New Year's Eve Masquerade Ball - [Game Over]

[mhsmith0]

Sorry pie, I played terribly.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p8688304
Did you forget you were voting them or something? Such a weird contrast there.

Not sure what post you mean, but it looks like my phone butchered one. I meant that lynching sad was impossible without mds.

It seemed like you wanted to lynch sad/scout but were voting jester/mds.

[Kagami]

I did want to lynch sad scout, but that was impossible. I wanted to just suicide, but I couldn't bear the thought of scum-jester-mds winning like that.

[Kagami]

It was terrible on my part,and I feel bad more for breaking the promise to pie than about losing.

[Ser Arthur Dayne]

Pair PTs posted.

Scum Team, if you want Scum PT released, please let me know.

Sure, I don't mind.

[Gamma Emerald]

Can anyone help my play plz

[Andrius]

Game needs more crab cakes.
Good read though idk why anyone would walk on MARIA.
Parama scum still super strong haven't seen it lose ever. Didn't expect it here. <3

[Parama]

andy i suck at scum lol
you just happened to be scum with me in my best scumgame ever so you think my scum play is pro but it's not

[Andrius]

andy i suck at scum lol
you just happened to be scum with me in my best scumgame ever so you think my scum play is pro but it's not

Lies I refuse to believe.
Panama best scum powerfulest wizard kills SpyreX busses buddies what is defeat he doesn't even know

[Parama]

don't read me and HS's PT but do read this http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8621806

[mhsmith0]

andy i suck at scum lol
you just happened to be scum with me in my best scumgame ever so you think my scum play is pro but it's not

Lies I refuse to believe.
Panama best scum powerfulest wizard kills SpyreX busses buddies what is defeat he doesn't even know

Parama played quite well as scum here. I was impressed.

I want to rand town against newbscum more often

[Kagami]

Why? I got the impression you consider yourself a strong player.

[Andrius]

don't read me and HS's PT but do read this http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p8621806

10/10 g8 meme br0

[Parama]

i regret not just posting it in-thread tbh anyways

i'm off to the micro queue again forever because large games suck

[Dunnstral]

mhsmith-pie

needs to be closely scrutinized but it definitely doesn't need to be today when we have

shadowmariar

,

jestermds

and

vedithgamma

all very helpful and informative lynch targets which are all likely to hit scum and every single pair can't be classified as t-t by a longshot.
Dunn's incredible lust to point the wagon literally anywhere else is concerning.

I really think (and parma agrees) that this DP is dragging on without flips. Namely shadow.

Favorite post

[Kagami]

The only votes by town on scum were the two on parama and the two lylo votes.

[mhsmith0]

Why? I got the impression you consider yourself a strong player.

Because while I enjoy the challenge of playing against good scum players (and this game had three of them), losing is frustrating and it would be nice to have easy games more than rarely. I'm also (again) in the middle of a losing streak and it's really annoying. This game I didn't particularly deserve to win, but some of the others were pretty annoying. I tend to get saltier and saltier as losing streaks get longer. Not fun times...

[mhsmith0]

Why? I got the impression you consider yourself a strong player.

FWIW I consider myself decently above average but well below elite.

[Parama]

i'd love to play with most of you again though, playerlist was pretty great on the whole

[mhsmith0]

sure. wouldn't even mind doing this setup again tbh, though i generally prefer smaller games than this. of course, I say this having recently played a 80+ player game (and kicked ass too )

[pieguyn]

I'm disappointed in myself.

literally all I wanted to do this game was to get redemption from the last game. to that end, I tried really hard not to get caught up in stupid shit like I do in a lot of my games, including the last game, but I overcompensated. I thought I could more reliably identify a pair that looked really town and play around that instead. but then, not only was I wrong about the town pair that I based most of what I did around, none of my other reads counted for anything because I had adopted the strategy of playing around the one town pair and making everyone else dead indiscriminately. which is even more painful because apart from SAD/scout, I think for once I actually succeeded in remaining objective about the rest of my reads, which were actually *good*.

I knew Parama and Dunn were scum, I knew mhsmith was town, I knew mariar was town and I didn't have a scum read on S_S. and even with the strategy I played, I came so close to flipping Dunn first and clearing mhsmith as town for good. but, none of it mattered.

and no one else seems to understand how I feel and why I'm so deeply upset over this game and how this would have been so easy to win if I had just played it differently, which makes it all even worse.

/sighs

[Parama]

yeah it's because you're being too hard on yourself

[Regfan]

Congrats on the win scum team, think you guys had the game under control for the most part.

