Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Akane and Nebby]

Really Elbrin? Really?
Cuz, the way I see it no resolution was getting popular and you just decided to hop along for the ride.

-Nebby

[Yuri]

No reads 'cept Akane and Nebby are kinda town. Most of this is arguing over mechanics and is NAI. No one's gonna be pushing a scum agenda in this phase on purpose, though I think it's the right call to look at who is trying to fly under the radar.

Probably gonna vote None, I don't see the others getting traction. But I'd really rather Science!

[Akane and Nebby]

Then vote Science...
-Nebby

[Lil Uzi Vert]

@PV: Yeah and 4 out of those 5 have potential to go seriously wrong.

Really? How so?

- Scum can act like they're a PR by bread crumbing or lay lowing and can trick a town who choose the doctor power to protect them
- Scum benefit if they get to neighborize someone or someone neighorizes them since they not only get information they might have not had but also get to manipulate in private
- Scum can use the cop on death to get an idea of who to kill
- Scum can try to act as vigilante bait and get the vigilante killed

Lol LUV sidestepping.

I should try to sort some other nerds real quickly lmao

Who are your scumreads?

@Maxous, half a read?

Just Leon and half of the A&N hydra. I could see Spliff as well.

[Yuri]

K that's a lie I do have reads. Like Leon, dude, did it really not occur to you why outing every single PR would be a bad idea? Cause normally town just thinks about that by default, and scum have nothin to fear.

[Yuri]

Then vote Science...
-Nebby

Maybe I will!
VOTE: Science

[PeregrineV]

- Scum can act like they're a PR by bread crumbing or lay lowing and can trick a town who choose the doctor power to protect them

Except all the power roles are out in the open.
Town doc will choose who they think is best.
Scum doc, if they bother, wont protect the NK.

- Scum benefit if they get to neighborize someone or someone neighorizes them since they not only get information they might have not had but also get to manipulate in private

Smart town dont share with neighbors without reason. And most scum do not fare well in neighborhoods.

- Scum can use the cop on death to get an idea of who to kill

That's ok, since they are dead anyway.

- Scum can try to act as vigilante bait and get the vigilante killed

This is not a role currently in the game.

[The DEO]

- Scum can use the cop on death to get an idea of who to kill

This is wierd and stretchy.

A scumread on Spiffeh? Really? A and N hydra? They're big townreads of mine, although I think they are wrong on Elbrin.

[Elbirn]

Really Elbrin? Really?
Cuz, the way I see it no resolution was getting popular and you just decided to hop along for the ride.

-Nebby

[Elbirn]

Well I just cast the losing vote in lylo in another game so mafia is now depressing

I'm gonna go play that fire emblem phone app game thing wish me luck

[Akane and Nebby]

Elbrin I liked your other avi a lot better. Your current one makes me cry ;~;
-Nebby

[The DEO]

Spiffeh/PV, how long should we wait for Drixx? The consensus seems to be clear, but I want him here.

[Nero Cain]

nuke:Sondam

[Nero Cain]

I kinda want the pyramids but then I'd like to hold out for a vig/cop.

[Fro99er]

Some reads

Town:
Spiff, TitusMath, Alihydra, MariaGerry, LUV

Scum:
Leon

[Vecna]

I bet india is a 3rd party factions that automatically wins it survives to the modern age

[Drixx]

Let me rephrase why science is bad for town: Scum is going to have daychat. As soon as they know what wonders come up during the next day, they have -5- persons to strategize how to obtain the most powerfull wonders for themselves.

Any vote for a resolution is a scumvote from here on out.

it is so decreed by me, vecna

Scum will only have daychat if one of their team decides to build the wonder that allows it. That person then has to survive, which makes them easier to spot (assuming we don't do the usual thing where lurkers get allowed to lurk the first few days for no fucking reason). As an added bonus, whenever the mid game mass claim arrives, that person has to lie.

And umm... limit 1 wonder per player means a scum team of (wait ... you know it's 5???) your indicated size will get to strategize exactly N-1 times all game (I'm assuming scum take daychat). I can see that being an advantage to them, sure, but there's way more town than scum. Further, scum are the informed minority. Sciences gives everyone extra info and thus closes the information gap. In other words ... your logic needs work.

Finally, we have Titus in game, and once we know we can trust Titus, that's the biggest reason to advocate for more info. For anyone who isn't aware of how absurdly good she is at synergizing town roles, go mosey on over to Suikoden mafia and watch as she takes a few seemingly weak roles and gets them working together and

gets the entire fucking scum team right on day one, with no town on her scum list, except the 2-man mason team who were giving a false positive (and included me, who Titus notoriously distrusts)

. Yeah ... I'm going to say we play the odds that Titus is more likely town than not and we close the info gap.

Thanks for trying to shove your shitty logic down our throats though. Also, will be watching since that certainty of scum team size might be a slip. on you!

VOTE: Science

The fact that Titus is not acknowledging the concerns for Sciences that a few of us have raised and keeps harping on "but we could do this with these roles!!!" is concerning.

Spiffeh you're better than this. Titus is absurdly good with information and if people will let her do her thing. Throwing shade on her for doing exactly what one would expect her to do as town ... not so good.

@Titus I refuse to go another game coordinating night actions unnecessarily after The Thing Mafia. The Thing was different in that everyone's role was public knowledge so it made sense to coordinate night actions and even then, scum had a pretty easy time slipping through the cracks because of every night action being public.

What you're suggesting gives scum a roadmap as to how to proceed during the night JUST like it did in that game.

I still have PTSD
~Maria

Well, that's an issue and if you feel that way, I don't think my words will stop you. It hinders my towngame to have less information, so that is why I said it is a personal choice. I still feel town coordinate better than scum if we keep asking the why factor, something that was missed in The Thing after we died.

