inspectorscout's Large Normal Review

[inspectorscout]

If multiball is really not favorable, I could also work with removing the white team and adding 2 vanilla townies, or working with a serial killer.

If I don't do that, would a black/white balance theme work/be appropriate?

[mastin2]

Multiball, in general, has fallen out of favor in the site meta as a whole (especially in Normals), but we as reviewers--at least in a Large--will not discourage moderators from running the game. It's just that fewer multiball games are being run than there were a few years ago. I wouldn't be able to tell you why, because that's more of a moderator thing than player thing, just less interest in running them I suppose. So, there's nothing keeping you from running a multiball game. Especially not one which is openly multiball; people going in who know what they are getting in to are far less likely to bitch and moan. (But, because balancing multiball perfectly is impossible, they'll still bitch and moan anyway. Just...they'll do so less if they knew the game was multiball.)

So basically, you're free to run a multiball game. It's just that while we as reviewers can give you a setup which is theoretically balanced, we cannot give you a setup which is low on swing because multiball has swing INHERENT in it: a faction can and probably will be fucked over purely by bad luck, and there's NOTHING we as reviewers can do to stop that because there's no multiball setup in the world which can stop that. (Not even opens. Open multiballs are fun and a blast, but they're still swingy and can have the winner determined as early as N1.)

If you're fine accepting that multiball is swingy by nature, then we're fine as reviewers in reviewing multiball. So, we won't discourage you. I just don't want you to go into the game and be blindsided by the demands of a multiball game.

[Firebringer]

2x White Mafia Goon
1x White Mafia Neapolitan

1x Black Mafia Goon
1x Black Mafia Neighborizer
1x Black Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof

3x Town Mason (1 masonry)
1x Town Doctor
1x Town 2-shot Vigilante
1x Town PT-Cop
6x Vanilla Townies

Premade neighborhood with white goon, white Neapolitan and vanilla townie

This is currently on the table.

This seems fine relatively speaking.
I would consider dropping a mason possibly as town might be too powerful here...
Actually given how you weakened PT cop, it might be fine.

[inspectorscout]

I'd love to keep the multiball, but I don't really know if it's looked down on in normals. If so, I can do without, obviously.

But if it's fine, even better

[mastin2]

It's not looked down on to my knowledge.
It's just uncommon.

[inspectorscout]

It's not looked down on to my knowledge.
It's just uncommon.

Then it's fine.
What do you think of the currently proposed setup?

[mastin2]

While the idea of two of a faction being in a neighborhood is cute and all, pragmatically, it won't work the way you expect--when players see one white mafiate flip, they'll expect a BLACK mafiate in the neighborhood ("3-man neighborhood? Easy peasy, one of each faction!"), so the white mafiate you have in there which is meant to be confirmed will instead end up being lynched for the wrong reasons.

For that reason alone, setup still favors the black.

[Firebringer]

While the idea of two of a faction being in a neighborhood is cute and all, pragmatically, it won't work the way you expect--when players see one white mafiate flip, they'll expect a BLACK mafiate in the neighborhood ("3-man neighborhood? Easy peasy, one of each faction!"), so the white mafiate you have in there which is meant to be confirmed will instead end up being lynched for the wrong reasons.

For that reason alone, setup still favors the black.

ummm no.
I extremely disagree with this.

[mastin2]

Then you haven't been in many multiball neighborhoods.

I have.

When one white scum player flips, the thought will NOT be "oh the other two must be town".
It will be "oh there must be one town and one black".

I 100%, absolutely,

guarantee

you of that fact.

[Firebringer]

Then you haven't been in many multiball neighborhoods.

I have.

When one white scum player flips, the thought will NOT be "oh the other two must be town".
It will be "oh there must be one town and one black".

I 100%, absolutely,

guarantee

you of that fact.

i have been in multi ball games with neighborhoods and what happened was 1 was scum, the other two are town.
not many people assumed 2 scum of diff factions and 1 town....

they just assumed "1 must be scum"

[Firebringer]

its honestly just mod WIFOM.
It doesn't matter how many scum or town you put in it.

[mastin2]

It shouldn't matter, but it does, especially if the mod's balanced the white team by relying on the neighborhood granting them strength when it doesn't, thus...leaving black...still stronger than white.

[inspectorscout]

Then what do you suggest doing instead?

