Civilization Mafia: Barbarian Encampment

[JaeReed]

173 pages is a relatively long large theme day 1... for a 14 day phase. this table managed it in 5 days.

10 VC's per day. dfdxgfhfcjsfzrrggg

I was starting to think we'd end up as one of the top games for number of posts D1

[Elbirn]

Oh, also, not to gush like a schoolgirl or anything but uhm

You know I don't really like playing scum usually? I was hoping to roll town in this game especially, town being my favorite alignment and civ being my favorite game

But then I saw my scum team and I was like daammmmnnnnnnnn

I get to be scum with drixx, who I have beaucoup respect for, Jae who I played a few games ago is good person, mastina who is legend, Aeronaut who is a p cool guy who doesn't afraid of anything, with Pine who's scumgame I give props to since he just fooled me good in my last game, and then hi kyouko you're gr8 too

Basically I'm going to shamelessly be scumteam cheerleader and youre all going to accept my love dammit.



Jae I see you you got your own special post coming your way

[Elbirn]

ELBIRN WHAT DID YOU WANT FROM MEEEEE Q_____Q

I didn't want to scumread you but the only thing I could think of to engage you on was the fact that you were pushing for my lynch then also suggested Vecna as scum, and I felt like that might put you in a bad light so I really really didn't want to do that.

So here's the thing about my scumgame, I'm literally insane and give absolutely zero fucks. I had no master plan. I just saw an angle I could push and I did so. Then afterwards I made up a reason for doing it.

The thing is this: vecna was pushing on you, then hopped off to vote for yuri for something tangentially related to you. It might not have been that cut and dry and I might get verbally shit on for suggesting that so simply, but the end result is that vecna hopped off scum to vote town; meanwhile I was pushing that scum and pushing him to vote for said scum and he wouldn't.

I should have put more effort into this But I think the final result is we can mislynch vecna based on his actions re: you and yuri. Maybe uzi too because he did the same stupid shit, "hurr notice is confirmed scum but he's not a viable wagon not even if elbirn starts a wagon there"

The only problem is I wasn't able to be present enough to bus you hard enough. I needed to be not too weenie, not too forceful that it goes through: juuust right to make everyone else look bad and keep you alive.

You did good by attacking vecna a bit but I should have followed up on him and just didn't have the opportunity. I'm legitimately busy all the time and this noise is just as bad for me as it is for town

[JaeReed]

mastina's technically not playing, just coaching me from the background. I did link her to here though. She hasn't read up since she had stuff to do (including that lylo w/ drixx).

Elbirn <3 ok thanks, I probably should have made that post questioning why you were scumreading vecna while trying to lynch me, then. I was too scared of accidentally turning anything into a bus, and I knew I had to respond to you so I went for the angle that you were grudge voting me because I know a lot of people have that view when they're town and there's been shit between them in past games. I don't think that was the smartest move but I didn't want to flat ignore you. On that note, it looks really bad that I haven't made further follow up on Kyouko yet. I'm hoping to pass that as having been drowned out by the pace of the thread, but I know I can't keep ignoring the slot forever. Any ideas?

Also I too was really hoping to roll town because I actually know my town game a little better and what I need help with fixing there, whereas my scum game is so new that I can't pinpoint anything in particular other than "I don't really know what I'm doing". The last time I rolled scum the advice I got was to forget I was scum which worked out well enough but mastina said not to play it that way so I'm trying to hard reset. Super glad to have this team because even if I botch it ultimately I think I can learn a lot here

[JaeReed]

I was also trying to tie myself more heavily to Yuri. I'm not sure if I succeeded in that or ultimately am going to make them look like town if I ever flip tbh. I deliberately avoided the wagon using the excuse about my scumread on vecna for that reason, and made the call I did when it looked like they were going to be the lynch (where Creature unvoted) for that reason also. It might only be useful if I flip before Yuri though.

[Elbirn]

Thoughts:

Titus is incredibly easy for me/drixx to pocket, manipulate, and let her flip shit and push. Titus/math dissonance is incredibly disruptive to town, and they even know it and they're unable to stop it.

