Newbie 1756: Balloon (Game Over)

[mhsmith0]

Which perspective slip post in partuclar did were you referencing? IIRC I'd had a couple touching on the subject.

[borkjerfkin]

many of my players (nalsco, zaragui) continually picked up prods but never posted or responded to my PMs. I've never seen anything like it.

[borkjerfkin]

Well, either I screwed up and scum will quick hammer soon enough or I actually got it right. Guess we'll see.

If you actually are town(which I very much doubt, since that would have to involve either Loopdan!scum or a Manuel-Tweet team), we are going to have Words after this game.

Fwiw this reads like at least a mild perspective slip

1) smith and accountant don't make sense as both town
2) smith made a horrible mistake

Accountant, what am I missing? You say you agree that we're probably not both town, so what exactly did I do that was some kind of big mistake? Or are you just trying to have your cake and eat it too?

[ThinkBig]

@Accountant you're not unable to self vote as scum!IC btw. It was the right move not to do so here, obviously, but I believe self hammering as scum!IC is fine as per http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _a_good_IC

There have been times when I self hammered as scum when I knew there was no way out of it. I think accountant did the right thing by not self hammering. He further pulled wool over our eyes and portrayed himself as town.

[mhsmith0]

pstttt mhsmith0 you should change your quote from me to the one i put about you in the spoilers pt

I want to, but I have a policy of only having quotes from wins
That's why my one from before was so embarrassing - in general, my best town games have consistently resulted in losses. This one being no exception.

[borkjerfkin]

basically "i'm giving very little credence to this being a TvT between us, but admonishing you for doing the same"

[ThinkBig]

@Bork: Even though I was able to get very few posts in, how do you think I played? I was surprised that my accountant read was correct.

[borkjerfkin]

I think you replaced into about the worst spot you could have and had really little time to do anything, but I don't think you played badly even though you got lynched. I would have probably just efforted a bit more as a last resort, that's usually what you have to do as a town replacement under the gun at the last minute, otherwise inertia takes its course.

[mhsmith0]

I should put a new section in my wiki
Games Smith played really well in as town but still lost
I have like 30 long games total, and like 6-8 of them probably qualify. Meanwhile I can think of just ONE game where I did nothing to deserve the win (lock win on sub in ) and none really where I played especially badly but still won (tho I've had a few meh games that I won fwiw)

[borkjerfkin]

I don't think I've ever played well as town as you did here

I either wave my dick around and get killed early because I'm unlynchable or get taken to lylo and lose. I can't scumhunt for fuck

[borkjerfkin]

see my wiki for reference

[mhsmith0]

Probably my best town game was FA's large theme where panzer outed his scum team d2. God tier reads in that one, but ate a game cancel (also had everyone ignore me because "I wasn't doing enough" lolololol. I've had a few solid town games, though I've also had a few stinkers here and there.

[borkjerfkin]

oh yeah that game

panzer, what a guy.

[mhsmith0]

What I want to know is, how come none of the games where I play like crap get suddenly cancelled like that

[mhsmith0]

pstttt mhsmith0 you should change your quote from me to the one i put about you in the spoilers pt

Adding that one to my quotes wall in my wiki tho

[borkjerfkin]

@Accountant you're not unable to self vote as scum!IC btw. It was the right move not to do so here, obviously, but I believe self hammering as scum!IC is fine as per http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _a_good_IC

There have been times when I self hammered as scum when I knew there was no way out of it. I think accountant did the right thing by not self hammering. He further pulled wool over our eyes and portrayed himself as town.

people generally overuse self-hammer as scum. I've seen players on like D1 just self hammer if they hit L1 at all, whereas what they needed was a ballsy fakeclaim

[JaeReed]

I don't think I've ever played well as town as you did here

I either wave my dick around and get killed early because I'm unlynchable or get taken to lylo and lose. I can't scumhunt for fuck

LOL THIS IS SO ME. I relate to this.

[ThinkBig]

@Accountant you're not unable to self vote as scum!IC btw. It was the right move not to do so here, obviously, but I believe self hammering as scum!IC is fine as per http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... _a_good_IC

There have been times when I self hammered as scum when I knew there was no way out of it. I think accountant did the right thing by not self hammering. He further pulled wool over our eyes and portrayed himself as town.

people generally overuse self-hammer as scum. I've seen players on like D1 just self hammer if they hit L1 at all, whereas what they needed was a ballsy fakeclaim

Lol. I once fake claimed cop in order to get the real cop to CC me and have them NK'd.

[Accountant]

More detailed analysis to come later.

Huge props to Manuel, Tweet, Jae and mhsmith for various reasons. I'll talk more about that next time. This was an excellent game for various reasons and I didn't feel I deserved the win here.

I think that I should have been caught way earlier for basically doing nothing but shade throwing in three quarters of my posts! I am amazed nobody picked up on that.

[Accountant]

@JaeReed: I know I can self hammer as scum IC. I wanted to fake town IC that couldn't self hammer and try to win the LyLo.