[mastin2]

Honestly I'd drop the neighborhood entirely. White mafia being in a neighborhood, when black mafia have a neighborizer, is something that would not take long to figure out.
Instead, I'd give them a 1-shot rolestopper. It's of comparable strength to the 1x BP: maybe a bit stronger, maybe a bit weaker. (Depends on usage, honestly.) That gives each faction a role offering protection. White mafia have an investigative, and black mafia have a role which is a good general-purpose role, both serving to synchronize with the town and potentially pick up on their PRs. The town's PT cop gives them their strength as well, and yet the PT cop can only get a few useful results which diminish as the neighborizer uses their power.

The game would have each faction have approximately equal influence over the game that way.

Of course, there could be ways to keep the neighborhood if you REALLY wanted to, but the simplest and easiest setup I'd call balanced would be the above, without it.

[inspectorscout]

Then let's do that!

Why exactly rolestopper and not roleblocker?

[mastin2]

Rolestopper works more defensively in the same vein as a bulletproof would. Roleblocker works more offensively. A 1x roleblocker is also something the scumteam is more likely to waste than a 1x rolestopper, but you're correct, it's a viable alternative. The reasons I just gave are why I suggested the rolestopper though.

[inspectorscout]

Yeah...

Rolestopper is fine... but wouldn't be rolestopper - neighborizer vs bulletproof-neapolitan be more balanced, as I believe neapoltan is stronger than neighborizer, even with thr PT.

Also, wpuld balance black-white flavor work?

[inspectorscout]

Shameless (slightly shameful) bump!

I'll try writing the new role PM's tomorrow.

[Firebringer]

I have no more thoughts at the current time!
Ill read what i missed in a bit.

[inspectorscout]

These are the new role PM's.
I'll give them colours to indicate alignment later on.

Spoiler: Town PT cop

Welcome to Large Normal [number]!

You are a Town PT Cop.
Abilities:
- During the day, you may vote to lynch.
- At night, you may target a player. You will learn if that player has access to any PT's. This includes masonries, neighborhoods and mafia PT's.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this message with your alignment and role.

Spoiler: White Mafia 1-shot Rolestopper

Welcome to Large Normal [number]!

You are a White Mafia 1-shot Rolestopper.
Abilities:
- During the day, you may vote to lynch.
- You share a factional kill with [name], White Mafia Neapolitan and [name], White Mafia Goon.
- You may talk with the other white mafia members here at night.
- Once during the game, at night, you may target a player. Any and all other actions targeting that player will fail that night.

You win when your faction consists of at least half of the living players, or when nothing can prevent this from happening, AND when all members of the black mafia are eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this message with your alignment and role.

Spoiler: White Mafia Goon

Welcome to Large Normal [number]!

You are a White Mafia Goon.
Abilities:
- During the day, you may vote to lynch.
- You share a factional kill with [name], White Mafia Neapolitan and [name], White Mafia 1-shot Rolestopper.
- You may talk with the other white mafia members here at night.

You win when your faction consists of at least half of the living players, or when nothing can prevent this from happening, AND when all members of the black mafia are eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this message with your alignment and role.

Spoiler: White Mafia Neapolitan

Welcome to Large Normal [number]!

You are a White Mafia Neapolitan.
Abilities:
- During the day, you may vote to lynch.
- You share a factional kill with [name], White Mafia Goon and [name], White Mafia 1-shot Rolestopper.
- You may talk with the other white mafia members here at night.
- At night, You may investigate a player. You will learn if they are a Vanilla Townie or not.

You win when your faction consists of at least half of the living players, or when nothing can prevent this from happening, AND when all members of the black mafia are eliminated.

The game thread is here. Please confirm by replying to this message with your alignment and role.

[inspectorscout]

1x White Mafia Goon
1x White Mafia Neapolitan
1x White Mafia Rolestopper

1x Black Mafia Goon
1x Black Mafia Neighborizer
1x Black Mafia 1-shot Bulletproof

3x Town Mason (1 masonry)
1x Town Doctor
1x Town 2-shot Vigilante
1x Town PT-Cop
6x Vanilla Townies

urgh. bump.

[Firebringer]

Scum seem way too strong for White right now.
I would limit shots on both neapolitan and rolestopper.
Maybe 2 shot Neapolitan and 1 shot Rolestopper

Even that might be too strong for scum.

[inspectorscout]

Rolestopper should've been 1-shot, my bad.

What about changing combinations and having white with neapolitan and 1shot Bp, black with neighb and 1shot rolestopper?

[Firebringer]

What about changing combinations and having white with neapolitan and 1shot Bp, black with neighb and 1shot rolestopper?

I think I like that more.

[Firebringer]

I think with that change the game is more balanced.
It has my approval on that I think.

Ill let other reviewers chime in but I think thats good for a multiball.

Approved[/v]