Timeshift Mafia III [Game Over]

[Ramcius]

meta, he always fakeclaim early, independent of alignment, i'm surprised he didn't changed claim yet

That's not why James is being considered. Nothing PL about it. And as committed as James is towards Comm I hardly think he's changing anything.

I know why he considered, and i saw him in action before, for me it's PL, and i want rather someone else, but if majority goes for James i'm not standing in their way

[Vifam]

There is a guilty result this isn't a fucking policy lynch this is to directly progress the game and potentially catch scum for fucking once

[Vifam]

Jesus christ man

[Ramcius]

Is it possible you are shooting Fitz tonight with delayed action?

Maybe. Maybe not. You see, THERE IS A REDIRECTOR, so my shot will be redirected anyway, and it's either Comm or myself dying for it with the other dying from a direct Mafia shot. If you jail me the shot won't go but you may save us both (if they redirect my shot to Comm and decide to shoot me directly, that is). An exposed Vig with a redirector in play is HELL, so I'm not shooting anymore.

i'm asking about your submitted shot from last night, redirector can't mess with it, also, you claimed your other shot is not timeshifted, so redirector shouldn't mess with it either, since they have wait 1 more day for action to take effect, but i have no problem jail you upcoming night, if you want to

anyway, why change in your stance about Fitz? when i claimed, you was willing lynch him, nothing changed for him, Comm was redirected on you

[Ramcius]

There is a guilty result this isn't a fucking policy lynch this is to directly progress the game and potentially catch scum for fucking once

and you believe James claim? I don't, and i stated that dozen times on D1 and D2

i love that *potentially* btw

[Almost50]

missing NK don't ring you a bell?

It does, but I've explained it. Let me try again: I had a delayed shot. I have to assume Mafia also had at least one. Maybe they thought there was a SK delayed kill from N1 and decided to use their delayed kill on N2 so there would only be one flip on each of the opening 2 nights so as to confuse the Town. That's one possibility that comes to my mind as a common Mafia tactic in games with multiple killers.

I will only be concerned if there are no NKs on N3 as well for instance.

Btw, you also claimed prematurely and eventually forced my hand. You could've waited to see how the situation resolved w/o outing yourself. Scum now know who you are, who I am, in addition to their knowledge of both Comm and James (except the latter has dropped too fast from being a Town read to begin with). If I had kept quiet it would have resulted in Comm eating rope, and I would STILL have been killed anyway, so IIRC the only new piece of info they got out of this is your role. My claim didn't really matter bc they already knew.

[Vifam]

He's not

retracting

the claim

why

why why

are you assuming

he's faking it

[Vifam]

What is wrong with you man seriously

[Almost50]

@Comm/Nero:

What don't you two understand? I had picked for Comm to confirm someone w/o outing their role, and had that happened none of this confusion would have happened. Comm outing there to be a Vig in play all but told the Mafia what my role is. From then on, nothing really went right although nothing could have been helped either. A simple "fitz is Town" would have told the Mafia that I was Town which they already knew anyway. If Ram came out with his JK claim (bc he misunderstood, just like I did and also Tywin) we would have simply all been corrected, and then we would have had a standoff between the two claimed cope on a separate level, but maybe I'm too stuck at having been exposed prematurely so I could be biased here.

Anyway, what's done is done and we don't need to make it any worse. We lynch James and see how he flips. He claims he has no more Copping shots anyway, and -of the lot on the chop- he's the one looking the worst to me.

[Almost50]

only reason stopping me from James lynch - who is his teammates?

Why is that stopping you lol

nice to see you in so good mood, considering we still going dark, and James lynch will bring us back to D1-D2, when we had no good idea who scum is

VOTE: Wifam

VOTE: Ramcius

Ram is the redirector. Redirector knew fitz wasn't checked anyway, but faked JK and either made a mistake or deliberately pulled that ignorance card.

Inb4 anyone gets emotional, THINK IT OVER. Ram = redirector >> redirected Comm's action to me >> no matter who Comm checked he was ready to oppose him with a fake JK claim forcing Comm to expose the role of the one he got redirected to.

James is another Scumster with Ram (I had not seen this coming). That's two scums caught.

LYNCH RAM, and if he is NOT the REDIRECTOR, then LYNCH ME!

[D3f3nd3r]

Unofficially "poking" XnadrojX, SlySly, and Yume.

[Almost50]

I might be nuts but
I'm now considering the possibility that James and Ram are both scum
bad scum

No you're not. Help me lynch Ram today please. His flips exposes the plot and denies the Mafia from their biggest asset thus far.

[PeregrineV]

Unofficially "poking" XnadrojX, SlySly, and Yume.

Use the pointiest stick you have.

[Ramcius]

only reason stopping me from James lynch - who is his teammates?

