Open 669 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[havingfitz]

Catching up continued from page 4.

Not sure I like lucca's analysis of MOI's first post. Also....less experienced players can be scum too.

Like Hawk's post 103. His observation on Doom.

WRT Doom's 107...I do not see mozamis post 100 as being LAMIST or town indicative. How do you?

Lucca....is your Revan vote just to pressure for more content or do you also have reasons to suspect? Seems like I recall you questioning a few things on Revan earlier in my catchup.

Don't care for Sesq's post 132. A lot of differing opinions from mine.

@FC...why would you consider FOSing someone whose scum hunting seems town to you? (post 133)

@Doom...how does the FC line above cause you to unvote him?

@ Sesq wrt post 161. Are you saying I am misrepping you?

Near end of page seven. Feeling town vibe from Doom. Not so from Sesq.

...and Hawk is dead. WTF? smh

Doom giving me 2nd thoughts on the town read. Trying to find scum outside of gameplay but rather via some perceived out of game (i.e. were people online when kill was announced) is a bad idea. And bad = bad.

I like UD's post 243. Town reading the hydra.

@Revan wrt post 284....almost. Holiday = weekend = RL>Mafia.

I've read up through post 299. I want to look a few more things over before I give my reads and put down my vote. I should be able to get to that early tomorrow. Apologies for the stream of consciousness catch up...the game starting right at the start of a busy 4 day weekend for me did not help. I'll engage more after today.

[Sesq]

Yes, I was saying I was misrepping you, but after looking back it looked like I had misspoke. My intent was to vote doom for his LAMIST shit but it didn't come across as that.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Having

- if you are going to do that sort of catchup with post numbers please use [ post ] Number you want to link here [/ post] (without the spaces) to make it easy to read along and judge your analysis.

[Superhans]

Readlist:

Weak Town Reading Doomfeathers.
I think the wagon on Doom was very surprising, people mistook playstyle with scum play. I don't think that his game mechanic question was scumplay, if anything it is a promotion of clarity. I agree with Wguerts point that his voting is kinda jumpy, but I play like that myself, so I don't think it is necessarily to over-read. His vote on me was unreasonable (not biased at all :p) but I liked that he unvoted once he had reevaluated the situation rather than pushed on unreasonable logic.

NOTE TO SELF: later in game when i get paranoid and suspect evryone else, REFER TO POST 98.

This is either town-indicative or LAMIST, and I'm not sure which.

And I learnt a new technique!
H O W E V E R

Here are other player's interactions with Hawk, in approximately chronological order. Lucca has been excluded because he couldn't have made the kill.

Wgeurts: A few disagreements, a vote, a null-scum read, and then a townread.
Mozamis: Three townreads.
Sesq: Scumreads, associations with mozamis, null-scum read.
Ultimate Despair: Townread.
Friend Computer: Townlean read.
Havingfitz: Townread.
Superhans: Criticism of Sesq's scumread of Hawk.

Which of these is most likely to have been affected by the scum who later killed him?

I really really don't like this post as you're excluding most of Hawks interactions. Have you considered that
1) Your 'who was online' is a sketchy af way of figuring out who made the kill as there is an unknowable amount of delay between the making the NK and the time it takes mod to make it.
2) Scum work as a team and have daytalk so I don't understand why the kill wasn't made on behalf of another player.

[Superhans]

Although it isn't surpring, you ignore yourself from the recent interactions with Hawk.

[Superhans]

I'm townreading wguerts because he is driving the game, and I can hardly find any slipups in his play. This would be very hard to accomplish as scum.

Lucca seems like a nice fellow, and his game-solving looks genuine. So I am townreading him too!

I will try and find scum now!

Can you also expand upon your scum read on Doom?

[Superhans]

Catching up continued from page 4.

Not sure I like lucca's analysis of MOI's first post. Also....less experienced players can be scum too.

Like Hawk's post 103. His observation on Doom.

WRT Doom's 107...I do not see mozamis post 100 as being LAMIST or town indicative. How do you?

