Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Creature]

Okay, gonna adjust my reads with yours:

Alisae
Nero Cain

Yuri
MathBlade

Leonshade

Elbirn

Creature
Brian Skies

Caesar Wills It

Lil Uzi Vert

Vecna
ssbm_Kyouko
davesaz

Maxous

Sondam

NoticeMeSenpai
nancy

[Creature]

Opinions on Caesar Wills It?

Do you think he's scum going under the radar or does he have a real life problem rn?

[Vecna]

Creature and Sondam having their usual TvT spat, let's wagon someone else.

I don't actually agree with this, I thought mariaRs response to getting wagoned was very scummy and in line with how ive seen her scum playstyle respond to pressure.

[Vecna]

Game-solving desire = 0.

How does one measure game-solving desire? The fact that I'm not posting 80+ posts a day? Or that I haven't been around the first few days of a 12+ day day-phase? Or maybe it's because I don't play like many other people on this site? I'm genuinely curious.

You also act as though apathy only comes from one alignment.

How about i dont give you a masterclass on how its done, but you instead just show me im wrong by ingame actions?

So far neither you or the slot you replaced into has done anything at all this game to further the wincondition for town OR any action that allows us to read your slot.

If this doesnt change, youre going to hang sooner rather than later. Its that fucking simple.

So if ur town, stop baiting the lynch

[Vecna]

This is Creature's scum game. Then take a look at this for a scum game where he stuck around.

There's a reason a handful of us are defending him. The confidence in his townieness is especially a point that I want noted.

Creature isn't just taking the easy road on the reads or he'd have LUV as lynchable. He doesn't. This is his usual PoE based on who he's townreading. What is it you like to say? You're scumreading someone because they have a playstyle you don't like. You're refusing to acknowledge that other people may just have a point when they say he's not scum and provide you with reasons based off experience with the player. That, my love, is a sign of a tunnel.

Like, you can ignore me on Maxous all you like. You can wagon Kyouko because he does need to post more and pressure might help with that. You can wagon me. You will

not

be mislynching Creature this game. Because I will literally vote anyone that's not a townread that I think can get traction to derail this shit.

VOTE: Maxous
Stand by for more on this, but add his attempts to buddy/defend me to the record of things from him that make me uncomfortable.

Creature just is not scum. LUV is not scum. The current leading wagons are fucking trash.

pedit: you definitely do, babe. It's fine tho since I do too

Great few posts here, you were right when u said that you can be obvtown when you want to.

Talk to me about the sondam slot.

[Leonshade]

@nancy:

What made your TR on me change?

Brian's reads list is meh, and calling nancy "manipulative" is not a read. Nothing about their recent activity compels me to doubt my SR there.

[Vecna]

This is Creature's scum game. Then take a look at this for a scum game where he stuck around.

There's a reason a handful of us are defending him. The confidence in his townieness is especially a point that I want noted.

Creature isn't just taking the easy road on the reads or he'd have LUV as lynchable. He doesn't. This is his usual PoE based on who he's townreading. What is it you like to say? You're scumreading someone because they have a playstyle you don't like. You're refusing to acknowledge that other people may just have a point when they say he's not scum and provide you with reasons based off experience with the player. That, my love, is a sign of a tunnel.

Like, you can ignore me on Maxous all you like. You can wagon Kyouko because he does need to post more and pressure might help with that. You can wagon me. You will

not

be mislynching Creature this game. Because I will literally vote anyone that's not a townread that I think can get traction to derail this shit.

VOTE: Maxous
Stand by for more on this, but add his attempts to buddy/defend me to the record of things from him that make me uncomfortable.

Creature just is not scum. LUV is not scum. The current leading wagons are fucking trash.

pedit: you definitely do, babe. It's fine tho since I do too

Oh btw people, DO DISREGARD THESE LINKS.

They're outdated and no longer reflect creatures new scumplay. this was already brought up.

He upgraded his scumplay in the last few months which will be evident if you look at his newer scumgames.

Im not sure what allignment creature is this game. I think hes town but am still not completely 100%;locked on this fact.

[Leonshade]

A Maxous wagon does not fill me with confidence. He's in my PoE pool but I haven't really seen a reason to scumread him. I think there's scum floating under the radar, but I'd rather lynch in dave/Brian/Kyouko than Maxous.

Opinions on Caesar Wills It?

