Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Nero Cain]

Let's just hammer None so we can get to actually voting our scum reads.

you are yours and why?

[Fro99er]

Can there be a way to ensure each member picks a different wonder without scum knowing?

No, but we could do something close.

Like frog chooses from {X, Y}, drixx chooses from {Y, Z}, titus chooses from {Z, X}

And if we had enough coverage of this it would at least not let scum know who chose what exactly, and probably lets us get close to choosing them all, if not actually choosing them all with mid-teens town players.

[Vecna]

You decision whether to pick or wait should mainly be determined by how much something fits your personal style, and how likely you think it is that youre getting nightkilled soon (if it can still be made usefull at least).

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Let's just hammer None so we can get to actually voting our scum reads.

you are yours and why?

Huh?

[Drixx]

The only reason to pass on day chat would be because they hope something better will come along later. Day chat is like one of the main advantages scum have on this site (and the site statistics back it up). The idea that they would pass on it (remember: they can only build it today ... if they pass on it, then presumably it's gone forever {excepting if multiple wonders repeat the same effect, which would be lazy and I know Nahdia isn't}) just because Science lets them plan what buildings to try for at night ... is just plain absurd. Planning which buildings to take is like priority level negative (insert really large integer) compared to what scum can use day chat to coordinate. The whole argument is so over the top ridiculous that I'm seriously wondering if Vecna is just trolling me at this point.

I agree daychat is very powerful, which was my main concern for not wanting science in the first place.

I think what Vecna is saying is that if science is chosen, then they can pass on choosing day chat to try to block off as many of the other D1 wonders that only town can grab, thereby limiting town's power a bit more. They can coordinate at night, knowing they get to choose that night from D1 wonders also with knowledge of what D2 wonders are. So it's not about waiting for powers as much as limiting town's powers on D1.

I'm not sure if that's enough of an argument to make me want to choose none, because I also buy your science argument. I think titus and spiffeh are town. I thought you were town on your first post, but then the back and forth with you and Vecna I have no idea. I've also never seen scum!drixx play. I'm town and if you, titus, spiffeh, ABR are town, we're going to win this. It'll be like mafiaception, but with titus on our side.

Check what Nahdia said. Wonders are only available on their day. Scum can't pass up daychat today and take it tomorrow after discussing tonight. Regardless of science or !science, they are locked into taking day chat today or not at all.

Also I can point you to my scum games but they're all pretty old at this point. A bunch of them are in the newbie queue since I spend time ICing there and working on my game when there's little to no role interaction and it's just reading people (worst part of my game, by far). The best place to get an idea of scum!me is probably SMITE. But it's like ... WAY out of date.

---

I deleted the rest of my post. Intervening posts made it unnecessary.


P.S. - Please seriously go look at Suikoden and Inception before you guys vote none. We have a huge group of the players who led those two smashing town victories in this game. Like ... if there was ever a game to bet that town will function properly and recognize each other and maximize one another's strengths ... THIS is the player list that you want to bet on. PLEASE don't cut off an avenue of great potential utility out of fear. The "but scum can..." stuff is all true, but it's also just fear mongering. The advantage is equal in terms of info, but disproportionately in town's favor due to numbers and the 1-wonder limit.

[Akane and Nebby]

VOTE: None

- Akane

P.S: No one pick the wonder we picked, okay? It has our stamp on it.

P.P.S: Yes, but we want this one in particular.

[The DEO]

Wait tf did they just agree to chill for now? Hot damn

Also DEO, now that I look at it, Fro99er is also defending Vecna, even explaining how he perceives vecna's points to Drixx. I don't have a problem w Fro99er doin this, but I'm wondering why you don't.

I'm focused on you and your hard defense, not just people townreading Vecna.

[Vecna]

Can there be a way to ensure each member picks a different wonder without scum knowing?

No, but we could do something close.

Like frog chooses from {X, Y}, drixx chooses from {Y, Z}, titus chooses from {Z, X}

And if we had enough coverage of this it would at least not let scum know who chose what exactly, and probably lets us get close to choosing them all, if not actually choosing them all with mid-teens town players.