Spiffeh jives with the way my town-doublethink is thinking so I want to sheep and support him.

Actually all of the high volume posters in general are making unhelpful noise and are all on the wrong track. We probably shouldn't shoot in there?

Who do you guys want dead?

[Elbirn]

*flip shit and push town

Typo. Yeah I won't push titus, she's someone to bring to Lylo if she's gonna town beard me/drixx.

OH! I forgot to mention how fucking hard I'm going to buddy a&n this game. That's gonna happen. It's already happening. They are totally pocketed rn.

[JaeReed]

Yeah I want to buddy Alisae but they're paranoid of me for meta reasons and outside game reasons. I can flip my shit on them if they push the meta readslist thing in the same way I got salty af in a hydra game with them which should bring that back around but I think I need to link at least Shadowrun for that.

mastina gave me a thing of who should be early nightkills. I'll grab it.

[Drixx]

Don't get too sure that you've got Titus pocketed. She can and will hold doubt for a LONG time while treating you like she trusts you.

I was

REALLY

hoping to get the Pyramids and then bring up the idea of you guys killing me because I CAN make myself seem so town it hurts, at will. That was blown by someone pointing it out, but I still am confident I could have gained trust and even would have put myself forward to be lynched in the late mid-game since I only need my engagement to help town win.

I'm actually shocked I rolled scum twice in close proximity.

@Jae - Please ask Mastina to play actively. I would count it my great misfortune to have rolled scum with her and NOT get the chance to learn from it. I'm sure she's as exhausted as I am from that LYLO. I poured everything I had into that, and I'm not really upset about the loss. I thought I was endgamed like 2 months ago so even getting to the point where if either of them had voted no lynch we would have brought in a scum victory ... that was an accomplishment.

[Drixx]

If ABR keeps being disruptive he can stay around for awhile. PV and ABR and Spiffeh are all deceptively good town. They can appear to be completely wrong and a huge hindrance and then in a moment flip a switch and nail you to the wall.

[Drixx]

I'm going to be assigned a huge burden of proficiency by basically everyone on the player list. As a result, I'm going to be spending most of this night phase catching up and making notes so I can get out ahead of any "why isn't Drixx doing his thing?" crap when the day starts.

Just to make it a little harder on me, Mina forgot that I like to split up my newbie games I'm modding a bit and gave me back to back ones, and then accidentally put me in to IC the next 3 games after that, so I've got some time sink there that's going to be pretty significant as those games all spin up.

I'm going to count on you guys to push me if I'm slacking. This is like an all-star scum team. Let's roll this town up and leave them wondering what hit them.

[mastina]

Hi. Just dropping this here.

Akane and Nebby (Alisae & Malachite)
^Both heads are mislynch bait. I would avoid trying to push them, as they are KNOWN mislynch bait. Quite the opposite, buddy and defend them, because both are vulnerable to being pocketed.

Fro99er
^Frogger isn't the best of scumhunters, and he's not the best of charismatic players, but he's a reasonable balance of the two. The main threat he presents is that he can easily synchronize with town players, forming a solid townbloc. For that reason, try to work with him and bounce ideas off of him. Get him on your good side, and we can keep him around. Get on his bad side, and he needs to die.

Nero Cain
^While Nero sucks at charisma, and his ego leads to bad arrogance and can lead him down the wrong path, he WILL catch scum sooner rather than later. In this playerlist, he's probably either the N1 or N2 kill. Don't let him go further than that. Especially not if he's allowed to get a wonder! Buddying him early might get you scumread, but it's a great way to test the waters on him, to see what he's thinking and to evaluate just how much of a threat he is, so it might be worth the risk.

Yuri
^I know nothing of Yuri, so Yuri's a bit of a blind spot for me. If you know anything about Yuri, you fill in the gaps and act appropriately.

beeboy
^beeboy when in the element is a good player, but lately, beeboy seems to, by and large, be "out" of games. This might make beeboy a viable mislynch. Bring up BoP arguments: "the beeboy I know is better than this". In fact, even if beeboy towns it up, an early push there by seeing beeboy as scummy could earn you cheap towncred. But if you DO see signs of beeboy towning it up, reverse the read into a townread.

