Micro 675: Heroes of the Storm uPick - Game Over!

[Syryana]

What scenarios are you theorizing here

There's a lot going on in my head right now. I'm going to try to put some order to it by putting out some facts before I posit theories.

Fact: AJ is at L-1.
Fact: You believe AJ is town (for undisclosed reasons) and that S_S is scum (also for undisclosed reasons).
Fact: OA immediately jumps on.

This is where we enter the thorny thickets of guesswork, paranoia and insanity. Given the above three facts I thought something along the lines of the following:

"Is this a scum-driven counterwagon to AJ? If so, which is the partner? Is Dunn the ballsiest partner ever? Is OA the laziest partner ever?"
"Am I wrong about Aj? Do we have two wagons on scum? *insert various other thoughts about AJ/Dunn/OA alignment and the connotations thereof*

So the takeaway from this is I'm really interested to hear what Dunn has to say on S_S and AJ. I also think this wagon is town driven/motivated. This basically leaves me entertaining the idea that AJ may be town. Jury's still out on OA; I think that jump reasoning is shitawful.

If there was going to be a scum counterpush to me here, wouldn't that happen BEFORE bork votes, not after?

This is one of the reasons why I said the timing was weird.

PEDIT X INFINITY GODDAMNIT

[Seiko x Naomi]

PEDIT X INFINITY GODDAMNIT

You missed me, didn't you.

[Syryana]

Yes. Now I won't be posting thoughts for a bit because I'm at work and can't concentrate on two things at once bai2u

[Foxbird]

Votecount 1.12

Aj The Epic

(3) - Seiko x Naomi, The Oxford Bubbles, Syryana

(L-2!)

Syryana

(1) - Shadow_step

Obvious Alt

(1) - Aj The Epic

Shadow_step

(2) - Dunnstral, Obvious Alt

Not Voting

(2) - Charloux, borkjerfkin

With

9

players eligible to vote, it’s

5

to lynch!

Day 1 will end in

(expired on 2017-01-26 06:01:00).

Mod Notes:

None!

[borkjerfkin]

Is this a scum-driven counterwagon to AJ? If so, which is the partner? Is Dunn the ballsiest partner ever? Is OA the laziest partner ever?"

or is it a CW from a wagon on town to a wagon on town to set up false associatives. This is the sort of shit i did to fool Sakura in EoSD.

the point isn't necessarily the alignments of the people being wagoned, but the impetus for pushing their scumreads now and not before -- that impetus being a change in the gamestate regarding someone they're not voting (me) -- meaning agendas, instead of something their scumread did to change the read -- which would mean scumhunting.

I doubt it's Dunn/OA, but neither looks really good from this. I did beetlejuice Dunn which does explain why he acted when he did, but still

[borkjerfkin]

EoSD

man that was a great fucking game

[Dunnstral]

What I'd like to discuss though, is that I was the first player who signed up for the game and you'd think that I'd get my first choice character. But I didn't which was weird. Did the same thing happen to anyone else?

Not relevant to alignment, but I got my 3rd choice character and I replaced in for someone, I suspect the "draft order" was the order the picks were sent in

[Dunnstral]

Alright, I'm going to go through shadow's Iso and point things out that I had a problem with

Will catchup at some point.

Meanwhile, hello Pie!
I hope we can solve this game together.

For later ^

What in the actual FUCK people?

STOP FUCKING CLAIMING.

Too much vote switching from this slot and this seems like fake town concern.

"Stop claiming"
"Stop setup spec"
"Xyz is pro scum so stop doing it."

VOTE: Syryana

Hah! That's nothing! We got an even better role ^_^ It makes it so we become ascetics the night after anyone targets us with a night action!!! So don't try to do anything to us or you'll get your time wasted >:D

- Bubbles

I can resurrect a dead person once at the cost of my own life.

What in the actual FUCK people?

STOP FUCKING CLAIMING.

After reading the posts exactly above this, I'm even more convinced Syryana whatever their stupid name is, is scum.
Those claims are quite clearly not serious.

This doesn't look like something you think through and come up with as town - it looks to me like nitpicking in order to place a vote

Salutations.

I would like to discuss the pros/cons of mass flavor claiming. Please note that I am not actually proposing it as yet, I'd just like to discuss it.

The nature of this game intrinsically suggests that character is not linked to alignment. However, claiming flavor right from the start severely limits scum's ability to fakeclaim later on. You can't claim Kerrigan now, then pretend to be a Doctor later. It doesn't make sense. The downside of this, of course, is the reverse; someone claiming Lt. Morales would likely be perceived by scum to be a Doctor, despite the fact that Morales also has powers that could serve to provide Commute, Roleblock, or even Invent.