Do you think he's scum going under the radar or does he have a real life problem rn?

His inactivity is NAI, it doesn't look like Pine is actively avoiding the thread. There are quite a few players flying under the radar and I don't know how to sort them when nobody wants to wagon them.

[Vecna]

nancy, I'm going to give you 2 more recent games to go meta Elbrin with, because last time I checked Elbrin hasn't played since bloodborne and honestly the way I see it, more recent meta is better, right?
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69654
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=69290 (Oh god it's my first game on site how embarassing)

Hmmmmm, the most important tbing in this is actually the meta on jaereed. Hia townplay in one of those links is completely completely different from what were seeing this game.

How come you havent talked about that at all ali?

[Vecna]

Two things you should know about me.

I hate being wrong and I'm lazy. I'm not going to go back and reread to get a better picture. I've been legit devastated since ABR flipped town. If all you two are going to is just say here is a town/scum game or two from so and so, that's not really talking about reads. Why is Brain considered like an IC? Why can't we lynch Sondam?

Devastated really?

Its pretty much all my fault and i really couldnt care less.

Bit overly dramatic mr luv

[Vecna]

LUV talk to me about the scum motivation behind Drixx saying he was going to go for pryamids super early on.

Ive already done this, its rather simple.

You wifom it as a reason youre not getting nightkilled. Pretend you picked it, but then just state you didnt get it. Maybe even pick a GF wonder later and make tow waste investigatives.

People claim scum couldn't do it because it invites investigatives. This reasoning is nonsensical.

[Leonshade]

Creature and Sondam having their usual TvT spat, let's wagon someone else.

I don't actually agree with this, I thought mariaRs response to getting wagoned was very scummy and in line with how ive seen her scum playstyle respond to pressure.

I don't think I have any scum meta with Maria, but her response didn't seem far off from how I'd expect town!Maria to respond. I think Maria's frustration at Creature is genuine, though I suppose it could come from scum!Maria annoyed at Creature.

And yes, Drixx being the reason Brian is allowed to so blatantly fly under the radar is really frustrating.

[Vecna]

Alisae - Town
Nero Cain - Town
Yuri - Town
MathBlade - idk
Leonshade - idk
Elbirn - town
Creature - scum
Caesar Wills It - scum
Lil Uzi Vert - scum
Vecna - town
ssbm_Kyouko - maybe scum
davesaz - idk
Maxous - idk
PeregrineV - town, probably
Sondam - town
NoticeMeSenpai - would lynch
nancy - manipulative

Isn't sure about Kyouko being scum but randomly just votes him out of the blue.

Good observation

[Nero Cain]

Maria is going to violently react regardless of alignment. I'm more concerned with them being fairly inactive post d1.

[Creature]

I'm wondering if the Sondam townreads actually come from meta or just "textbook townplay/scumplay".

[Vecna]

You told me before we're over, you gave me the cold shoulder

Another meta-reason why ive been hard townreading luv for so long.

In my previous game where we were scum together he co tinuously dodged pressure by pretending to be clueless, not really knowing what was goin on, playing the poor puppy card. It worked like a charm mind you, and in the end he died mainly due to a sharp bus.

This game he is openly inviting attention. Hes not playing under the radar at all. He is cheecky and basically begging for people to scumread his ass and come after him.

If he managed to fake this type of play and abuse his prior meta ro this extent he is brilliant. I dont think thats the reason though, hes just obvtown that has nothing to fear from pressure this game.

If he is scumbid gladly loose to him. And i hate losing.

Also the fact maria and gerry arent seeing this looks really really bad since maria was scum with him, and gerry claims he was scumreading him.

[Leonshade]

Why can't we just wagon the scumcloud? Pretend Drixx didn't exist and look at his ISO. He defends ABR but later naked hammers him and to this day hasn't stated why he did so. He spends the early days of D2 doing nothing and then shows up just to defend himself. His vote-hopping seems to make little sense based on his stated reads, and he's otherwise doing just the bare minimum to get by.

There hasn't been a strong wagon all day, I think this game state is the result of scum hanging back and letting town argue with each other. Brian is easily the most blatant example of such behavior in this game yet 90% of you are letting him off the hook because of one post from Drixx.

VOTE: Brian Skies

[Vecna]

One of the things that nancy did piqued my interest. What do I get from compare/combine flipped town
reads with reads of players I think are strong town reads?
Note: this is new, so yeah you haven't seen me do it this way before...

