Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Vecna achieved obvtown levels earlier and I really want DEO hydra to not be salty at them

Talk to me about this? I haven't liked the way it has been shading The DEO, yet comes across as though it believes they're town when it does.

Your assumption that it will be obvious when Titus is scum is false.

Approaching her like that is a mistake.

I have meta-reasons to be suspicious. Maybe they will vanish in time, maybe they will not.

Call it shading if you want, I really dont care.

Im gonna keep an open mind and not rule anything out for now.

Ill try to do so without getting in the way of town-titus (if that is the case), but im gonna keep prodding to see if everyhing is in order.

So far nothing ive seen from Titus should give anyone a lock on her alignment, so "shading me for shading her" is total nonsense.

I mean to be fair I'm more interested in the MathBlade head currently, as I think they're the one I'll be able to read easiest of the two due to experience, but I don't think I've ever incorrectly read Titus when she's been scum. 2 game titus replacemenet meta OP.

I get the benefit of the doubt and wanting Titus to do her job if she's town, but I feel like your posts have been more designed to throw doubt on her reads a lot.

I do like that you were willing to stick your neck out so far for your LUV read though. My issue is just with Elbirn calling it "obvtown levels" when I'm not sure on things as they stand.

[Vecna]

Alright, brief catch up summary.

Nero town.
Maria/Gerry town.
Mathblade is town. Titus is Titus.
Froggy town who took my comment on Yuri too seriously (I explained the context m8).
Still content with my vote on Spiffeh. His Titus read is not good and the vote on me is lol.
Kyouko possible scum. Attack on beeboy was complete lamesauce.
Don't trust A&N Hydra's over aggression as much as some others do. They're hedging their bets on too many wagons and some of the reads are too surface level looking for my liking.

Interesting set of reads even though its somewhat lacking in scumreads.

UNVOTE: Maxous

No hurry

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Got like Vecna, AnN, Drixx TRs so far. It was hard to digest much of anything because I only read and didn't take it in as it happened. Off work tomorrow though so I'm hopeful for tomorrow

[NoticeMeSenpai]

I know that but just stop. The non-town part was originally in italics which naturally forces people to draw their attention to it. There is no way you missed that.

So you're positing I came into this thread, as scum, saw it said "non-town", then thought "hey you know what would be an absolutely brilliant idea??? Trying to get town to build this for ??? reasons because Nahdia wouldn't OBVIOUSLY point out to them that it's a non-town wonder!"

Fuck off.

Forcing townslips by pretending to not read something scum wouldve obviously read and be aware of though?

I mean, either its a hard townslip or a forced one/dumbtell.

That sounds like a plausible strategy for scum wouldnt you agree?

I mean that didn't cross my mind at that point, but yeah.

I don't necessarily think those are the only two options though. Carelessness and trying to rush things can come from either alignment. Overall it's pretty null to have not read something fully because you're trying to rush things.

Reading things as townslips when they're not more often than not causes a loss.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

At first also I thought it's weird to not see the scum only part of the daychat wonder, but then I thought I remembered the right half of the table to only have the effect so I thought "maybe he only read the effects and the scum thing was on the left side next to the name" but then I looked back and that's not how it is so I have no idea how he didn't see it

[Vecna]

Vecna achieved obvtown levels earlier and I really want DEO hydra to not be salty at them

Talk to me about this? I haven't liked the way it has been shading The DEO, yet comes across as though it believes they're town when it does.

Your assumption that it will be obvious when Titus is scum is false.

Approaching her like that is a mistake.

I have meta-reasons to be suspicious. Maybe they will vanish in time, maybe they will not.

Call it shading if you want, I really dont care.

Im gonna keep an open mind and not rule anything out for now.

Ill try to do so without getting in the way of town-titus (if that is the case), but im gonna keep prodding to see if everyhing is in order.

So far nothing ive seen from Titus should give anyone a lock on her alignment, so "shading me for shading her" is total nonsense.

I mean to be fair I'm more interested in the MathBlade head currently, as I think they're the one I'll be able to read easiest of the two due to experience, but I don't think I've ever incorrectly read Titus when she's been scum. 2 game titus replacemenet meta OP.

