Open 669 - Nightless Vengeful Mayhem [Game Over]

[mozamis]

Also y is Doom now guaranteed town?

he was in my town block back in that post i made "NOTE TO SELF".

no one is conformed, obviously, and doubtless my paranoia will leak through at some point.
Magna is also now very strong town.
He's practically acting as the town cop, paranoid of evryone, pushing the game on etc If he is scum, it's an epic performance. But he's not.

[mozamis]

Both of you need to explain why Hans as scum would go out of his way to be bothered about his (incorrect) perception that I was trying to tie him to FC and Sesq given both were Town.

i dont really know. Maybe he just wanted to posat something. Fabricate some bollocks, who knows? cause a bit of WIFOM? Dunno.

[mozamis]

Please elaborate what about an “Here’s an L-1, oops hammer” vote by UD looks quite Town

I dont think much elaboration is needed. In my experience, scum try and avoid the L-1 and the hammer.
Sure, maybe he's ballsy scum. To me, it just seemed town.

[mozamis]

I mean, look at how this wagon is failing to gain momentum.
Almost certainly because scum are pissing themselves about either hammering (if Rev is town), or putting Hans at L-1 (if Rev scum)
Although, looking at that, in this instance you would think scum might just all pile on for the quick lynch? (If rev was town).
To me it seems likely that Rev is scum and the two remaining scum dont want to leave themselves hanging in the wind at L-1.

[mozamis]

actually that above post could be bollocks shit

[mozamis]

yeah i think i wrote that post thinking "scum dont want to look bad for the Hans mislynch".
When i think Hans is scum.
Still, maybe they dont want to bus.
aaaaaaaagh tired posting ENOUGH MOZ

[mozamis]

Ok this is what I meant. The upshit is that Hans is scum.
Because:
If Hans is town, and Rev is town, why dont scum quick lynch?
If Hans is town, and Rev is scum, why dont scum put him at L-1?
Answer: Hans is scum.

[doomfeathers]

Doom...you've claimed to have went for reaction tests at least twice now. Do you do that a lot and has it ever paid dividends for you?

Also...can you explain why you say Magna is valuable to town?

I don't remember posting more than one reaction test. Hm.

No, I don't do it a lot, and I haven't had success with it. But I'm getting sick of constantly lynching townies as town, so I'm experimenting with new methods.

In my view, wgeurts and MagnaofIllusion are like the town leaders. They appear to be more experienced by their play, and are the main scumhunters. It's hard to explain fully. It's similar to the "town by activity" tell, but moreso.

I actually thought someone might use that comment as a negative (I can't recall the name of the tell) but I'm surprised it's you. If you're town your radar needs calibrated.

That tell name didn't sound familiar so I had to look. It's also called the "Wow that sucks" tell. Whatever the name...I knew that sort of opening comment was considered scummy by some but I wasn't too concerned because:

1) I wasn't NOT going to say what I was thinking because of it, and
2) I was curious if anyone would make a big deal out of it.

It sure seems that you put a lot of thought into figuring out whether people would think your post was scummy.

VOTE: havingfitz

Why doesn't it hold water? He could've been trying for a mislynch, but then realized it was going to be really hard so then he went back on it.

Oh, I guess you're talking about me. I didn't get that at first.

On second thought,

VOTE: Magnaof

Illussion

Its

partly a gut read, but his theory leading to two townie kills just seems

to

coincidental.

I breadcrumbed.

@Magna: I think it's plausible that Superhans was trying to avoid being tied to scumreads, not actual scum, or that he was trying to provoke this reaction to be linked with them.

[MagnaofIllusion]

I breadcrumbed.

I have to ask – what in the heck were you trying to breadcrumb there? I don’t see anything in what you quoted that looks like a breadcrumb.

--

Why doesn't it hold water? He could've been trying for a mislynch, but then realized it was going to be really hard so then he went back on it.

That sort of behavior is pretty suboptimal given the speed at which Hans back-pedaled. Did you have the impression at that point in the game I’d be any sort of easy mislynch? If you didn’t it is a fair assumption that Hans didn’t either and thus I don’t see that behavior as scum-oriented.

--

i dont really know. Maybe he just wanted to posat something. Fabricate some bollocks, who knows? cause a bit of WIFOM? Dunno.

Well generally if you can’t figure out a reasonable reason for scum to do something then it generally isn’t a scum-tell. None of those really benefit him as scum at all.

Maybe I’m wrong but that is where my head is at.

I dont think much elaboration is needed. In my experience, scum try and avoid the L-1 and the hammer.
Sure, maybe he's ballsy scum. To me, it just seemed town.

Please share your experience with me. My curiosity is piqued.

yeah i think i wrote that post thinking "scum dont want to look bad for the Hans mislynch".
When i think Hans is scum.

You know what this is called correct?

VOTE: Mozamis

My vote has been idle long enough.

--

Curious...were there any others you noticed potentially benefitting from the Hawk dayvig?

First off why is it curious? Second – why didn’t you look for yourself?

Do you, MOI, put a lot of credence in well-known standard tells?