Scum killing the person in the middle confirms the sides though.

Something similair -might- work but passing to reduce the odds of scum coordinating their way to the strongest abilities should not be underestimated either.

[Pine]

Ego post

Aeronaut and I are discussing a name change before we start for real, we will jump in as soon as he responds.

[Akane and Nebby]

Sorry, Drixx.....

- Akane

p-edit: We already chosen a wonder.

[The DEO]

The only reason to pass on day chat would be because they hope something better will come along later. Day chat is like one of the main advantages scum have on this site (and the site statistics back it up). The idea that they would pass on it (remember: they can only build it today ... if they pass on it, then presumably it's gone forever {excepting if multiple wonders repeat the same effect, which would be lazy and I know Nahdia isn't}) just because Science lets them plan what buildings to try for at night ... is just plain absurd. Planning which buildings to take is like priority level negative (insert really large integer) compared to what scum can use day chat to coordinate. The whole argument is so over the top ridiculous that I'm seriously wondering if Vecna is just trolling me at this point.

I agree daychat is very powerful, which was my main concern for not wanting science in the first place.

I think what Vecna is saying is that if science is chosen, then they can pass on choosing day chat to try to block off as many of the other D1 wonders that only town can grab, thereby limiting town's power a bit more. They can coordinate at night, knowing they get to choose that night from D1 wonders also with knowledge of what D2 wonders are. So it's not about waiting for powers as much as limiting town's powers on D1.

I'm not sure if that's enough of an argument to make me want to choose none, because I also buy your science argument. I think titus and spiffeh are town. I thought you were town on your first post, but then the back and forth with you and Vecna I have no idea. I've also never seen scum!drixx play. I'm town and if you, titus, spiffeh, ABR are town, we're going to win this. It'll be like mafiaception, but with titus on our side.

Check what Nahdia said. Wonders are only available on their day. Scum can't pass up daychat today and take it tomorrow after discussing tonight. Regardless of science or !science, they are locked into taking day chat today or not at all.

Also I can point you to my scum games but they're all pretty old at this point. A bunch of them are in the newbie queue since I spend time ICing there and working on my game when there's little to no role interaction and it's just reading people (worst part of my game, by far). The best place to get an idea of scum!me is probably SMITE. But it's like ... WAY out of date.

---

I deleted the rest of my post. Intervening posts made it unnecessary.


P.S. - Please seriously go look at Suikoden and Inception before you guys vote none. We have a huge group of the players who led those two smashing town victories in this game. Like ... if there was ever a game to bet that town will function properly and recognize each other and maximize one another's strengths ... THIS is the player list that you want to bet on. PLEASE don't cut off an avenue of great potential utility out of fear. The "but scum can..." stuff is all true, but it's also just fear mongering. The advantage is equal in terms of info, but disproportionately in town's favor due to numbers and the 1-wonder limit.

Science is ideal, but it's not the end of the world if I don't get it. What's more important is the focusing on reads and figuring out how to use everyone's scumhunting to the best so far. If I thought Science was life or death, I'd say so.

[Maxous]

Enough.
The roles are literally based around night kills.
Stop leaving hints who's taking a PR
TIA

[Fro99er]

You decision whether to pick or wait should mainly be determined by how much something fits your personal style, and how likely you think it is that youre getting nightkilled soon (if it can still be made usefull at least).

I sort of agree, but what if we said "I'll choose from {X, Y}" instead of just the one that fit our playstyle. If we just let everyone pick their favorite power, then a smart scum who knows the playstyle of some town members could probably make educated guesses as to who picked what.

But the option version probably guarantee us close to complete coverage of the wonders from town (obviously barring what scum themselves does with PMing the mod), while letting most of us pick two closest options to their playstyle (a player or two might have to sacrifice to ensure full coverage), and making sure scum don't know who is choosing what.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The problem Drix is that we've seen MB and Titus play tend to backfire on town.