The DEO (Titus & Mathblade)
^While Titus/Mathblade when wrong make great assets for the scum, when right, they make great assets for the town. They're either the N1 or N2 nightkill this game as a result. We want them alive long enough where they cause controversy in the town. We want them alive long enough where they divide the town. We want them alive long enough where their natural stubbornness causes an anti-town element in the game...and then we want them dead before they have a chance to reverse that around.

Ask lots of questions to them, and answer any question they have of you immediately and promptly. While ignoring them can build up frustration, it can also build up a scumread. My approach here would be to not immediately townread or scumread them, but to slowly prod and poke about them and form a townread gradually. Even if they take heat and appear as a mislynch, we don't want to push them.

Leonshade
^Honestly I don't really know much about him, either. From what I've seen, a decent player, but not remarkable. Many players in this game just played with Leonshade in WWE Smackdown, so they might be biased in their reads thanks to that. You may be able to exploit that for a mislynch, but pay attention; it might also turn out that Leonshade's towngame is starkly different from his scumgame that Leon becomes a hard townread. Listen to what others say, and apply the appropriate read. If you can, mislynch him. If you can't, kill the players townreading him until you can.

Creature
^Mislynch bait. Can sometimes be accurate in reads, but is abysmal at explaining them. Don't push Creature at all. Let the town do that. Creature isn't a threat for the most part, so our attention is best played elsewhere.

Lil Uzi Vert
^Mislynch bait. Avoid pushing like the plague. Buddy LUV, and buddy LUV hard. Defend LUV from heat. Point out anything which looks even remotely town. LUV is not only a player we want alive, but also someone relatively easy to pocket.

Vecna
^Another player I lack the knowledge of.

ooba
^A player who gets strong the later into the game he lives. I'd rate his strength as mediocre-high. In this playerlist, that probably makes him around a N4 nightkill. He's not someone you want to try and mislynch. He IS someone you want to engage with, to prod at. If he doesn't respond, you might even want to scumread him. But don't let him be your main push.

Maxous
^Another mediocre-high player. Avoid trying to mislynch. Engage actively and consistently. If Maxous refuses to engage you, show frustration, maybe even a scumread. If Maxous does engage you, try to work with him, even townread him. He's another player who is good to try and get synergy with, but if he gets too good synergy with a pure town bloc, he might need to be killed.

PeregrineV
^A player with abysmal charisma and who is incredibly polarizing in games: half the time, he's mislynch bait; the other half of the time, he obvtowns himself to practically-conftown levels. While he can't convince players, his reads are pretty comparable to Nero Cain's accuracy wise. A good nightkill especially if you feel like laying low.

Sondam (MariaR & gerryoat)
^Fairly average players, not mislynch bait and yet not obvtown either. A good push for a lynch. Engage them, and point out scummy stuff they do, and why you think that they are scum this game.

Albert B. Rampage
^Triple-threat: he has good reads. He is good at getting people to follow his reads. He is good at obvtowning himself. ABR's main weakness as a player is that he can make the game incredibly toxic to play in. People HATE him. They hate engaging him. They hate his attitude. They hate everything he does. If signs of hatred are strong in the playerlist and he's the main contributor to this, keep him around until that's no longer the case. If the hatred is nonexistent, he's a top-priority nightkill. Maybe even N1 material. Probably higher than even Nero, honestly.

Spiffeh
^Spiffeh indicated he would be busy, so this will negatively impact his game. Normally, he'd be a good scumhunter with decent charisma, who is also decent at making himself obvtown. If he fails to deliver in any of these aspects, it could be worth pressing him for a lynch. When doing so, you can acknowledge that, yes, he is busy, but you don't think his business justifies his weak play this game, and that it looks like scum. This makes him a viable mislynch if people are receptive to this and agree.
Otherwise, if they disagree, Spiffeh needs to be a nightkill at some point.


I will update it when I can, but that's what I handed Jae at the beginning of the game.
More thoughts after I read, since I'm going to be at least partially weighing in on the nightplay as to better guide Jae.