Where do you see that I’m putting “a lot of credence” in the tell?

And the fact that the tell is well known doesn’t make it something to be immediately dismissed. If it wasn’t something viable it would never have gotten to the well known stage in the first place.

I mean...I love being townread as much as the next person but if you are going to call someone out for thinking you were town (i.e. me)...why not question everyone who does so?

I’ve eliminated the vast part of your response for readability – but to summarize yes I absolutely found your 157 as buddying. You are the only player who I have any significant history with and I know for a fact we have often had conflicting view on the game-state as Town. Enough so that your immediate agreement with many of my posts (that some others have not necessarily agreed with) set me radar on edge.

Others on the other hand have no track record with me and didn’t set my radar off. There is a difference between calling someone Town and agreeing in a way that feels manufactured. You fall into the second category.

[doomfeathers]

Oh, so Revan isn't talking about me? Never mind. I guessed wrong.

I purposely misspelled several words, including your username, indicating that something was amiss with my post. I bolded them in the quote.

[Superhans]

Oh, so Revan isn't talking about me? Never mind. I guessed wrong.

I purposely misspelled several words, including your username, indicating that something was amiss with my post. I bolded them in the quote.

Doomfather, why though?

[Superhans]

Ok this is what I meant. The upshit is that Hans is scum.
Because:
If Hans is town, and Rev is town, why dont scum quick lynch?
If Hans is town, and Rev is scum, why dont scum put him at L-1?
Answer: Hans is scum.

dont rate this logic at all. I barely understand it either, is 'him' me in this analogy?

[Superhans]

I mean, look at how this wagon is failing to gain momentum.
Almost certainly because scum are pissing themselves about either hammering (if Rev is town), or putting Hans at L-1 (if Rev scum)
Although, looking at that, in this instance you would think scum might just all pile on for the quick lynch? (If rev was town).
To me it seems likely that Rev is scum and the two remaining scum dont want to leave themselves hanging in the wind at L-1.

which wagon is failing to gain momentum, i assume you mean my wagon (?)

Also i mean your point about scum wanting to pile on for a quick lynch is kinda obvious to understand why scum wouldn't want to do that.

[Superhans]

[...]
I’ve eliminated the vast part of your response for readability – but to summarize yes I absolutely found your 157 as buddying. You are the only player who I have any significant history with and I know for a fact we have often had conflicting view on the game-state as Town. Enough so that your immediate agreement with many of my posts (that some others have not necessarily agreed with) set me radar on edge.

Others on the other hand have no track record with me and didn’t set my radar off. There is a difference between calling someone Town and agreeing in a way that feels manufactured. You fall into the second category.

@HavingFitz and @MOI
What are your differences in viewpoints on the game-state as town?

How do you think town should play, MOI,
How do you think town should play, Fitz

[Superhans]

@Mozamis,
What do you think about Wguert's read on Doomfeather a few pages back:

jeez...a lot to catch up on...almost all of it probably town on town bollocks as always...
i had a brief skim ealrier, and hawk looked SOOOOOOOOO TOWN.
So that's one down.

Eh, never mind. On second ISO, he doesn't look so scummy. I still disagree with avoiding content and judgments early on, though.

UNVOTE: Hawk

I honestly don't feel like we are out of RVS... all of this content you guys think is here feels forced and easily could be fluff. Like I said Null feels all around. Plus I like engaging people rather than just googling it. Do you think Revan voted me out of RVS? I don't think so. If he did he better speak now. Ignore shit that doesn't partake to the game if it's one damn post if it bothers you that much.

Yes, we are out of RVS. We have been for a while now. Once someone votes someone else for a good reason rather than just at random, RVS ends. And I was not saying that you were playing poorly, but that your post had what I saw as likely scum motivation. Why should I ignore it?

Doom, figuring out scum's best play is what town is meant to do. Like chess, you should always be predicting what they're going to do. Considering what's town and scum are likely to do, and reading posts to see which motivation makes more sense, is what we call scum-hunting. It's very hard to catch scum if you don't spend time thinking about what scum do, they're not going to hand themselves over on a platter. Me posting on it means everyone can take it into consideration. It's also not so that I've only posted game theory, you're leaving part of my posts untouched.

Unlike chess, I see here a difference between best play and likely play; however, I can see how predicting scum's best play would be a valid strategy, though naming it so they can avoid it seems a little odd.

UNVOTE: wgeurts

Also, hell yes we should form a town bloc, that's literally what we should be aiming for. Right now though? Definitely not, and I've never said so. That happens later game, once reads are more established, people have flipped, and one or two scum shots have gone off. How is this suspicious? You can't just call things suspicious without explaining why.

Thank you for clarifying that we're waiting until later. I have problems with limitations on who I vote for without reasons I see as good.

A. That's a stretch as really nobody's going to be distracted by a side-discussion about someone's username. Thus no time is wasted. Scum know this if they're decent at least.

It could clog up the thread if done right. I read an article about that.

