Open 678 - White Flag GAME OVER!

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

The best way to fight procrastination is to put it off until later.

Sixth Votecount

:

Riley Cake - 3 (-Grey-, Firebringer, Siblings Quarrel)

Siblings Quarrel - 1 (Pine)

Falco XV - 1 (Aristophanes)
Firebringer - 1 (Riley Cake)
BTD6_maker - 1 (Lil Uzi Vert)
Pine - 1 (mastina)
mastina - 1 (Transcend)


Not Voting - 4 (Falco XV, ThinkBig, BTD6_maker, tojam2)

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to lynch.

Day 1's deadline is Sunday, March 12th, @ 1:00 AM EST--(expired on 2017-03-12 01:00:00)

V/LA Notices/Mod Notes:

• Mastina is V/LA on weekends
  
• Fro99er is V/LA till Monday

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: BTD

How comesies? :O

I didn't like his entrance or his analysis of the Siblings wagon. Felt like posturing.

[Transcend]

Btd6 always makes those kind of intros tho, and believe me, i fosed him for the same thing.

[ThinkBig]

At work now and will be posting later tonight.

Btd6 always makes those kind of intros tho, and believe me, i fosed him for the same thing.

I never played with BTD6. Can you point me to some of his other games where he made a similar intro?

[Transcend]

Frozen Angel's M6 No Reveal

Mayfair Lobby

[Transcend]

Kmdnumbers' jungle mafia

It's incorrect for me to assume this is a town tell from him, but it's also incorrect to call it a scum tell as I've seen multiple instances of it from town!him

[BTD6_maker]

At work now and will be posting later tonight.

Btd6 always makes those kind of intros tho, and believe me, i fosed him for the same thing.

I never played with BTD6. Can you point me to some of his other games where he made a similar intro?

We have played before, if I remember correctly. You were in Code Geass for a rather brief amount of time.

Anyway, starting on the Siblings wagon.

The first vote was Grey. Grey had very little reasoning in his ISO, even after the vote, but kept it there for a while. I would normally call this slightly scummy but the vote was made very early in the game, so I would say this is an RVS vote and practically NAI.

Firebringer next.

[BTD6_maker]

Town legit does not say this.

VOTE: Siblings Quarrel

Yeah, thats bs. And you know it.

I am sorry grey, 1v1 later.

It is irrelevant whether Town would ever claim scum for a joke. It has happened before. That does not make "Town legit does not say this" something that is only said by scum. It may be wrong, but saying it is in no way AI.

wait was he l-1 lmfao

And you still put him at L-1...
Even tho he wasn't AT L-1...
VOTE: Trans
-Ali

power wagon this. power wagon this hard.

Again, you haven't given good reasons for power wagoning Siblings Quarrel. Alisae was scumreading Transcend for eagerness to bring an early game wagon to L-1. (As far as I have seen, it wasn't L-1, with Lil Uzi Vert, Pine, Siblings, and Transcend on the wagon, but that doesn't change my point). Can you explain why this was scummy?

Yeah, thats bs. And you know it.

I said that kind of stuff a lot in Spyro and I was scum and I somehow got away with it.
-Ali

your statement is too absolute for my liking.
the reason you can get away with doing it is if people know you do it as both alignments.

when I say "I am scum" it literally means nothing. Its just me bored trying to see how people react (and partly my shits and giggles). If town literally never did that, well scum would get lynched overtime they did it.

In that case, the logical pro-Town thing to do would be to not claim scum. It fails even as a reaction test if everyone knows it is a joke (and may respond with similar joke reactions). There is no point to doing it as Town if it means nothing.

Overall, this looks scummier than Grey's vote. I would class this as null-weak scum.

[-Grey-]

The first vote was Grey. Grey had very little reasoning in his ISO, even after the vote, but kept it there for a while. I would normally call this slightly scummy but the vote was made very early in the game, so I would say this is an RVS vote and practically NAI.

Practically?

I'm a cop!

VOTE: Frogisae

PRACTICALLY?

It's the

definition

of NAI!

[-Grey-]

381/2 is terribad.

[Pine]

I should be in bed (it's 2:15 AM, I get up at 6 AM for work), don't have time to read this game and even if I did I'm honestly not sure where my priority game-wise would be but: as panicked as I was to see red in my PM, I'm town.
As a result, instead of playing optimally, I get to do what I deem best.

VOTE: Pine.
Because let's face it.
Pine's going to MAGNIFICENTLY bus one scumbuddy, and then keep his other scumbuddy alive, cruising to victory off of it. He may or may not pull the white flag gambit, bussing his second scumbuddy, but he'll manage to avert their death and pull out the win from the towncred Pine will get in lynching his scumbuddy.

As for why Pine is scum...
...Well, he's always scum.