That being said, anyone who makes an argument about scum can coordinate too is *side eye*. Of course scum can, but that reeks more of denying info to town boogeyman. Saying town sucks at coordinating is different.

If I can identify town early, I am good at optimizing us.

Yet others do not play like that as a whole.

So we're going to play sub-optimally because a couple of people screwed up in a different game with different players with different mechanics? What kind of reasoning ends up with that as an end point? Wake up sheeple ... each game is a unique entity. Take what's useful from it and leave the rest behind.

Right now, scum have to choose whether or not to pick one of the existing wonders.

Why do people want to pick science that will tell them that better scum powers are coming?

Because we outnumber scum greatly and it closes the information gap.

I think the tree stump power is arguable the best one depending on who takes it.

Agreed. I am tempted to just declare I'm going to take it, as I unilaterally did in Space Dandy 2 ... but that kind of caused a shitstorm.

Intent to build tree stump wonder. Any objections?

No wonder powers so far have been 1-shot actions either so I also don't feel like playing around that either. (Also if we see a blocked cop whoever takes a roleblocker power would obviously be conf scum.)

Also I am assuming whoever takes the treestump power is scum and will ignore them.

That's why a townie should try to take it, to block scum from getting it.

Tree stump in the hands of an engaged active town player who is good in the mid and late game is like ... crazy optimal.

Yuck. The only player that should claim tomorrow is Stonehenge and Treestump. Maybe not Stonehenge.

Why should the Treestump claim? If town, the Treestump drawing the night kill would be better than anyone else.

Treestump hides flip. That's a negative utility that gets claimed. It should only go to people who we insist stay at endgame. There's only one person who has posted that I feel confident as town with that ability (not us).

Agreed. Treestump claims due to the negative utility associated with it. This isn't normal treestump where you KNOW that the person is town because they flipped and you basically have a voteless IC. Whomever stumps this game will only be as powerful as their ability to build town cohesion and earn trust. Also ... probably should be someone who is good at the end game.

The list of people who can do both of those things effectively (from among whom I've played with recently enough to be confident I know them well) isn't tremendously long.

[Drixx]

I bet india is a 3rd party factions that automatically wins it survives to the modern age

Why? Seriously ... why?

[Nero Cain]

I bet india is a 3rd party factions that automatically wins it survives to the modern age

Why? Seriously ... why?

and the issue?

[Vecna]

I kinda think we should get all of these wonders, theyre all decent enough.

Doc on a lurker towny that will be unlikely to get nkd please. Let them scums hunt in that group for once.

Denying that bp/kill shit from mafia would be nice as well and allows at least a chance to turn a scumkill against em. The rest ia even more obvious.

Better to use inferior skills than to die without having used one

[Spiffeh]

Can we hammer a vote on None before Science actually becomes a plausible please

[Leonshade]

@PV: Yeah and 4 out of those 5 have potential to go seriously wrong.

Really? How so?

- Scum can act like they're a PR by bread crumbing or lay lowing and can trick a town who choose the doctor power to protect them
- Scum benefit if they get to neighborize someone or someone neighorizes them since they not only get information they might have not had but also get to manipulate in private
- Scum can use the cop on death to get an idea of who to kill
- Scum can try to act as vigilante bait and get the vigilante killed

These seem to be based on the idea that town is dumb. And yes, scum getting PRs is bad and town getting them is good, it's not rocket science.

K that's a lie I do have reads. Like Leon, dude, did it really not occur to you why outing every single PR would be a bad idea? Cause normally town just thinks about that by default, and scum have nothin to fear.

I hadn't read how the wonders worked when I posted that, I was mostly thinking about build priority and stopping scummy players from getting PRs.

[Akane and Nebby]

Titus, why are you TRing Spiffeh again?
Cuz I really, really do not like 245
-Nebby

[Lil Uzi Vert]

- Scum can act like they're a PR by bread crumbing or lay lowing and can trick a town who choose the doctor power to protect them

Except all the power roles are out in the open.
Town doc will choose who they think is best.
Scum doc, if they bother, wont protect the NK.

- Scum benefit if they get to neighborize someone or someone neighorizes them since they not only get information they might have not had but also get to manipulate in private

Smart town dont share with neighbors without reason. And most scum do not fare well in neighborhoods.

- Scum can use the cop on death to get an idea of who to kill

That's ok, since they are dead anyway.

- Scum can try to act as vigilante bait and get the vigilante killed

This is not a role currently in the game.

- Scum can use the cop on death to get an idea of who to kill

This is wierd and stretchy.

A scumread on Spiffeh? Really? A and N hydra? They're big townreads of mine, although I think they are wrong on Elbrin.

The overall point is the risks are too damn high while there are literally none with tree stump. You guys are going to outsmart yourselves and get duped by scum.

I didn't like Spiff's interactions with beeboy. Mala head is what's pinging me about A&N.

[Drixx]

Can we hammer a vote on None before Science actually becomes a plausible please

Seriously? What part of "we have a player incredible at synergizing town roles" and "closing the information gap" were unclear?

It would be one thing if wonders were unlimited, but you're talking about literally leaving us in the dark and keeping the informed minority stronger because why again? You realize scum will almost certainly just take their daychat today, bumping them up in priority and they will be selective whether they can see ahead or not. They'll want to be high priority so they can take whatever will help them. Gouging out our eyes and keeping the info gap the same isn't going to change that.

You're literally arguing scum's case for them. In a stunning case of irony, this makes me fairly certain you're town.


P-Edit: Because why on earth would scum commit themselves to their best viable course so vocally when it looks like we're going to be stupid and give it to them without any need for them to expose themselves at all?