Posted this in the dead thread but thought I'd move it to here too; I was casually following along (Mostly tuned in after pieguyn left the game) and wanted to get a few thoughts down here in the dead thread/postgame in hope that people improve if a future iteration occurs or just in general.

1) The IC in the game needed to try and take control from the get go. Optimal IC strategy would be to "create" all the pairings themselves, this means there's a) A reasonable chance that mafia will be leaving the dance pregame (3/16; 18.75%) which is rather high and b) Increases the chances of a Scum-Scum pairing being forced upon the scum team which is a great boon for town.

2) The setup shouldn't be instantly started with a "Look for T-T" pairings strategy, doing such is very sub-optimal play. It has multiple downsides to it such as A) Mafia can fake "town-hunting" significantly easier than the can fake "scum-hunting" so enacting this reduces the amount of alignment indicative posts inside the thread while also increasing the total posts; both of which are bad and B) Mafia win the game by getting T-T pairs lynched or them leaving the game, this means that T-T pairs that exist in the game will likely be questioned/wanted to be removed from the T-T pool by mafia. Similarly T-T pairings are typically more suspicious or paranoid of their own partner than a S-T one would be as scum has less incentive to want to remove their pairing from the universal T-T pairing situation. This all up means that "Trying to agree on T-T pairings" is actually more likely to lead towards a S-T pairing being in a stronger position than T-T.

This game should have just been played out like a normal mafia game at least in the early days of "Look for scum reads, vote scum reads, try to get scum reads lynched and base reads upon peoples reactions to wagons pre and post flip". The way it was played out instead leads to an unhealthy game state and a scum favoured one where scum can feed off town paranoia to a win.

3) People leaving the game / having suicide pacts is very nonsensical play and something that should have never been brought up or suggested at all. I've spoken with Piegun about this but in the day phase where she left the game she was aware that there was a 71.4% chance that her pairing was a town pairing; if you're in a T-T pairing you're significantly better of being lynched than having left the game, you want to see who's pushing that slot that hardest and assess them better after the flip, similarly if you're a T-S pairing the information via lynch is enormous. People needed to be playing this in a "I can try to read my pairing but I should never ever contemplate aiding their lynch/death until there's only 1 scum remaining".

[Dunnstral]

Sorry pie, I played terribly.

You really didn't, I pretty much went all out to try and trick you
I considered suiciding right after pie/mhsmith just for wifom and mainly so you couldn't figure out the game (you had a really good theory where If I was scum it wouldn't be with jester pair)

I read the dead thread, Pie don't hate me Also you didn't play bad

scum pt wasn't that interesting; nobody shared info from their own pts which was the correct thing to do I think as there's no way for an accidental slip up to occur

Also, I'm fine with releasing the scum pt

[Dunnstral]

I feel bad for sickofit who got absolutely brushed aside as people rushed to get pairings

[mhsmith0]

on MU we often say lolwillage after town losses. it's not quite lol village, it actually means "lol Want It Less village"

Town as a whole earned that moniker, myself included.

@Pie: i will say that if you knew I was town, beyond just not suiciding (duh), you should have worked to engage me with the points that I actually was making, and do the work needed to convince me you were right on dunn.

I was actually pretty upset when you made the "I demand you do more" point in PT not all that long after you blew up over my having made a similar demand of you back when I was pushing you on day 1. It made it very difficult for me to engage with you, and made me suspect that the whole thing was fake. Like, if you were town doing it, you were gonna follow through anyway and anything I did to try and convince you otherwise would probably look like survivalism, and if you were scum, then it was just posturing and I really couldn't work around it effectively either.

I was also upset on day 1 when you decided I was sorting you in an extremely half-assed way. I think if you go through the PT's and the game thread you'll find few examples of anyone working as hard as I did to try and sort you, not just on day one but as the game went along. I may not have been effective this game, and I may not have put in the kind of work on all of my reads as I needed to, but I was actually trying pretty hard to sort you, and it seemed like no one gave a damn at all about that (and that wasn't just you, it was also the collectve in thread). Honestly, there were multiple occasions where it seemed pretty clear no one much cared at all about what I had to say, or was interested in engaging me substantively on the points that I did bring up. I made a list in dead thread, but I don't think that was even exhaustive.

I freely admit I didn't have a good game here... but I actually did try. Not hard enough but the effort was there. I dunno, I probably ought to have something better to say but I really don't.

well played scum, not well played town.