Mastina, I don't bus. I dare you to find a counterexample that doesn't involve a guilty or something in the last three years. You know better.

Scumbuddies are way too valuable a resource to squander. I can get Towncred lots of other ways, just by talking.

U scum sis?

Can we lynch Riley?

No. We're lynching scum Siblings, not executing a PL right now.

[ThinkBig]

I should be in bed (it's 2:15 AM, I get up at 6 AM for work), don't have time to read this game and even if I did I'm honestly not sure where my priority game-wise would be but: as panicked as I was to see red in my PM, I'm town.
As a result, instead of playing optimally, I get to do what I deem best.

VOTE: Pine.
Because let's face it.
Pine's going to MAGNIFICENTLY bus one scumbuddy, and then keep his other scumbuddy alive, cruising to victory off of it. He may or may not pull the white flag gambit, bussing his second scumbuddy, but he'll manage to avert their death and pull out the win from the towncred Pine will get in lynching his scumbuddy.

As for why Pine is scum...
...Well, he's always scum.

I really

really

do not like this post.

[ThinkBig]

Reading through a little bit now while I'm on break.

[BTD6_maker]

Transcend only voted Siblings for a relatively short time. While no reason was given, the voting post would make you think it's "practically" NAI. It did seem like a joke vote and they changed fairly soon so while their initial vote was later than Grey's (and thus less likely to be simple RVS) I can ignore it as NAI as it was made in a joking manner.

[BTD6_maker]

What do you think are the chances that he's town overblowing your interactions with Siblings?

Maybe he is!!! But maybes are for babies and I'm a big girl!!! It's more likely that he's just scum!!!

Oh now you're just posturing.
VOTE: Riley Cake
-Ali

This is opportunistic.

Okay, going to bed for real now

Pine had voted Siblings a lot previously, but not given any substantial reasons until now. Even then, this on its own does not justify an apparent strong scum read. If you have other reasons, stating them is a good idea.

Pine seems very weakly scummy for this, but is pretty much nullscum and I consider Pine to be a weaker scumread than Fire.

[ThinkBig]

VOTE: Riley Cake

I quickly skim read the thread in reading and absolutely do not like what I have seen from RC. He seems to be a very bad attempt at parodying KainTepes. I don't like the fluff and the shades he is throwing at everyone. 276 and 277 don't feel natural to me and feel forced.

At this point, he is difficult to read and is showing interest in trolling and not game solving.

[ThinkBig]

@MOD: I'm V/LA on weekends. Also if you can add the individual heads to the hydras on OP, that would be very helpful!

[mastina]

I forgot to mention a couple of my signature quirks in VCA.
One, I tend to combine wagon sizes at a certain point in the game--namely, every (1) wagon compiled together into a gigantic wagon, and every (2) wagon compiled together into a wagon. This is a really nifty guideline for finding scum avoiding the major bandwagons, because it redefines wagon sizes in a way which scum don't normally counter. However, this is usually a tool I use somewhere in the middle-level of VCA: on higher levels, I tend to avoid generalities/rules such as "there must be scum in a given wagon size". (It still can be useful, but isn't AS useful.) On lower levels of VCA, it's difficult to really map out beyond the general "on major wagon/off major wagon".

The second quirk in my VCA is that I count Not Voting as a wagon...past a certain point, of course. If I fail to check who has been posting in the game thread for this section of VCA, it automatically bumps my VCA down a notch. (Which is most of the time, because I'm too lazy to look up who had posted at the time of the VC.) But the general idea there is that I am tracking those who are not putting a vote down. For some players, I actually expect this. (Reasonably Rational is infamous for virtually never voting, though there MAY be a minor correlation between their infrequent voting and their alignment but I haven't done the research there to verify.) If it's not a player I know basically never votes, though, I see a long absence of a vote as effectively a declaration of being on a wagon OF No Vote, thus why I have Not Voting as a wagon.

This second quirk stacks with my first, particularly at a certain point. For instance, it's really juicy when you have either only 1 or 2 players Not Voting, because most smaller wagons are those two numbers, and when you stack small wagons with Not Voting, suddenly you have a not-so-small wagon which usually finds scum.
(Gin, this is why I am one of the three queens of VCA; you should be taking notes here since this shit I'm spewing now is more up-to-date than my wiki/MD versions.)

ON THAT NOTE:

Riley Cake - 3 (-Grey-, Firebringer, Siblings Quarrel)

Siblings Quarrel - 1 (Pine)

Falco XV - 1 (Aristophanes)
Firebringer - 1 (Riley Cake)
BTD6_maker - 1 (Lil Uzi Vert)
Pine - 1 (mastina)
mastina - 1 (Transcend)
Not Voting - 4 (Falco XV, ThinkBig, BTD6_maker, tojam2)

It's still too early to count Not Voting as a wagon as of this VC. Any of the names in there could be town or could be scum. Now, for circumstantial reasons (see below), I happen to have a

guess

that they are in fact all town, but there's no way to know for sure because it's not an actual wagon at this point.