Why is that stopping you lol

nice to see you in so good mood, considering we still going dark, and James lynch will bring us back to D1-D2, when we had no good idea who scum is

VOTE: Wifam

VOTE: Ramcius

Ram is the redirector. Redirector knew fitz wasn't checked anyway, but faked JK and either made a mistake or deliberately pulled that ignorance card.

Inb4 anyone gets emotional, THINK IT OVER. Ram = redirector >> redirected Comm's action to me >> no matter who Comm checked he was ready to oppose him with a fake JK claim forcing Comm to expose the role of the one he got redirected to.

James is another Scumster with Ram (I had not seen this coming). That's two scums caught.

LYNCH RAM, and if he is NOT the REDIRECTOR, then LYNCH ME!

let me ask, how i know who Comm checked to claim that person jk? Comm claimed AFTER me, your theory have really huge flaw there, but i would like to be lynched, atleast this game would end for me and i could laugh from you all in dead chat

[Almost50]

When James claimed early, who was THE ONE who came to defend his claim so relentlessly?? Ram

HOWEVER, Ram kept the door open and said it was a FAKE CLAIM. Right?

He still maintained it could be a FAKE CLAIM until the start of D3, and he acknowledged James fake claims as either alignment (so it's NAI at best) but he still won't lynch him based on "meta"?????

The way I see it is he helped James out on D1 while keeping the door wide open to deny any responsibility when/if James flipped by simply saying "I told you he fake claims as either alignment".

[Ramcius]

When James claimed early, who was THE ONE who came to defend his claim so relentlessly?? Ram

HOWEVER, Ram kept the door open and said it was a FAKE CLAIM. Right?

He still maintained it could be a FAKE CLAIM until the start of D3, and he acknowledged James fake claims as either alignment (so it's NAI at best) but he still won't lynch him based on "meta"?????

The way I see it is he helped James out on D1 while keeping the door wide open to deny any responsibility when/if James flipped by simply saying "I told you he fake claims as either alignment".

Well, LoX (Grey) defended any cop claim, James included, from any lynch, James was hard TR of Kyo (who flipped town), they don't count, cause they already flipped town?

[PeregrineV]

Would it be worth outing a vig to save Comm?

What makes you think they're not outed to the MAFIA yet? If nobody claims redirector then the VIG (if existent) should come forward because they will confirm 2 Town players. There is no use hiding if Mafia already know who the Vig is.

So we are clear, mafia said in their PT, "Let us redirect CommKnight the town Rolecop so that he investigates Zekromster instead of whoever he really wants to check. And while we are at it, let us kill HavingFitz."

Because then that would mean there is no kill and CommKnight, who checked whoever (in this case Fitz), would come back with an incorrect result of him being whatever role Zekromaster had.

Is this correct, according to you?

[PeregrineV]

Is there any scenario where Comm and James are both town PRs?

If the Mafia have both a redirector AND a Framer it may explain this, but I fail to understand why they would redirect the Role Cop's action to a TOWN player, unless they thought he was going to check one of them, AND THAT ONE IS JAMES!!!!

So, it is more likely to me that James fake claimed on D1 to out the cop, then they also got the watcher for free so they shot him first, then they somehow failed to shoot the Role Cop so they faked a guilty on him (because it's worth it).

In other words, I will only consider a Framer if someone claims a Town redirector. If not, then I think James is our lynch.

Why would mafia redirect a town rolecop when James claimed a town 1-shot cop? Why not redirect him to make whoever (Comm, in this case and given their day1 fighting) show up as guilty?

[Tywin Lannister]

Okay, so I'm at work and don't have the time to explain all of this in detail, but here's my thought:

1. Almost - Vig
2. Comm - Role Cop
3. Ram - Jailkeeper

These people are now unlynchible, and anyone claiming they are scum at this point isn't reading the game. TTTT says he thinks Ram is scum, but if he believes that, then how did Almost get his shot blocked?

Here's what does add up: Redirecter/bus driver switched Fitz with Almost. Comm's investigation went onto Almost. Ram's JK went into Almost. This explains why there was no vigi shot yesterday, although I don't like the 'I'm not shooting again' thing. Since there was no shot N1 and N2 got blocked, not shooting again gives me conspiracy theory doubts about both comm and Almost. Regardless, they're unlynchible right now.

Here's what does not add up: there was no Mafia NK.

Conspiracy theory logic would be that scum!Almost got blocked by Ram. He knew this was bad, so the only explanation was to claim 'vigilante.' To back that story up, his buddy scum!Comm would've claimed to get that result on a random player. If nobody counters, Almost is free to claim it. If they do, the 'Redirecter' story still works and a vigilante is outed. What they cannot explain away is no vigi shots period, and also no scum NK. They also cannot directly explain away a guilty result from James without saying 'Mafia framer.' Everyone following me?