I get the benefit of the doubt and wanting Titus to do her job if she's town, but I feel like your posts have been more

designed to throw doubt on her reads a lot.

I do like that you were willing to stick your neck out so far for your LUV read though. My issue is just with Elbirn calling it "obvtown levels" when I'm not sure on things as they stand.

You mean when I told her not to base her reads off of me being scum?
Or you mean when I was telling her her LUV read was wrong?

Not really sure what else you would base that off on, but please do enlighten me.

Better back up statements like that or just back down

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Got like Vecna, AnN, Drixx TRs so far. It was hard to digest much of anything because I only read and didn't take it in as it happened. Off work tomorrow though so I'm hopeful for tomorrow

Same tbh, it's why I'm trying to engage despite feeling fried, basically.

What's your take on Spiffeh? Specifically his push against a resolution due to experiences from a past game, the reaction to someone pointing out what looked like Frogger buddying him, and Frogger's push on him for joining the Maxous wagon?

[Vecna]

I know that but just stop. The non-town part was originally in italics which naturally forces people to draw their attention to it. There is no way you missed that.

So you're positing I came into this thread, as scum, saw it said "non-town", then thought "hey you know what would be an absolutely brilliant idea??? Trying to get town to build this for ??? reasons because Nahdia wouldn't OBVIOUSLY point out to them that it's a non-town wonder!"

Fuck off.

Forcing townslips by pretending to not read something scum wouldve obviously read and be aware of though?

I mean, either its a hard townslip or a forced one/dumbtell.

That sounds like a plausible strategy for scum wouldnt you agree?

I mean that didn't cross my mind at that point, but yeah.

I don't necessarily think those are the only two options though. Carelessness and trying to rush things can come from either alignment. Overall it's pretty null to have not read something fully because you're trying to rush things.

Reading things as townslips when they're not more often than not causes a loss.

Those 2 are the only options. There is no way scum would miss out on a little detail concerning the wonder that is reserved for them, not even after reading for 10 hours (since this would be the post they read first).

I dont buy that for a second. Either you really missed it and youre hard-town, or youre pretending to have missed it to appear as such.

Pretty Black and white in my opinion

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Are we talking to JaeReed or mastina right now, and does that player always talk like this?

Like, with this tone. Does it sound natural to someone who is familiar with the poster?

pedit: Spiffeh is mickey avatar right? Not sure, let me think about him. I think I saw that frogger push and thought it looked good but I wanted to find something for myself

[Vecna]

Spiffeh is my hidden lock for the scum thats going to be try-harding and be flawless on all his reasoning.

So much so to the extent that thats going to be his downfall (if scum).

My gut says there is a very reasonable chance spiffeh is scum.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

@Vecna stuff like this is what I have an issue with. It's not engaging on why the read is wrong but feels more like you want the slot ignored entirely by being considered incompetent or something.

Spoiler:

I didn't notice Vecna was the first one to say 5 either. To be fair, me, him, and Maria just finished a game together where there were 20+ players and we were on a scum team of 5.

9=2
12=3
16=4
20=5
24=6

Typical # of scum to balance a game of the given size. May vary.

And considering Undertale and theme game you

really

think this is valid?

FoS Vecna and PV.

~~Math

Its a theme-game where all players have equal opportunities at the same power-level. Why wouldnt a standard distribution be used?

If this is really the level of reads I can expect from you guys this game ill feel cheated after having to deal with the real deal last game.

Wait tf did they just agree to chill for now? Hot damn

Also DEO, now that I look at it, Fro99er is also defending Vecna, even explaining how he perceives vecna's points to Drixx. I don't have a problem w Fro99er doin this, but I'm wondering why you don't.

I'm focused on you and your hard defense, not just people townreading Vecna.

Titus, are you looking for people defending their scum-teammate, or scum just white-knighting?

If its the first, please use your energy more productive.

Wait tf did they just agree to chill for now? Hot damn

Also DEO, now that I look at it, Fro99er is also defending Vecna, even explaining how he perceives vecna's points to Drixx. I don't have a problem w Fro99er doin this, but I'm wondering why you don't.

I'm focused on you and your hard defense, not just people townreading Vecna.

Titus, are you looking for people defending their scum-teammate, or scum just white-knighting?