However, we've got something interesting: the Riley Cake wagon, nonexistent before, has two of the same members on it as the old Siblings Quarrel wagon did: Grey and Firebringer. There's

probably

a scum in there, especially if as I suspect Siblings Quarrel is town.

That leaves you with the nice juicy (1) voters: Pine, Aristophanes, Riley Cake, LUV, me, and Transcend. A total wagon size of six.
There, I am thinking Riley Cake is town. I also think that Aristophanes is town. LUV is

probably

town, too.

Which leaves: Pine and Transcend.

So at this point: you've got Grey/Firebringer, and Pine/Transcend, two separate pools, both of which are likely to contain scum. I'd wager one in each, minimum. One of those names is going to be town, no matter what. (Fuck, it'd be possible all of them are, just...incredibly improbable.) But this is a pretty good initial scum pool.

I haven't even read the thread yet, and THIS is how you do some proper VCA.
Now, granted.
You're the mod--you know how (in)accurate this is. But I just did what Titus tried and failed to do last game with a fraction of the resources. This VCA is a tool. My initial pool is those four names. When I actually do real scumhunting, maybe it changes. Maybe someone in there really towns it up. Or maybe someone really scums it up. This is, I can't stress this enough, just an

initial

estimate. It's a low-level gut feels thing. This is me using the

lowest

form of my VCA. My LOWEST form. Keep that in mind in terms of how good/bad it is.

Shame I'm not going to live long enough for you to see me get really creative with the higher forms of it.

[mastina]

NOW. For the game thread.

Pine, Transcend, and BTD are the scum team.
Gin told me so.

You know, if you substitute BTD with Grey...I would actually buy this post as being not only possible, but plausible. Fuck, I'd go so far as to even call it probable.

It's right up Pine's WIFOM ally for a scum player to make a declaration like this.

[-Grey-]

This shit is hilarious.

[mastina]

That said: not gonna quote the whole thing, but the majority of the early exchange page one looks town. If any of my initial pool of four is to be wrong, it would probably actually BE Grey, in spite of what I just said. That exchange isn't something impossible to come from scum, but it IS less likely. Aristophanes loosely looks town and I'm pretty sure Siblings Quarrel is town.

If any of the players outside my initial scumpool are scum, off of page one my first bet would be LUV--but I'm giving some benefit of the doubt, since I know LUV is always mislynch bait even as town and tends to look ridiculously scummy, plus, I don't have much experience with them. I have enough to know some of the generalities (e.g. mislynch bait), but not enough to know the specifics (e.g. the difference between "scummy town" and "just actually scum"). So I know LUV is scummy, and don't know if LUV is scummy-scum or scummy-town, but overall, benefit of the doubt in play here.

[mastina]

Top half of page 2 does make LUV look town to me though. These, on the other hand......

oh this started
i didn't get a pm
VOTE: frogisae

Prod dodge.

[mastina]

Page three: Firebringer does look like scum, but not definitely so.
Pine, definitely lean scum, so vote stays.
Transcend's probably actually a stronger scumread if I'm fully honest, though.
If this is Grey's scumgame, I've gained an understanding of how he's managed to win so many scumgames. (I always wondered how the fuck he did it because he always felt obvious to me, but here if he IS scum, with me actually in the game, I'm sure not seeing it.)

[mastina]

@Gin - Mod advice: People don't see edits into their posts. Why would they go back to look for them? Usually better to quote a reply. And obv it was a fake vote.

Disagree on basically every level.

People do go look at their own iso quite a bit from my experience.
As for how to handle things, my system is as follows:
For me fluff-responding to someone, I use an edit unless I'm vying for a nearby pagetop.
For me answering unbolded questions (or things which aren't even questions, such as in this case a vote which can't be counted), I use an edit because they weren't officially asking me but would probably appreciate the answer.
For me answering bolded questions which are unimportant, I use an edit because it's such a minor thing that an answer directly in that post is often the fastest, easiest thing to do.
It's only when answering important questions and/or REPEATED questions (if a minor question is asked multiple times) that I use an official post to respond to it...and then I edit the post ANYWAY, with a notification: "answered in post (posttag)numberofpostIjustmade(/posttag)".

This seems to work a good 95% of the time.

[mastina]

No town in this game but me.

Sorry, but I am obliged to counterclaim this. I see no benefit in letting you get away with your fakeclaim.

I

am the town in this game.
Yes. All of it. Ten town, all in me. Truly.