My point here is that, while claiming flavor this early is usually a bad idea, it deserves discussion this time around.

mafia must have been given safe fake claims by the mod. It can't be that easy.

This post was weird to say... OA wasn't saying to claim roles, just characters, and "fake claims" aren't needed because characters were chosen before alignment

basically what shadow is responding to... isn't actually what OA was saying. I don't think anybody else called this out.

Wouldn't mind lynching shadow-step at the moment

Why? You'd advocate a PL 2 days into d1?

This is the pathetic attempt to make something look worse than it actually is.

When Dunn replies to him he just avoids answering it which is even worse.

Wouldn't mind lynching shadow-step at the moment

Why? You'd advocate a PL 2 days into d1?

Never said anything about pl

Didn't like this.

What happens is that I live in a totally different time zone and then I wake up to 5-6 pages of new posts and I kind of procrastinate xD.
"I'll catch up later" it's a vicious cycle.

While this may be true, I saw shadow as town in dance mafia. He didn't bother to make excuses like this if I remember correctly, and he was under heavy pressure at the start.

Uh, just a feeling? I know you like to act like you should be obvious town but you haven't done anything to indicate it

Uh, just a feeling? I know you like to act like you should be obvious town but you haven't done anything to indicate it

I don't like act like anything. I know I'm town.

Doesn't really answer to what I was getting at, just basically says that since "he's town" he shouldn't consider my point of view

In post 109, Shadow_step wrote:
Will catchup at some point.

Meanwhile, hello Pie!
I hope we can solve this game together.

This smells stinky. Not sure why. Too earnest?

How about you ask me why I said it before jumping to conclusions?
Explain how it smells stinky apart from "gut"

It was because of the events of the last game we played together(Pie).

And yet you haven't talked to or about pie at all up to this point, despite seeming eager to "solve the game" with them.

You sound like you don't like him on a personal level, but you never said anything about your read on him?

I don't like him because I lose every game which he is in. I don't have much of a read on him. I'd lynch him day 1 if push comes to shove.

Sorry for your loss In advance
Really though, shadow knows I'm not getting lynched at this point. He doesn't really have a good reason to be suspecting me either, just something vague about me not responding to something

I've played with Shadow a few times now, I'm feeling like he's scum in this one.

[Dunnstral]

For aj I don't have stuff to point out specifically, though I liked his use of meta on me and I liked his reads: his read on shadow seems to be that he hasn't played with him enough and he seems good on a surface level which is understandable, I wouldn't say his vote on obvious alt is misplaced because aside from the lurky lurk thing they were fluffing to start

If I did have something to point out (which I don't) it would be:

I'm not going to take a stance on the wagon unless I explicitly feel you're town or scum.

Is there anybody you DO feel is explicitly town or scum? Or are even leaning in that direction? (also fyi Seiko is Notty and Pie, not penguin)

UNVOTE:

No scum reads, I only have town reads right now.

Dunn/Bork are my 'explicit' town reads. IDK S_S well enough to have a read, but I'm comfortable with what he's said thus far.

If you still find me suspicious, why unvote me?

I unvoted Seiko.

that Aj tripped up here and thinks he's being unvoted. It sounds dumb, but him not keeping track of the votes on him all that well while talking to someone makes me think he's likely to be town


I don't think he's a good lynch option for today, in any case. I'm seeing people vote for him because he's "off" or "funny" without really pointing to anything if I remember correctly, and it's a really weak wagon

[borkjerfkin]

this all looks a bit "let me fit this evidence to the conclusion I already came up with"

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Hisies!!! I haven't caught up yet!!! There's so much stuff to read!

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Hmph!!! Seiko is really mean but I don't think they're mean scum... I think they're mean TOWN who's trying to be mean to the mafia!!!

But we're not mafia

I still don't like Aj!!! he should be lynched... Dunstral, why dontcha wanna lynch him?

- Bubbles

[The Oxford Bubbles]

Wait a minute!! Dunnstral, ya said Aj was town cos he wasn't keeping track of the votes on him! That's a bad reason! Mafia can be absent minded too, ya know?

- Bubbles

[Aj The Epic]

Yeah, I noticed.

[Dunnstral]

this all looks a bit "let me fit this evidence to the conclusion I already came up with"

Not really though? I started noting things and I'm explaining it all at once, all I did before was say I would be explaining stuff

[Dunnstral]

Wait a minute!! Dunnstral, ya said Aj was town cos he wasn't keeping track of the votes on him! That's a bad reason! Mafia can be absent minded too, ya know?

- Bubbles

There was more to it than that, and that wasn't the only reason...