Lucca....is your Revan vote just to pressure for more content or do you also have reasons to suspect? Seems like I recall you questioning a few things on Revan earlier in my catchup.

Don't care for Sesq's post 132. A lot of differing opinions from mine.

@FC...why would you consider FOSing someone whose scum hunting seems town to you? (post 133)

@Doom...how does the FC line above cause you to unvote him?

@ Sesq wrt post 161. Are you saying I am misrepping you?

Near end of page seven. Feeling town vibe from Doom. Not so from Sesq.

...and Hawk is dead. WTF? smh

Doom giving me 2nd thoughts on the town read. Trying to find scum outside of gameplay but rather via some perceived out of game (i.e. were people online when kill was announced) is a bad idea. And bad = bad.

I like UD's post 243. Town reading the hydra.

@Revan wrt post 284....almost. Holiday = weekend = RL>Mafia.

I've read up through post 299. I want to look a few more things over before I give my reads and put down my vote. I should be able to get to that early tomorrow. Apologies for the stream of consciousness catch up...the game starting right at the start of a busy 4 day weekend for me did not help. I'll engage more after today.

You're making lots of points, but they're not easy at all to actually understand.

Your reaction to Hawks death is also particularily obnoxious, "...and Hawk is dead. WTF? smh" Really? I would rather you not make this comment at all, rather than make it, as it is just making your work more verbose and annoying to read. Someon already mentioned this, but you need to put links in your posts.

[Superhans]

The contradiction was Revan saying "We should look for DK stuff, but I'm not doing it." Mozamis backing Revan up looks like scum play now I think about it. 241 did look town, or at least unplanned.

Pretty sure this is bollocks. Revan was pretty clear that he didnt think any OF US should analyze the day kill. And he defintely wasn't going to partake.
I think you are panicing scum.

VOTE SESQ

p.s would rather a sesq lycnh as i actually think he is scum. As opposed to FC who i have no clear read on, but people who i think are town seem convinced of his scumminess.
Ideal from my point of view would be for everyone to transfer from FC wagon to sesq wagon.

Or another way you could look at this, Sesq is town who is scum reading him because hes trying to divert the scum from anaysising the DK. I do however, agree with your principal that focussing too heavily on the DK could be unfruitful, depending on whether the DK was deliberate WIFOM brainfuckeroo or an attempt to further inciminate those on the wagon or an attempt to throw the wagon off of Sesq and onto FC (I don't think this is alikely explanation btw, because it seems like quite a big gambit to take so early in the day).

Personally, I think that "we were on the right track so scum kinda panicked" makes more sense than "this was a well-thought out plan to magically get town distracted"

completely agree, lets press on!

I do agree with this:

why did you think that 39 was in particular town? Do you think Magna's points are illegitimate or incorrect?

god, dont get so pedantic. wgerts is so, so town. if you have ANY experience of this game at all, you know he is.

If Wgert is scum, his playstyle would appear to be play as hard town as possible, make incredibly high effort posts and try and promote the discussion of town conversations. It seems like a veyr labour intensive playstyle that would be infeasible in protecting his scum team. The posts Wguert are producing would be much harder to produce if he was playing as scum.

[Superhans]

Actually I'll go even further. Generically, I would consider it fairly likely that one of the following is true

1) FC or Sesq was the scum dayvig and panicked
2) FC and Sesq were both scum and they both (or perhaps their whole team) collectively panicked

I think that Hawk was a pretty bizarre shot if this was some kind of well thought out, intentional scum strategy. I think that it's exceptionally strange to waste one of two valuable kill shots on a relative newbie who has made only 15 posts, at a time when day 1 was nowhere close to being over (scum get only two free kills, and it is highly likely that at some point during the game, at least one townie will emerge as someone that the scum REALLY want dead but can't easily get mislynched, and there is a pretty decent list of people here who could plausibly slip into that role eventually). The most logical explanation is, rather than this being a wise move, that this was a panicked and ill-thought out reaction to the game state.

Not sure whether that makes me want to wagon Sesq or FC, but I'm somewhat skeptical that I'd want to wagon elsewhere.