So here's how we solve this. Either James is lynched or Comm is lynched. One flip should prove the other, assuming that both aren't great at scum theater by bussing each other into clearing the winner of the 1v1. Since that's hard to believe (and if true, we lost already), we have to assume that either flip will basically confirm the alignment of the other. If James flips town, Comm is for sure scum along with Almost. If James flips scum, then it clears those two into confirmed status. The same goes for Comm in this scenerio. Comm could be a scum role cop here who investigated Fitz/Almost. This would collaborate the vigi claim, but it doesn't mean he's town. Role cops are usually scum aligned from my experience, so again, comm may be scum here. The reason I doubt it is due to his play rather than any evidence proving otherwise.

So the only question remaining is do we lynch James or do we lynch Comm. I don't see a scenerio that gives more info. The only uneasy part is that there's still no Busdriver claim.

[PeregrineV]

redirector have 1 weak spot - where mafia kill? Or Mafia used not timeshifted kill N1 and then normal kill on N2 was delayed to N3?

If there really is a vig...where is the vig kill? Would a role cop include role modifiers?

Not sure, I'd assume so if it was part of the role name. But perhaps not. Depends on the mod's preference.

And also Fitz. When you ask which lynch would solve more problems. Well I confirmed there's a vig alive. So if James flips scum, we're good, if he flips town, well we didn't lose much and vig can kill me tonight.

Also I don't want Vig to out himself so he's not interfered with. But if a TOWN redirector/busdriver happened. They SHOULD out.

Actually, your lynch confirms James/Fitz.

No, it doesn't. My lynch only proves James. Something happened to me or Fitz because I got a vigilante role message. That doesn't mean he can't be VT. This logic is flawed PereV...

If you are Town, James is confirmed scum, and Fitz is confirmed Vig (unless their is a redirector). That is one caught scum.

If you are scum, James is town, and Fitz is just Fitz. That is one caught scum.

[Ramcius]

A50, you used delayed shot or not delayed last night? Cause Tywin theory confuses me a bit, i had impression you used delayed, so i couldn't block you due to your shot coming next night

[Ramcius]

If Comm flip red at this point, i see Fitz, A50 and Wifam on his team, too much "coincidences"

[PeregrineV]

Like he probably could have potentially won a straight 1v1 with James because James isn't widely townread at all, why would he complicate his life like this if he's scum

That happened day1 and neither was lynched.

[Vifam]

Yeah because we weren't gonna lynch two cop claims D1

[PeregrineV]

@Tywin:

First of all, you're making the same faulty assumption I made about the JK preventing their target from being investigated. It turns out that the current "standard" role is to only protect the target from kills + prevent them from taking any action (i.e. RB them).

However, EVEN IF the variant (Alien) was used it does NOT prevent the redirector from redirecting Comm's action to X (X being the Vig), as it has NOTHING to do with fitz himself.

Having established the "possibility" of there being a redirector AND a Vig would result in this very situation and give those exact results, let's now examine the situation:

1- If you were Scum and wanted to out a potential Cop early, what would you do?
2- Again, if you were Scum and felt like fake claiming, would you claim Cop or Role Cop? In other words, which would be easier to fake?

3- If you were crazy enough to fake claim a ROLE COP on DAY ONE no less, why would you ALSO fake a result at the nearest possible chance? I'd reckon claiming having been RB'd or forgetting to submit action, or even claiming your target got NK'd would have looked much more convenient and far less suspicious. No?

4- IF there ARE a redirector and a Vig, it's almost a given Scum already know who the Vig is and they will be shot dead tonight.

I think we have 2 possibilities here:

1- James faked his claim to out at least one investigative and he got TWO. The Watcher with non-delayed action was a priority to take out and Scum can't shoot every night or they need to use delayed and direct shots in an alternating way or whatever that has prevented them from shooting Comm dead on N2. They thus decided to sacrifice one of their own for the strongest TPR we have, Not a bad bargain if you look at it objectively.

2- The other possibility is Scum have BOTH a redirector and a Framer, and they used the former to redirect Comm's action to a random Townie just in case he checked one of them, and used the latter to frame Comm himself knowing James had checked him in precise. Why redirect Comm? Because if he claimed a guilty and got lynched that guilty will follow.

Now if Comm is not lynched Scum will have a slight problem deciding whether to shoot him or the Vig tonight, but I suspect it would be the Vig with Comm redirected again. Alternatively they can shoot the vig AND redirect his shot to Comm, which is why I called on him to hold hold his fire until we lynched the redirector.

Again I urge you to try and put yourself in both James' and Comm's shoes and imagine what you would/would not have done if you were Scum in either slot. James' play doesn't come from Scum unless they had an elaborate plan like the one I'm proposing as the first possibility, but Comm's play and string of actions/claims does NOT come from Scum at any level. Period!

OK.. I got one scenario where ALL three of then can be Scum together, You want to hear a Mathblade-class theory??

1. Crumb or claim cop.
2. Role cop
3. To rolefish the role and get it to claim.
4. Unless the doc protects them.


1. Perhaps town should not be so quick to claim when there is no benefit to town.
2. Framer? When was the last time it was used?