[Nero Cain]

Let's just hammer None so we can get to actually voting our scum reads.

you are yours and why?

Huh?

you said you wanted to end this to get to the voting stage and vote your scum reads...so who are they?

[Vecna]

Wait tf did they just agree to chill for now? Hot damn

Also DEO, now that I look at it, Fro99er is also defending Vecna, even explaining how he perceives vecna's points to Drixx. I don't have a problem w Fro99er doin this, but I'm wondering why you don't.

I'm focused on you and your hard defense, not just people townreading Vecna.

Titus, are you looking for people defending their scum-teammate, or scum just white-knighting?

If its the first, please use your energy more productive.

[Fro99er]

Wonders are only available on their day. Scum can't pass up daychat today and take it tomorrow after discussing tonight.

I know. I never said that.

[The DEO]

Can there be a way to ensure each member picks a different wonder without scum knowing?

No, but we could do something close.

Like frog chooses from {X, Y}, drixx chooses from {Y, Z}, titus chooses from {Z, X}

And if we had enough coverage of this it would at least not let scum know who chose what exactly, and probably lets us get close to choosing them all, if not actually choosing them all with mid-teens town players.

Not a fan of this, but I'll sleep on this.

Frogger, what are your reads?

[Nero Cain]

Titus play tend to backfire on town.

This makes me almost not want to kill you.

[Drixx]

Can there be a way to ensure each member picks a different wonder without scum knowing?

No, but we could do something close.

Like frog chooses from {X, Y}, drixx chooses from {Y, Z}, titus chooses from {Z, X}

And if we had enough coverage of this it would at least not let scum know who chose what exactly, and probably lets us get close to choosing them all, if not actually choosing them all with mid-teens town players.

This is a start. It needs more work but I want to see ABR and Titus some more before I say more of what I'm thinking. I'd also like to see Spiffeh engage with my points so I can sort him. I'm like ... the WORST ever at reading Spiffeh.

You decision whether to pick or wait should mainly be determined by how much something fits your personal style, and how likely you think it is that youre getting nightkilled soon (if it can still be made usefull at least).

This. So much this. If you are going to tryhard obvtown, don't take something absurdly useful.

[Fro99er]

Scum killing the person in the middle confirms the sides though.

There is no middle. It's a loop. And if we have 6 town players it's

2x {X, Y}
2x {X, Z}
2x {Y, Z}

Type stuff. One scum kill doesn't confirm anything

[The DEO]

The problem Drix is that we've seen MB and Titus play tend to backfire on town.

And the Pick Your Power game? Hmm.

This game shouldn't be focused on measuring our past achievements or perceived lack their of. My town play has improved from where it was. The point is to figure out who is town and get the best out of them. So, if you think I'm town, you should help me avoid my pitfalls. If you think I'm scum, the goal should be the opposite.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Let's just hammer None so we can get to actually voting our scum reads.

you are yours and why?

Huh?

you said you wanted to end this to get to the voting stage and vote your scum reads...so who are they?

Leon.

[Vecna]

You decision whether to pick or wait should mainly be determined by how much something fits your personal style, and how likely you think it is that youre getting nightkilled soon (if it can still be made usefull at least).

I sort of agree, but what if we said "I'll choose from {X, Y}" instead of just the one that fit our playstyle. If we just let everyone pick their favorite power, then a smart scum who knows the playstyle of some town members could probably make educated guesses as to who picked what.

But the option version probably guarantee us close to complete coverage of the wonders from town (obviously barring what scum themselves does with PMing the mod), while letting most of us pick two closest options to their playstyle (a player or two might have to sacrifice to ensure full coverage), and making sure scum don't know who is choosing what.

True, allthough that probably wont be enough information to make very educated guesses since the ammount of variables involved whether someone gets it grows larger and larger as the days pass.

[Akane and Nebby]

I discussed this with Nebby and she agrees with me. We both don't want to allow this number priority stuff to screw us over.

- Akane