Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[davesaz]

My son had an orchestra concert and we went out to dinner after -- and I fell asleep at the computer after getting home. 8 hours and ~15-20 pages later...

New thing to research -- what was the VC when Vecna went nuts? Was there an apparently unstoppable wagon build in progress that disagreed with what Vecna had been pushing before that point? That would be the only possible scum motivation, and a heck of a gamble if scum. I can see town doing it for a very good reason, which I won't go into yet...

My ABR townread is rescinded. What initially looked like righteous indignation at a vendetta now reeks of trying to shake loose of being caught for the wrong reason. The timing (just as a L-1 was reached and a town replacement appeared) and trajectory (saying practically nothing of value before that) does not look town at all.

I continue to think Creature could be scum trying to act town, but it might just be a playstyle thing. I'm willing to listen to townreads for now.
UNVOTE:

pedit: sleep it off please. I don't mean that to be preachy or anything, just worried that clouded mind -> actions you'll regret later.

[Spiffeh]

If beeboy flips town I'll apologize and be less douchey

probably

maybe

[Fro99er]

I keep trying to find common ground but it seems nobody is willing to work together which is the hallmark of a failed town.

[Fro99er]

If beeboy flips town I'll apologize and be less douchey

probably

maybe

You really want me to replace out, don't you

[beeboy]

I can probably post before tomorrow at 2 but I am going to prod dodge anyway!

[davesaz]

And another pagetop without even trying.

I think it's too early to brand a stormy section of a day as a failed town. Odds are there will be several town whose reads are outside the majority, we can't all be right. Look for the ones who deliberately muddy things.

Pedit @ Fro99er -- no, don't. I think you're more likely to be on track than not, and we need there to be multiple people willing to advocate a point of view.

[Fro99er]

UNVOTE:

[davesaz]

I can probably post before tomorrow at 2 but I am going to prod dodge anyway!

Anything to say on game state? You should be aware that we have a noose sized for you...

[The DEO]

Gagging me is not a solution.
You did that in Thing Mafia and I replaced out due to absolute toxicity on Skype for suspecting Magna scum and ruining your town block.

Suggesting people you disagree with not post is not a solution.
Being convincing on reads and laying cards on the table is a solution.

Everyone here is so busy calling each other idiots and suggesting they replace out that a townblock IMHO is not effective here.
There are other ways to play mafia and lynch scum other than a town block where people are inherently excluded for a dissonant voice.

Instead people talk about their reads and make cases. A town block only works if it is right. Stop trying so damn hard to make one and just try to lynch scum and see what people's reactions are and then find the team based on that.

Mafia is scum hunting not a popularity contest.
Sleep for me sounds fun then being told I have to agree with Titus and Frogger to post.

~~Math

[Spiffeh]

If beeboy flips town I'll apologize and be less douchey

probably

maybe

You really want me to replace out, don't you

No that's not at all what I meant by that

[Akane and Nebby]

Poor Mathblade ;~;
-Nebby

[davesaz]

I'm actually perfectly fine with seeing both Titus and MathBlade post, even if they don't agree.
I have read Titus correctly at least the most recent 3 games (both alignments included in sample), and Math at least a couple recent times.
If the independent reads on them line up then my read of the hydra is probably right, and it's easy enough to filter the slot's reads for accuracy since I have a track record for doing that with both of them too.

[Nero Cain]

Mafia is scum hunting not a popularity contest.

This is true in theory. In reality MS is fucking high school with trolls.

[Vecna]

I literally don't even have anywhere to vent except mafia scum dot net

Casino took you I presume?

[Vecna]

Replace out

Requesting the gm to ignore this untill the slot is sobered up

[Vecna]

My son had an orchestra concert and we went out to dinner after -- and I fell asleep at the computer after getting home. 8 hours and ~15-20 pages later...