[JaeReed]

Ok so, this was just mastina's take based off the playerlist alone.

Fro99er - main threat in synchronizing with other town and forming a solid townbloc. If on good side, keep him around, if on his bad side he needs to die.
Nero Cain - In this playerlist probably either the N1 or N2 kill. Don't let him go further, especially not if he can get a wonder.
The DEO (Titus & Mathblade) - Either the N1 or N2 nightkill.
Maxous - if he gets too good synergy with a pure town bloc, he might need to be killed.
PeregrineV - A good nightkill especially if you feel like laying low.
Albert B. Rampage - Triple threat, good reads, good at pushing them, good at obvtowning. If people like him he's a top priority nightkill, probably higher priority than Nero, if people don't, keep him around until it's no longer the case.
Spiffeh - If people are receptive to a mislynch then push it otherwise he needs to be nightkilled at some point.

She had a lot more to say but I cut it down to the basics here. Obviously ooba was replaced but he was on the list for around N4. Not sure of opinions on dave.

pedit - DAMN IT MASTINA I WAS DOING THE THING AND YOU JUST C/P'ED THE WALL Q___Q

[mastina]

(Disclaimer: I haven't actually read the game yet because I've been too busy. I also haven't updated the above with the new players, since I saw davesaz at the very least as a new addition. I ALSO also haven't really given advice about each other, which I probably should do. So, the above might not accurately reflect the gamestate; I need to actually do my homework, but I figured I'd drop it there at the very least.)

[mastina]

So, for the moment: you can basically go with your own instincts right now, because at the moment I have nothing to add. I WILL have something to add after I actually have read the game and form some better thoughts of our scumteam's situation, but this is what I have right here, right now.

[Pine]

Mastina, I love it when you and I are on the same page!

I was going to recommend Nero for our N1 kill. DEO has a great chance to get pocketed, especially with their hydra dissonance. ABR's toxic attitude is likely to get him lynched.

Also on my radar to kill are Maxous and Fro99er. Fro99er is playing badly, but he's playing so FUCKING LOUDLY that anything he says is getting de facto argument from repetition. It will be hard to control anything with this loose cannon flying around, and if he focuses in on one of us, probably at random but also because we slighted him, he could be dangerous.

Nero or Fro99er.

[JaeReed]

@Jae - Please ask Mastina to play actively. I would count it my great misfortune to have rolled scum with her and NOT get the chance to learn from it. I'm sure she's as exhausted as I am from that LYLO. I poured everything I had into that, and I'm not really upset about the loss. I thought I was endgamed like 2 months ago so even getting to the point where if either of them had voted no lynch we would have brought in a scum victory ... that was an accomplishment.

The part of mastina not playing was agreed on before the hydra was made, I don't think she has the time to play. That aside, I really want to learn and better my play, and I feel that mastina actually playing here would just have me rely on her too much, which is something I really don't want to do. This would be true if I were town as well. I don't want to be carried by my hydra partner, but I do want to learn.

I'm sorry, I know this isn't the answer you were hoping for. I know my scumgame leaves a lot to be desired, and I'd really appreciate the help of everyone here with feedback on that if there's anything I could be doing better, not just my hydra coach. Thank you, sorry again.

[mastina]

And, yeah. I will contribute to night action decision--and only night action decision. Or give suggestions on avoiding any hilariously bad ideas when it comes to wonder building. (But that's an extension of the night actions, really.) So I will help you select optimal plays with what you have. I can maybe once or twice 'accidentally' post in-game-thread with a coaching suggestion that is really really town if Jae needs a bailout, but even that's pushing it. I can give you advice during the night, like I am doing right now. I am going to continue coaching Jae actively during the day. Maybe in here, maybe in our hydra PT, wherever I feel I need to give the advice to them. But that's about as far as I'm going. This is Jae's game, basically. As much as I love Civilization and would love to be a part of the game, this is JaeReed's game to grow as a scum player.

I can help JaeReed grow by giving tips for nightkills, like I intend to do tonight.
I can help JaeReed grow by giving tips to Jae during the day.