Is anyone bothering to analyze ABR's reads from before he got ran up and stopped talking?

Town: Yuri,

Spiffeh

nancy, davesaz, Maxou, Sondam and Nero.
PV: He's actually doing stuff in this game, it's good. Townlean.
ssbm, Caesar, Elbirn: not enough posts.
Creature, Leon: IDK
NoticeMeSenpai: I don't like his post calling A+N town based on irrelevant meta.
Scum: Vecnar, LUV,

A+N

Alisae

Aslan

Nero Cain

Yuri

MathBlade

Leonshade

Elbirn

Creature

Brian Skies

Caesar Wills It

Lil Uzi Vert

Vecna

ssbm_Kyouko

davesaz

Maxous

Sondam

NoticeMeSenpai

Nancy reorganized
Aslan, Yuri, MathBlade, Creature, Brian Skies, Caesar Wills It, Lil Uzi Vert, ssbm_Kyouko, NoticeMeSenpai
Nero Cain, davesaz, Sondam
Leonshade, Elbirn, Vecna, Maxous
(missing - PeregrineV)

Additive reads with emphasis on TR's
TR=4; Null or not mentioned=2; SR=1

Yuri 4+4
nancy 4+4
dave 4+2
Maxous 4+1
Sondam 4+2
Nero 4+2
PV 3+2
Creature 2+4
Leon 2+1
NoticeMeSenpai 2+4
Vecna 1+1
LUV 1+4
Math 2+4
Caesar 2+4
ssbm 2+4
Alisae 1+4
Brian Skies 2+4

ABR + {nancy + Fro99er} totals
nancy, Yuri
dave, Sondam, Nero, Creature, NoticeMeSenpai, Math, Caesar, ssbm, Brian Skies
Maxous, PV, LUV, Alisae
Leon
Vecna

To do: compare with more people I think are town, and with the so-far bottom of the list...
* Nero, Creature reads lists
* Leon, Vecna reads lists

Never before have i seen anywhere near this level of particilation and engagement from davesaz. Ive had two very recent games with him as town, and he never did stuff like this.

Which is surprising me quite a bit. He even just becomes lynchbait as town and barely puts up a fight while hes getting lynched due to a redirected guilty as town, but here he comes out and does this.

Not gonna say he cant suddenly do this as town with a lot more availlable time, but the difference in involvement is a major trendbreak.

[Vecna]

LOL

VOTE: Dave

And obviously luv has very similair meta as me

[Vecna]

@Notice yeah and that was really the main reason I was TRing him before. (When I actually was, and not just lying about it.)

@davesaz keep in mind that people tend to SR Aslan because they don't have a good on the player personality-wise. That's why I'm emphasizing my hard TR here. Aslan has an unusual playstyle that can come off as scummy if you don't know how to recognize their Town game.

His towngame IS still very different from the recently finished code geass.

[Vecna]

Does nothing but lynch town.

calls me useless.

This is the type of comments that come from scum in 80%+ of the cases its used thiugh nero.

If you feel so strongly about your own reads, then get crackin and do a better job convincing people.

So far im really not getting the impression youre annoyed noone is sheeping you.

Spiffeh did have that. I did have that. Youre just making snide comments from the sidelines.

[Vecna]

excuse me if I don't trust the reads of someone that has been on both mislynches.

Also I find it hard to believe that a town Math is so dejected that she's goinf to play from the sidelines.

I'll agree to this.

[Vecna]

Senpai is town as fuck for 7593, single-handedly course-correcting the game state.

Do you still feel the same knowing that its based on outdated meta that no longer applies?

[Vecna]

Maria is going to violently react regardless of alignment. I'm more concerned with them being fairly inactive post d1.

That, and the fact that gerry is no longer tunneling on the deo for that thing he noticed early on. Town gerry would still be all over that.

Maria doesnt appear really investigative to me at all. Stayed away from the abr vs vecna thing as id expect scum to do, and both heads dont appear to have any sense of the gamestate.

When under pressure both heads suddenly come out to fight briefly though.

Im actually feeling reasonably good with my vote again. At any rate id want the slot gone for endgame.

[Vecna]

Also seeing how im obv-towning it up and pretty much everyone has come to see it, i would like to request the doctor be on me tonight.