New thing to research -- what was the VC when Vecna went nuts? Was there an apparently unstoppable wagon build in progress that disagreed with what Vecna had been pushing before that point? That would be the only possible scum motivation, and a heck of a gamble if scum. I can see town doing it for a very good reason, which I won't go into yet...

My ABR townread is rescinded. What initially looked like righteous indignation at a vendetta now reeks of trying to shake loose of being caught for the wrong reason. The timing (just as a L-1 was reached and a town replacement appeared) and trajectory (saying practically nothing of value before that) does not look town at all.

I continue to think Creature could be scum trying to act town, but it might just be a playstyle thing. I'm willing to listen to townreads for now.
UNVOTE:

pedit: sleep it off please. I don't mean that to be preachy or anything, just worried that clouded mind -> actions you'll regret later.

The wagon was heading towards Beeboy. Ive indicated willingness to vote this slot (and I shall if ABR fails) - BUT I feel we have a way way stronger likelyhood of getting scum by lynching ABR.

I know people dont like to be forced to vote a certain way, or be forced to think about a certain issue - But I fell it had to happen.

And anyone that thinks im scum for it; riddle me this (especially MariaR and Gerry) - Would I ever out myself as scum just to save a teammate? Would I ever put my ass on the line as scum for anyone? Or is my ego too big and do I think if anyone's going to win it for a scumteam it would be scumvecna? Or would I rather happily bus them instead to further my own goals?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ABR has been lurking with only random comments untill last night. UNTILL TITUS KEPT CALLING OUT THAT SHE WANTS ABR LYNCHED.

Then within a short timeframe:
- the slot pretends to want to be replaced
-starts attacking Titus (which I know from personal experience is the easiest way to turn off her rational side and start a pissing contest that is BAD for town)
-starts appealing to everyone in Titus' townblock and influence their vote
-Notices people are getting suspicion so wants to push for Beeboy.
-After I throw down the gauntless, he uses FROGGER's assumption that im scum to agree to a bandwagon - directly trying to divert blame to frogger because he knows ill flip town
-Lies about me not being his townread just before
-Doesnt think about any town-sided reasoning for what im doing, but just claims to sheep Frogger
-Then realizes even if he wins the 1v1 with me, he'll die tomorrow
-Switches back to Beeboy

This is manipulative. There is ZERO townreasoning I can think of for any of this (if im wrong, please -do- enlighten me.

Maybe I shouldve approached this in a different way, but ive noticed several times before in the posting frenzy that 50% of the posts get ignored. Ive literally asked 15-20 questions last night that went unanswered. This was the way to bring attention to my issue.

Math, I directly appeal to you as well. You know that the best way to derail Titus is by personal attacks and by discrediting her work/reads/results. She just goes off on you, and all town will be "silly TvT battle". Ive done it before, its super effective as scum.

ABR - NEEDS - ROPE

[Vecna]

I keep trying to find common ground but it seems nobody is willing to work together which is the hallmark of a failed town.

You may scumread me due to how I handled things, but if you want me to stop this and vote Beeboy I will. But you have to promise me to strongly look into ABR if Beeboy does flip town tomorrow, and read into my reasoning.

I did this to remove the interfering influence from town. You may not see it, but I know I would handle this situation the exact same way as ABR has been doing if I was scum. Im sorry if I made things worse, but people needed to be made aware.

[Creature]

ABR or beeboy need rope

Caesar's literally asking for rope

davesaz also needs rope

[Creature]

Did scum daykill me and I didn't notice?

[Vecna]

ABR or beeboy need rope

Caesar's literally asking for rope

davesaz also needs rope

Id be very surprised if Davesaz is scum here

[Creature]

Haven't you played PYP?

[Vecna]

I think....you know that I have

[Fro99er]

I don't scumread Vecna at all.

VOTE: Vecna

Why did you turn around on Vecna?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I don't scumread Vecna at all.

VOTE: Vecna

Why did you turn around on Vecna?

I didn't turn around. My reads have been the same since the start of the game.

[Fro99er]

Oh.

Can you remind me why you voted him?