I cannot help JaeReed grow by being an active force in the game.
So for emphasis, this is JaeReed's game unless they absolutely beg me to have it not be (and I'm hoping it doesn't come to that), meaning that, yes. For the most part, I will be in the background, just advising, and nothing more. This isn't my scumteam; it's Pine's, it's Drixx's, and with luck, it'll soon be JaeReed's! So continue to have fun and continue to strategize; I will give you what I can, but nothing more than that.

[Drixx]

Even if she just coaches in here, that would be invaluable to the team. I wasn't trying to say anything about you when making that request. I was just genuinely excited to finally roll scum with Mastina.

P-Edit: I was afraid you were going to say that. Playing scum is such a sink. I'm going to be exhausted after this game. Back to back monstrously heavy commitment scum games. Wheeee!

[mastina]

I'm sure she's as exhausted as I am from that LYLO.

Preeeetty much.
Family night on Friday, staff meeting on Sunday, work today, and the entire time, in addition to games, I've got modding responsibilities, which...are less than pleasant at the moment. (Doesn't help that I got the idea for a

really

interesting game that I REALLY want to run and have been trying to write down the ideas there and lock the everything down there so that it becomes as awesome as it currently is in my head. Putting time into that is taking time out of this game.)

I poured everything I had into that, and I'm not really upset about the loss.

If it makes you feel better, I poured everything I had (which I felt wasn't nearly enough) into it and I'm incredibly upset about the WIN. (That ending was

not

how I wanted to win that game. I've never felt so shitty for winning a game as town. As scum, yeah, I can feel shitty all the time for winning, but as town, never like this.) But that's probably something best discussed in THAT thread rather than in this one.

[mastina]

And, since we have daychat here, if you specifically ask for advice in here, I can probably give you some general pointers even if I haven't read the thread--but I'm not going to do so by default, since it'll exhaust myself way too fast. Basically, don't expect me to actively read your plays and critique what you're doing (though I'd encourage JaeReed to do this and give tips to their team whenever they can!), but if you specifically ask for some feedback in here, I can reply fairly quickly with no context, and/or read the section of the game in question to have some idea of the context in a short amount of time to give a more precise/detailed answer.

I don't think that you'll really need me that much, though. While there were a few votes on scum here and there, and there are a few scumreads, for the most part, the town is very visibly...not looking to be on the right track from what little of the game I have seen. I saw basically nobody whose reads were actually a current threat. Obviously some which would be a threat eventually, but none who are an immediate danger with their accuracy.

Given that environment, unless I see something telling me otherwise, killing a "power player" is the best strategy: someone who we can remove the voice of BEFORE they become problematic.

[Drixx]

Agreed on that front.

I'd kind of like to leave the Titus/Math hydra in place. Right now they're creating lots of cover, and plus if I can actually pocket both of them successfully, then I can subvert town synergy without appearing to do so.

[Elbirn]

Agreed on that front.

I'd kind of like to leave the Titus/Math hydra in place. Right now they're creating lots of cover, and plus if I can actually pocket both of them successfully, then I can subvert town synergy without appearing to do so.

Here here.

The way things are going I'm feeling like titusblade is someone I'd bring to lylo, even. Their dissonance makes them completely impotent and I'd actively harmful to town. Scum 101, divide town. Mama titus would say the same thing.

Furthermore, they're both actively townreading scum and scumreading town. Like almost exclusively. Math's tunnel vision scumteam is like all the active townies. Titus reads are all wrong, and hell at one point she suggested there'd be a bucket of scum who voted for no resolution: these 11 people are *entirely town except for me*. Imagine having 10 titus approved mislynches, it's glorious.

I'll admit that she probably scumreads me lowkey, actually, come to think of it, but fuckit she's still more detriment to this town than help.

Conclusion: I respectfully disagree with mastina suggesting that titus go night 1/night 2. Let her mislynch town and rip the game apart.

[Elbirn]

I think we need to kill mid level players. The actives are all on the wrong track and dividing themselves. The lurkers provide cover. Find an in-betweener. Pv, maxous, Leon seem to fit this category.

[mastina]

Of those, PV/Maxous would be good.