If its the first, please use your energy more productive.

Why does that matter? Both are scum motivations. Why are you interrupting my attempts to get reads?

Im just trying to make sure that you dont operate based on false assumptions, but carry on

The only reason to pass on day chat would be because they hope something better will come along later. Day chat is like one of the main advantages scum have on this site (and the site statistics back it up). The idea that they would pass on it (remember: they can only build it today ... if they pass on it, then presumably it's gone forever {excepting if multiple wonders repeat the same effect, which would be lazy and I know Nahdia isn't}) just because Science lets them plan what buildings to try for at night ... is just plain absurd. Planning which buildings to take is like priority level negative (insert really large integer) compared to what scum can use day chat to coordinate. The whole argument is so over the top ridiculous that I'm seriously wondering if Vecna is just trolling me at this point.

I agree daychat is very powerful, which was my main concern for not wanting science in the first place.

I think what Vecna is saying is that if science is chosen, then they can pass on choosing day chat to try to block off as many of the other D1 wonders that only town can grab, thereby limiting town's power a bit more. They can coordinate at night, knowing they get to choose that night from D1 wonders also with knowledge of what D2 wonders are. So it's not about waiting for powers as much as limiting town's powers on D1.

I'm not sure if that's enough of an argument to make me want to choose none, because I also buy your science argument. I think titus and spiffeh are town. I thought you were town on your first post, but then the back and forth with you and Vecna I have no idea. I've also never seen scum!drixx play. I'm town and if you, titus, spiffeh, ABR are town, we're going to win this. It'll be like mafiaception, but with titus on our side.

Scum w/ Vecna likely found.

Daychat and science are not related. Daychat is powerful in its own right. In fact daychat and science together leads for more ways for scum to possibly slip. And there is very little chance scum pass on daychat. If they do they are idiots and will summarily be lynched anyway. In other words not worried about a scum no daychat world. Because Titus and I will catch them.

~~Math

After these last posts from your head my faith in that is slowly dissipating.

I was reading them hold on now I think the only one of those I would call a shade throw was the one where I said do I have to say you have a big dick to get a townread because whenever someone strokes your ego you seem to tr them (drixx for one) I don't see how you call my Leon things shade when one was making a statement and the other was a fact, How is a naked vote on Uzi and a vote on Max Shade?
~Maria

A shade is any comment that puts a player in a negative light, doubly so when unwarranted. You've been trying to get me, Spiffeh, Drixx, Creature and A and N to turn on each other for awhile now.

Say, what's your Yuki read?

How is this shading any different from poking people to see how they respond? Why do you always make it out to be such a bad thing?

Like, 50% of your posts or so has been calling people out on shading other people. You dont really believe only scum do that, do you?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Got like Vecna, AnN, Drixx TRs so far. It was hard to digest much of anything because I only read and didn't take it in as it happened. Off work tomorrow though so I'm hopeful for tomorrow

Same tbh, it's why I'm trying to engage despite feeling fried, basically.

What's your take on Spiffeh? Specifically his push against a resolution due to experiences from a past game, the reaction to someone pointing out what looked like Frogger buddying him, and Frogger's push on him for joining the Maxous wagon?

So reading Spiffeh's ISO real quick to familiarize there. Past game experiences are a valid concern when deciding on the resolution imo, especially when other players from those previous games are also in this one. Dont see where he reacts to someone pointing out frogger buddying him, sorry I'm danked out rn, I'm trying. and yeah again the frogger push I think is dece

[Vecna]

So you take issue with me defending myself and my strongest townread (LUV)? And letting them know theyre wrong about both?

Because thats what all those posts are except for the last one.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Got like Vecna, AnN, Drixx TRs so far. It was hard to digest much of anything because I only read and didn't take it in as it happened. Off work tomorrow though so I'm hopeful for tomorrow

Same tbh, it's why I'm trying to engage despite feeling fried, basically.

What's your take on Spiffeh? Specifically his push against a resolution due to experiences from a past game, the reaction to someone pointing out what looked like Frogger buddying him, and Frogger's push on him for joining the Maxous wagon?