-M

I don't agree with this theory that the DK was a reaction to panic. I agree that there was definite intent behind the Hawk kill as the shots were valuable, but it is early D1, and it seems like an unbelievably audacious gambit that the death of Hawk would somehow throw the kill off of the FC wagon. Why would FC or Sesq try and kill Hawk so early in the day when they still have plenty of time to shift the pressure off of themselves without wasting a DK?

[Superhans]

Hawk can you explain your vote on Sesq more in-depth? Thanks.

Scum technique to justify lack of intelligble reads by pretending to be a complete moron.

[Superhans]

(that was supposed to be a rhetorical question, I'm not actually using that as serious basis for a scum case)

[Superhans]

I'm townreading wguerts because he is driving the game, and I can hardly find any slipups in his play. This would be very hard to accomplish as scum.

Lucca seems like a nice fellow, and his game-solving looks genuine. So I am townreading him too!

I will try and find scum now!

What makes Lucca a 'nice fellow'?
Does Wguert and UD's game-solving also appear genuine to you?

[Superhans]

What makes them garbage?

Okay i know my last post was a bit pedantic, but please please please stop being so bait.

[Superhans]

Friend 153

So this reads are pretty bad. Funny that you mention null-scum reading lurkers, as you are kinda lurking.

But I don't actually think Friend is scum, and I'm kinda concerned that scum is trying to wagon him, trying to exploit him for his playstyle. Don't like this.

Superhans 152

Waiting on that readslist.

Revan 156

Why are you town reading me? I feel like I know what are you doing, but I kinda feel like you are going to get lynched for it.

UD 154

I feel like, because of the hydra you might don't want to answer this, but is your read on Revan meta-based? I don't know how you get to this conclusion without meta.

Superhans 172

Do you scumread me? I don't like how all your posts are about me, and you are not voting or openly scumreading me. This is scummy.

Superhans 173[/b]

The Magna post you are referring to was on the start of page 2. My post was on page 4. There is definitely more things to deeply analyse on page 4 than page 2. This is scummy as well. Taking things out of context to try to put pressure me without even voting.

2 posts. NOt all of my posts, also bear in mind i had only made like 4 posts at the time that you'd written this so saying 'all your posts are about me' is a way to distort my content.

I'm asking questions about your playstyle because I don't like how you've been playing and I admit that reading back my questions were slightly lame (I struggled to know where to start as there was an intimidatingly large amount of content to work through) I thought that your interactions had appeared a little strange and was asking you to elaborat.

This is going to be a hard time for lurkers, all you pro-activity guys and all.

I've almost established a framework for this game. These interactions are really, really SOUR.

I was definitely sour. Reading, analysing and making those walls was taking a toll on my will to live.

@Lucca how much do you value transparency in town on a scale from 1-10?

I personally rank it at a solid 7.

Depends on the setup and the situation. I would say a 5. Why do you ask?

What the fuck. Why kill Hawk?

Reading right now.

These posts are LAMIST af.

You reach a weird conclusion on Hawk and don't explain

why

you think it is random. Almost like you are dismissing any town attempt to genuinely read deeper into it.

Honestly, too tired to post and analyse right now.

Will post by the morning.

By now, the Hawk kill seems random. There was not anything about his kill that would make anyone townier or scummier. I think that maybe we were going on the right track, and so, they killed Hawk to reset the lynches and try to put paranoia on us.

[Superhans]

unsure about the Sesq wagon, I liked her response to my question, seems genuine. I think her indignation is a flavour rather than a defense mechanism. really don't have a clue about FC. Why would you vote the moderator if you know you're a major scum read?

@FamilyComputer, how much experience have you had playing as a town and how much experience have you had playing as scum?

[Superhans]

Yes, I was saying I was misrepping you, but after looking back it looked like I had misspoke. My intent was to vote doom for his LAMIST shit but it didn't come across as that.

Are you refering to his questioning of the mechanics of the game before D1 had started?

[doomfeathers]

Okay, catching up. I'm on page 10 at the moment.