[Accountant]

A few general points I've been noting down throughout the game:

1) This was by far the weakest scum game (in terms of my own playing skill) I've played so far, even worse than my first game on site. The main reason I won was because the two PRs outed themselves D1, and Manuel was an incredible scum buddy. I think he had a decent chance of winning even if I got lynched, to boot.

Here are my mistakes:

- too much time throwing shade on people and disrupting town blocs, not enough time pushing the game forward and trying to push my own scum reads. I NEVER do this as town(I've been lazy town who doesn't push before, but I've never thrown shade so much as town)

- that post immediately after D3 started was terrible and a big scum slip. It was clearly a rehearsed post crafted during the night, and which aggressively pushes for a single player's lynch during LyLo.

- way too much defensiveness on my part, especially in LyLo. mhsmith0 was absolutely correct in saying that town Accountant would have been more focused on catching scum than sitting around and defending themselves in LyLo. Props to him for noticing that. This focus on defense over offense is especially noticeable if you compare how the scum team literally gets confirmed before my eyes(at least from town accountant's PoV) and I do not increase my aggression levels at all. That makes no sense!

- I had very little relative control over the lynch. Ideally as scum you want to be directing every lynch or nearly every lynch with precision accuracy onto the people you want to be lynched.

I am very surprised that I wasn't lynched even after repeatedly scumslipping!

2) My strategy in LyLo was focused entirely on Loopdan. I needed to make him as paranoid and kind of dazed about the whole thing as possible, because if he took the time to sit down and read my interactions with mhsmith or even Tweet to a certain extent that would definitely have been a lost game. This is why I repeatedly hammered in the narrative about mhsmith's posts being scum theater(the irony of course is that this is itself scum theater). In general, watch out for people sowing paranoia in LyLo - they are definitely scum.

3) I think the LyLo in this game is an important example of how scum can pull a win out of thin air by simply being more convincing or looking better than town, even if town has good reads. This is why training persuasion skills and understanding how to control game dynamics are important! I am kind of infamous for having terrible reads as town(frequently I will hard defend scum or tunnel town to death), but I have a decent winrate regardless because I'm able to work together with other townies, do PoE, form blocs, be unlynchable and so on and so forth.

[Accountant]

I'd like to praise a few people in this game.

Morning Tweet: You had excellent reads and a good ability to seem town! Your play was very impressive for a relatively new player. I'm also impressed at your ability to see through scum theater so easily.
mhsmith0: You did really good replacing into a bad slot. While you've already received praise for your astutely catching my scumslips, what I thought was most impressive was the way in which you pressured and pushed me in LyLo in an attempt to force a lynch on me. The ability to attack a slot, clearly explain why they are scum, and get them lynched is very important.
JaeReed: Your analysis was spot on. The reason I killed you was because I was pretty sure you'd solve the game if I allowed you to live.
Manuel: Your distancing was very good, and you played an important role in the scum victory. I really loved how you set up you v Tweet as town v town!

[Stormcloud]

Hard game
mhsmith replacing in almost turned it around^^
@ThinkBig: yeah you replaced into a slot that was most likely going to be lynched no matter what you did on top of that with almost no time left.
@mhsmith: I thought pushing tweet over bussing was the only move to turn this game into our favor after you pretty much sloved it.

Yeah it was a solid move. I still thought accountant was increasingly obvious to any outside observer with every post he or I made but thems the breaks.

As an outside observer who was watching this game from the beginning and enjoyed every second of it (definitely favorite newbie game so far!), Accountant had me fooled until the last day, but I agree it was increasingly obvious. The "mhsmith if you're town we're having words" post was what gave it away - Accountant is far too good to not realize you'd have to be scum if he was town at that point, and everyone else in the game was far too competent to not just hammer Accountant. I was reading Accountant town the whole game until the last day, but I still had no clue who his partner was - I would have bet Morning Tweet if I was in the game just due to Morning Tweet's previous excellent scum game.

[Accountant]

LyLo's have always been a weakness of mine. I think I have about a 10% winrate in games where I am still alive by LyLo and a town member.

[Morning Tweet]

Morning Tweet,

Vanilla Townie,

was lynched Day 3.
Loopdan,

Vanilla Townie,

was endgamed Day 3.
mhsmith0,

Vanilla Townie,

was endgamed Day 3.

Accountant,

Mafia Goon,

survives.
Manuel87,

Mafia Roleblocker,

survives.

Game over.

Mafia Wins!

This makes me smile

I think my worst mistake was not pushing Accountant harder the first day. I didn't really beat myself up on the thatsit lynch like I did that one.

I'd love to see just how much of this day was planned! In my prior scumgame, setting up a plan that requires you to create reads on people from others is pretty difficult, I even pointed out reasons for my scumbuddy's.

mhsmith gave us a chance at winning Lylo, before Norska replaced out there was no way I'd convince him to vote Accountant, maybe even Manuel. Very impressive.

JaeReed had nice reads and made Charloux town without a shadow of a doubt. He made me consider Accountant!town at the beginning of Lylo, but I threw that possibility away not long after.

I don't have anything in particular to thank Manuel for, I just had a lot of fun playing with you

Thanks for being our IC, Accountant! Thanks to borkjerfkin for modding as well, I'll take your advice!