here is that I don't have reads, and I really don't know how to get them. I know in my head that catching up (not even sure where I got to when I tried to so prior, so that's a problem) is an obvious first step, but I don't even feel like I'll be able to come to a decision if I do that, because I haven't been able to in the past.

I hope that clarifies why I've been so inert this game in my brief periods of activity. I understand I'm being overly cynical, but I'm not very good at changing my mindset in practice just because I know in theory I should, as a rule. I also understand how I might look scum, but I don't see people really bringing up anything except the inactivity. I still have yet to figure out why Titus is claiming no report = guilty. I think I'm clearly missing something there because even as scum I don't see an incentive to say something like that without some excuse.

In the meantime I'd like to know why Kyouko unvoted just then (I initially assumed the quote was an accident but are you unvoting because Drone's on the wagon?) and why Gerry thinks I'm scum, since you (Gerry) asked me a question as if to try to sort me and then chose not to with no explanation.

speaking of which lol why is titus on the wagon with drone

titus do you townread drone now

[Impoetic]

And the energy level in the above posts is because I took medicine today that I'm supposed to take but normally don't, which seems to cause hypomania as a side effect, at least for me. It has nothing to do with the thing I quoted from shannon. I was aware of that tell beforehand, but even if I hadn't been, Rask isn't actually scumreading me this game; aside from that, sudden and observable changes like that aren't exactly optimal for scum. Just pointing all this out ahead of time so anyone decides to use it as a reason later. I understand my constant defense of myself when under pressure is unsettling, but I'd still rather point it out than not do anything. Besides, again, I think Gerry knows it's totally normal for me even in the real-time version of mafia.

Also just want to clarify that I won't be mad or disappointed if you're town or anything, Gerry. I realize that might have been unclear with the "you know me better than this" stuff but I wasn't trying to guilt trip because I could be genuinely wrong, it's just all I have to go off of right now.