B. Why would scum do that so early on? Stalling and redirecting attention is best done mid-late day when the deadline draws near or a scum-partner is in danger. Neither of those conditions have been met yet.

Thank you for explaining this; I didn't know.

C. It is still RVS, notice how people don't have firm reads and are randomly voting?

"Without firm reads" is far different from "randomly". You are voting me for a reason, no?

VOTE: Hawk

Alright doom is town, and you'll have to lynch me before I tolerate someone going after him.

[Superhans]

is this the same reason you town read Doom in post 98?

[Superhans]

Also has anything dooms done since page 98 (350+ posts back) influenced your read on him?

[doomfeathers]

Oh, so Revan isn't talking about me? Never mind. I guessed wrong.

I purposely misspelled several words, including your username, indicating that something was amiss with my post. I bolded them in the quote.

Doomfather, why though?

If I'm going to purposely act scummy, I don't want people thinking it was by accident.

[Superhans]

Oh, so Revan isn't talking about me? Never mind. I guessed wrong.

I purposely misspelled several words, including your username, indicating that something was amiss with my post. I bolded them in the quote.

Doomfather, why though?

If I'm going to purposely act scummy, I don't want people thinking it was by accident.

i buy this to be honest. Like i dont think mispelling peoples names is the right way to go about justifying a reaction test; i think if it was a good reaction test you wouldn't need to have mispelled a name to prove it was a reaction test. However, i think your heart was in the right place.

[Superhans]

(is Fitz okay?)

Sure.

lol only just caught that

[MagnaofIllusion]

@HavingFitz and @MOI
What are your differences in viewpoints on the game-state as town?

Well to be clear - I'm not talking about grand philosophical ideals. I'm talking about having disagreements / suspecting each other when we are have both been Town in the past.

Granted those games are 4 to 5 years old so my recollection is fairly cloudy. I could probably dig up some games if you were interested.

[Superhans]

it wouldnt hurt if you linked the games, although i dont really have any interest in trying to evaluate meta from a game I wasn't part of. Probably wouldn't be that difficult for u and Fitz to have a read through and see if it impacts your reads on one another.

[lucca261]

Reading. Will catchup now.

[havingfitz]

I don't remember posting more than one reaction test. Hm.

I misspoke. Either I was confusing early game gambits from a different game or I was thinking about your "LAMIST" post on page one. Which was not a gambit. Disregard.

In my view, wgeurts and MagnaofIllusion are like the town leaders. They appear to be more experienced by their play, and are the main scumhunters. It's hard to explain fully. It's similar to the "town by activity" tell, but moreso.

So for no solid alignment indicative reason. Ok.

It sure seems that you put a lot of thought into figuring out whether people would think your post was scummy.

I think about what I post. If I cared whether people thought a comment I made would seem scummy...I wouldn't make the comment to begin with. I

was

curious if anyone would.

I breadcrumbed.

That's as bad a breadcrumb as I have ever seen. No...it is the worst I've seen.

------------------------------------------------

Curious...were there any others you noticed potentially benefitting from the Hawk dayvig?

First off why is it curious? Second – why didn’t you look for yourself?

It isn't curious, I was curious. I didn't look myself because I was reading on my phone at the time and didn't feel like that hassle. You said Moz and wgeurts were the "strongest candidates" which made it seem like there were other...less strong candidates. Which was where my curiosity was.

Do you, MOI, put a lot of credence in well-known standard tells?

Where do you see that I’m putting “a lot of credence” in the tell?

And the fact that the tell is well known doesn’t make it something to be immediately dismissed. If it wasn’t something viable it would never have gotten to the well known stage in the first place.

I didn't say you

were

putting a lot of credence in standard tells...I was asking you

if

you did.

I mean...I love being townread as much as the next person but if you are going to call someone out for thinking you were town (i.e. me)...why not question everyone who does so?

I’ve eliminated the vast part of your response for readability – but to summarize yes I absolutely found your 157 as buddying. You are the only player who I have any significant history with and I know for a fact we have often had conflicting view on the game-state as Town. Enough so that your

immediate agreement with many of my posts

(that some others have not necessarily agreed with) set me radar on edge.

Others on the other hand have no track record with me and didn’t set my radar off. There is a difference between calling someone Town and agreeing in a way that feels manufactured. You fall into the second category.

The "immediate" was a single catch up that referred to two (

many?

) of your posts. I think your buddy meter has a hair trigger. It feels like you are trying to shade events that have no reason to be shaded. I'm not going to look but I would be surprised if in any of our past games I did not agt some point agree with something you may have said.

-----------------------------------------------

@HavingFitz and @MOI
What are your differences in viewpoints on the game-state as town?

How do you think town should play, MOI,
How do you think town should play, Fitz

I don't see the point in these questions. The first one requires effort I see no return on and the second is just...worthless.

it wouldnt hurt if you linked the games, although i dont really have any interest in trying to evaluate meta from a game I wasn't part of. Probably wouldn't be that difficult for u and Fitz to have a read through and see if it impacts your reads on one another.

no.

[mozamis]

You know what this is called correct?

you being a twat?