Doom 136

The content presented by Friend was very, well, non-content. It was almost two random phrases with no explanation behind them. Do you feel like it was enough to make you unvote him?

Friend's post was rather unsatisfactory, but I had said that I was voting him until he posted more content. He did, so I felt I had to uphold my word by unvoting him. Afterward, I thought about it for a while, then put my vote back where it was.

[doomfeathers]

Anyway, I'm totally aware I did stupid shit and I'm expecting to be lynched now.

This is scum.

Town does not give up the fight like this. This is a gambit to try to keep from being lynched.

VOTE: Sesq

[MagnaofIllusion]

After reflection of having read Superhans posts on this page and a quick re-ISO I'm moving him up to the second tier scum read I have (currently shared by Moz).

At first this page looks to be a good amount of content but at a deeper look there is little actual reads coming from his slot. The only thing close to an actual read is his sortaNullTown on Doomfeathers. Plenty of suggestions of scumminess (Revan for example) but no vote. Fence-sitting on both Friend and Sesq wagons. Looks to be similar play to my analysis of Revan's "FOS player, empty Mod Vote".

But there are some pretty strong relational Sesq ties there. If Superhans were scum and scum with Friend I'd expect he'd have jumped on the bus as he's very late to the pickup site. The way he is playing it he would get dinged pretty hard with a FC scum flip. Especially a Dayvig Friend flip. But he didn't do that. Instead he's leaving himself room to move there while fence-sitting on Sesq. And while doing that fence-sitting his narratives all tend to be "But Sesq could be Town who is ...."

VOTE: Sesq

I'm not Town reading FC but after seeing this and how Super is handling the game-state I'm happy to increase pressure on Sesq.

[Revan]

I do think wheurts and UD are genuinely game solving.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I do think wheurts and UD are genuinely game solving.

Who doesn't seem to be "genuinely game solving" then?

[doomfeathers]

You do know it is general site procedure for Mods with hidden daykills to allow scum to “queue up” the kill to a later time based on any number of criteria, correct?

I did not; this is my first game involving daykills. Thanks much for informing me!

NOTE TO SELF: later in game when i get paranoid and suspect evryone else, REFER TO POST 98.

This is either town-indicative or LAMIST, and I'm not sure which.

WRT Doom's 107...I do not see mozamis post 100 as being LAMIST or town indicative. How do you?

Scum don't need to suspect others. Mozamis is claiming quite openly that she might, in fact, start suspecting everyone, thus implying she is townie. If this is on purpose, it's LAMIST; otherwise, it's a towntell.

@Doom...how does the FC line above cause you to unvote him?

Already answered.

Doom giving me 2nd thoughts on the town read. Trying to find scum outside of gameplay but rather via some perceived out of game (i.e. were people online when kill was announced) is a bad idea. And bad = bad.

This is faulty reasoning. First, you need to prove that my methods were faulty. (Others already have, but you didn't even try.) Second, poor reasoning is not the same as scummy play. Since you claim it is, I should, using your logic, vote you for this post.

I really really don't like this post as you're excluding most of Hawks interactions. Have you considered that
1) Your 'who was online' is a sketchy af way of figuring out who made the kill as there is an unknowable amount of delay between the making the NK and the time it takes mod to make it.
2) Scum work as a team and have daytalk so I don't understand why the kill wasn't made on behalf of another player.

1. I didn't at the time. I have since been informed of this.
2. I honestly did not think of this.

Although it isn't surpring, you ignore yourself from the recent interactions with Hawk.

True. I may be somewhat biased, but I tend to townread myself.

[Revan]

Be patient, we have time.

I'm working on it.

[doomfeathers]

Come to think of it, we may want to try to lynch the day goon today so he can't use his second kill. Do we have any indicators of who might be not only scum but also the killer?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Be patient, we have time.

I'm working on it.

Nah, we are 13 pages plus a Mafia daykill into the game. The time-frame for you to slide by giving minimal content as to who is scum is well past. This no longer cuts the mustard and is not acceptable.