So reading Spiffeh's ISO real quick to familiarize there. Past game experiences are a valid concern when deciding on the resolution imo, especially when other players from those previous games are also in this one. Dont see where he reacts to someone pointing out frogger buddying him, sorry I'm danked out rn, I'm trying. and yeah again the frogger push I think is dece

Oh but you meant what do I think of spiffeh's reaction to Frogger's push on Spiffeh for Spiffeh joing the Maxous wagon. Okay, let me answer the right question...

uhh 846 is town I'm pretty sure
for reference:

Froggy

I explained why I'm scum reading Maxous now. The post you quoted was in reference to what Max contributed during the draft phase.

Also, I'm not going to drop a scum read because someone I'm suspicious of is also on the wagon. I'm not aiming to catch the whole scum team Day 1 and am well aware at how impossible that would be.

Even then, you've done a few things that make me uncertain so I haven't yet cemented a read on you. So I don't get why you expect me to be discouraged from voting Max.

[Vecna]

And I did engage several times, in great detail, why I believe the read on LUV is wrong.

Youre awarded 1 suspicion point.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Vecna what you think about 846?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Are we talking to JaeReed or mastina right now, and does that player always talk like this?

Like, with this tone. Does it sound natural to someone who is familiar with the poster?

pedit: Spiffeh is mickey avatar right? Not sure, let me think about him. I think I saw that frogger push and thought it looked good but I wanted to find something for myself

JaeReed. This is my game to try to improve with teaching behind the scenes.

By the time I finished reading up it was late for US time I think tho. I don't know if she's read up on the thread or not, but basically she's not going to be giving me any reads or anything, but just guiding me. So like "given this, what do you think?" type stuff, and "you see that, now ask yourself this".

And no, this tone shouldn't be normal for me I'd think? I'm pretty out of it rn and just trying to get engaged since my memory works better on things I was actually here for.

Yeah he's the mickey avatar.

[Vecna]

Get some sleep.

combined with the wonder-thing youre now at 2 suspicion points.

My threshold for death will be around 3-4.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

So you take issue with me defending myself and my strongest townread (LUV)? And letting them know theyre wrong about both?

Because thats what all those posts are except for the last one.

No, not quite. I take issue with the way it was done.

I think I mentioned before that I actually liked the fact that you were willing to risk your own neck for your tr on luv.

[Vecna]

Vecna what you think about 846?

Is there an easy to way instantly navigate to post numbers, if people dont make links of them?

Because making links of them is so convenient when asking questions like this, so I dont have to go play "guess the page" to find the post.

[Vecna]

So you take issue with me defending myself and my strongest townread (LUV)? And letting them know theyre wrong about both?

Because thats what all those posts are except for the last one.

No, not quite. I take issue with the way it was done.

I think I mentioned before that I actually liked the fact that you were willing to risk your own neck for your tr on luv.

I feel my way of dealing with that issue was completely justified, but to each his own I guess.

And I feel completely fine discrediting a read if I strongly feel, or know for a fact, that its wrong.

Doesnt mean im discrediting all of their reads or trying to make them look incompetent (allthough granted, that one post directed at mathblade could be interpreted that way if taken out of context).

If their slot brings reads I agree with, or reads I hadnt considered with proper reasoning, ill be more than glad to bandwagon it since I do know what Titus is capable off.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

You're grinding my gears with this (I quoted it for reference on this page so I thought you'd see it) but I want to know so here:

846

[Vecna]

Froggy

I explained why I'm scum reading Maxous now. The post you quoted was in reference to what Max contributed during the draft phase.

Also, I'm not going to drop a scum read because someone I'm suspicious of is also on the wagon. I'm not aiming to catch the whole scum team Day 1 and am well aware at how impossible that would be.

Even then, you've done a few things that make me uncertain so I haven't yet cemented a read on you. So I don't get why you expect me to be discouraged from voting Max.

Seems completely reasonable to me?

Either way, if spiffeh is scum he's only going to hang due to a guilty or a well thought-out later-game case is my assumption.

[Vecna]

You're grinding my gears with this (I quoted it for reference on this page so I thought you'd see it) but I want to know so here:

846

I allready went to look for it, sorry didnt notice u did quote it before.

My bad

[ssbm_Kyouko]

ok good. I don't think he's scum but thought you were implying he was so I wanted you to see that post