More importantly, why

is

he mafia then? Because I'm not seeing any arguments for that yet somehow it's normal for him to reach l-1

[borkjerfkin]

I think you guys are likely to be town, bork is towny, and had good feelings about syryana

seiko pretty scummy, aj slightly scummy

charloux idk

obvious alt is flaking

well i bring it up because here is your only mention of aj before you decided so vehemently that he was the wrong lynch

don't get me wrong, you're living to D2 as I see you're doing a thing; I just don't get it

[The Oxford Bubbles]

I'm not feeling well right now. I'll respond to SXN as soon as I can. What I can say right now is that we didn't claim at the beginning of the day because I didn't know if it was best to claim on day 1 or day 2. I'll get to the rest in a little while.

~ Raven

[Dunnstral]

I think you guys are likely to be town, bork is towny, and had good feelings about syryana

seiko pretty scummy, aj slightly scummy

charloux idk

obvious alt is flaking

well i bring it up because here is your only mention of aj before you decided so vehemently that he was the wrong lynch

don't get me wrong, you're living to D2 as I see you're doing a thing; I just don't get it

Right but AJ wasn't very active to start, if you compared my mentions of most other players it will seem similar I suspect

As of now everybodies at least posted enough for me to get a good feel

I'm not feeling well right now. I'll respond to SXN as soon as I can. What I can say right now is that we didn't claim at the beginning of the day because I didn't know if it was best to claim on day 1 or day 2. I'll get to the rest in a little while.

~ Raven

Uh, nobody asked you to claim?

[Dunnstral]

I also think this wagon is town driven/motivated. This basically leaves me entertaining the idea that AJ may be town.

What did this mean? Which wagon is town driven/motivated and why does that make AJ town?

[Syryana]

the point isn't necessarily the alignments of the people being wagoned, but the impetus for pushing their scumreads now and not before -- that impetus being a change in the gamestate regarding someone they're not voting (me) -- meaning agendas, instead of something their scumread did to change the read -- which would mean scumhunting.

Yeah it's really weird all round, hence why my head started spinning earlier.

I doubt it's Dunn/OA, but neither looks really good from this. I did beetlejuice Dunn which does explain why he acted when he did, but still

IMO OA looks worse than Dunn. I know the timing of the wagon is utter shit with it happening when it did and ultimately the reasoning for AJ-town is pretty lame (I'll deal with that in a minute) but I have this really strong feeling that Dunn isn't scum for it. It just feels really genuine to me I guess.

For aj I don't have stuff to point out specifically, though I liked his use of meta on me and I liked his reads: his read on shadow seems to be that he hasn't played with him enough and he seems good on a surface level which is understandable, I wouldn't say his vote on obvious alt is misplaced because aside from the lurky lurk thing they were fluffing to start

The meta thing is NAI to me. The rest of this just says that you think AJ is town because gut, basically.

What did this mean? Which wagon is town driven/motivated and why does that make AJ town?

Wagon = AJ wagon. Also, it doesn't. However, that other people (well, you really) I think are town are disagreeing with me on AJ at the eleventh hour makes me entertain the possibility I might be wrong about AJ.

That said, I haven't seen anything in your explanations that convinces me that I've missed something or misinterpreted something, so vote stays.

[Aj The Epic]

Syr I'm hoping you've realized by now that OA is scum. And that there's 100% more likelihood of a red flip there than me. And that I'm pretty sure I could tell you water's wet at this point and you'd still think I was lying.

Like in post 375 you allude to/mention a ton of issues with the way the last page has gone for me being scum. No prior runup wagon, only a 'wagon' starting after Bork (generally most town-read player) votes me. General doubts and no actual solid case on me having this wagon exist at L-1 makes less than zero sense. Just general "meh he's awkward" which, guess what? You KNOW I'm awkward regardless.

Compared to OA's, whose reads suck, who suddenly gets super fucking defensive on it when he notices who called it out, and whose vote screams inability to actually have the balls to call intent. He obviously wasn't liking me given his 'fuck off' response, so you'd assume he's placing me as scum. Odd that he avoids that wagon.

Also you igored Dunn off of gut town reading when your own explanation for scumreading me started with "a lot of it's gut"

[Dunnstral]

The rest of this just says that you think AJ is town because gut, basically.

What's your reason for scumreading him?

There's a lot of momentum but I don't think anybody offered up more than surface level dislike

[Shadow_step]

Dunn is scum who knows AJ is town hence the defense.

[Shadow_step]

This is the typical mafia move of trying to get someone who isn't being widely scum read lynched to save the scummy player for a future ML. They also get town cred this way because lol why is he defending town and is a good way to buddy up to AJ.

His whole reason to vote me is "I don't like this" and then accuses me of "nitpicking"
Why the hell do I need to talk to Pie?
What I said wasn't an excuse, I didn't say my activity will be lower because xyz reason, I explained why my activity was lower than usual.