Open 678 - White Flag GAME OVER!

[ThinkBig]

[quote="In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p8941359]post 1423[/url], Siblings Quarrel"]Also hey guys, let's play a game!
These are 3 of TB's ISOs as town:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8#p8765728
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8#p8709357
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8#p8780492

Now look at TB's current ISO.
-Ali[/quote]

What's your point? Meta is bullshit. Always has been and still is.

[mastina]

These posts in his ISO will appear right next to each other. They're also 14 minutes apart. This looks like a derail attempt on a scumbuddy whilst simulatenously white flag gambitting.

Exhibit A:

VOTE: Titus
L1

Exhibit B:

This isn't scum imo but we can remove the shitty slot and move on. Would rather lynch tb.

Exhibit C:

VOTE: luv

Time of Titus vote: Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:45 am.
Time of LUV vote (and by extension, Titus Unvote): Tue Feb 28, 2017 8:04 am.

A time difference of 19 minutes.

[Siblings Quarrel]

Also hey guys, let's play a game!
These are 3 of TB's ISOs as town:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8#p8765728
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8#p8709357
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8#p8780492

Now look at TB's current ISO.
-Ali

What's your point? Meta is bullshit. Always has been and still is.

You're not making any attempt to gamesolve. Your ISO here is dull and empty, and here you're just discreditting in a really scummy way. Also things like "This player never busses" meta can be manipulated, manipulating apporach is a lot harder.
-Ali

[nancy]

What's missing behind your thread-encompassing narratives, mastina, though they are surgical in precision and supported by just enough intuition and logic to make them seem credible, is one crucial ingredient: truth.

Before you get lynched, feel free to explain how you honestly expected to twist yourself out of a scumread on Pine after that push backfired on you.

[mastina]

What'd I miss?

To be honest the scumteam I'd want at this point would be Pine-Titus-ThinkBig.

I don't know why I want that to be the scumteam, it just somehow sorta appeals to my emotional desires. It's something which I just would feel really happy about it being true.

But realistically, I think it's the Triple-T Trio, Titus, Transcend, ThinkBig.

[mastina]

I'm never ever lynching Riley slot this game. As far as I'm concerned, it's an IC.

^

[mastina]

You're not even trying to find out why we value the Riley slot..

This.

If Titus claimed she hadn't read the thread (something she probably would have done if she were town, btw), I could maybe understand her not understanding why we're townreading the slot--

maybe

.

Titus has made no such claim. Quite the contrary, she has indicated that she

has

read the game, and yet, in spite of the gamestate making it as abundantly clear as fundamentally fucking possible, she's not trying to understand why that slot is so heavily townread.

Riley Cake was town. momo is town. Period. I'm sad to see Riley go, since to be blunt I trusted Riley to be competent and I hold no such faith in momo. But the new player doesn't change the alignment of the slot. Riley was town; momo is town. That simple.

[mastina]

You feel it's lynchbait. P obvious.

Lynchbait?

No.

The reason I'm townreading the Riley slot is because Riley was the best fucking scumhunter in this game.
They had two of the three elements of the triple-threat

at minimum

: Riley Cake BLED obvtown, off of every pour. They had good reads. They had good reasoning, too. Disguised as a gimmick, this reasoning was well-hidden, but it's there. Every single Riley Cake defender saw Riley's content and knew that it was good. Literally every fucking single one of us knows why Riley held the stances they did.

Lynchbait couldn't be further from the basis of the townread on Riley.

[mastina]

That's the only reason to keep that slot alive. It hasn't posted a grammatically coherent thought since I got here.

Such superficially-based judgmental remarks are beneath you, Titus. Strip away the dime store gumdrops and thrift store ribbons from Riley's posts, and all that's left is town.

This.

SO FUCKING MUCH, THIS.

[mastina]

No, I felt she was the best player here until she was pushed to the brink. You only wanted her lynch because she prevents you from pushing your agenda.

^

[mastina]

The obliviousness of Mastina and hard tunnel should not be present from town Mastina given we recognized each other early in SU2.

You know this is a bit of a silent secret I've held but in spite of me being a proponent of there being no such thing as a truly reliable scumtell.
I have to admit.
There is ONE tell that I secretly hold.

And at this point with my frustration like this, I feel like outing it.

I've always felt that those who specifically try to reference past games to bolster their stance have a >random chance of being scum. How much above random, I don't know exactly, but referencing specific past games and trying to manipulate them to have specific meaning is basically what I look for.

I do this as scum basically every single scumgame I can think of. I can't recall doing it as town, at least not in the way that I apply the tell.
I see scum do it all the time, especially to put down others, especially to invalidate them, especially to degrade their content, their push, and to make it seem "worse" than what it is.
I don't recall seeing town ever displaying that attitude.

In other words, a very specific form of meta manipulation.
I've always felt it was a scumtell.
And I'm so fucking sick.
Of seeing it.
And not calling them out on it. I've held back on this tell countless times. I've held back from accusing people of it numerous times. Endless amounts of times, I've held back from using this logic, because I didn't want it to be true, because I didn't want to out my secret tell, because I didn't want to reveal it, because I was afraid of others calling it out as bullshit, because I was afraid it could maybe be wrong, or even worse of all, the tell is valid in general but for THAT SPECIFIC game wasn't right on the player I accuse, thus making the tell appear weaker than it really is, so I have held back on it, only to time and time again be shown right to have thought this way.

So fuck that shit.

I'm telling the tell right here and now.

Using specific past games, and manipulating that specific past game to tell a narrative which casts another player in negative light, is a scumtell.

And Titus is displaying it in top form here.

She was still reluctant to lynch scum there until endgame so *shrug*.

YEAH.
AND GUESS WHAT.
THIS HAS BEEN AN INCREASINGLY GOOD YEAR FOR ME IN TERMS OF SCUMHUNTING.
I really feel like this year, I have a shot for maybe the first fucking time in my entire mafia playing career of winning Paragon of Mafia Hunters. My scumplay has been better than my townplay for literally years. I've been noted for being a scum player for years. I've been noted as only being mediocre-good as town, for a constant period of time.

But you know what?

I actually feel like I'm getting better!

I actually feel like I am improving. Something magical happened. Something mysterious. Something ~mystical~. I feel more accurate than I was before--and I feel less reason to hesitate. I feel less reason to doubt my reads. I feel more on top of my game. I feel like I actually know what I'm fucking doing. I know what I'm saying. I know what I'm doing. I know that I won't get things 100% accurate, all the time; I'm not

that

good.

But time and time again, I feel like I'm getting better, like I am justified in

not

having changed my stances. In short, you could say that I was previously afraid to be wrong. But more and more, something just...awakened within me. And now I'm not. I'm not afraid to be wrong. I'm not afraid to stick to my guns. My reads are more right than wrong. I just KNOW it. Now, admittedly. I still need to work on the "proving" it part. I need to refine my convincing tactics, my charisma, to sway people into showing them that, yes. I am fucking right. I DO know what I am fucking talking about.

I am not just a ranting, raving lunatic; my reads are actually solid and have good basis. But I have DAMN good reason to have gained my confidence boost: experience. I'm being shown right. I've had constant shows, where I've seen players come to doubt themselves and end up being wrong. And that's changed my mafia philosophy.

So fuck doubt. Fuck the idea of me being wrong; I am not.

[mastina]

Your bias is turning into prejudice.

Or, y'know.

She's just fucking scum.

[mastina]

Fact of the matter is, Titus goes after the towniest players in the game as scum and it constantly gets written off as moonlogic. Well, I don't think it is moonlogic, because she hasn't presented any logic but bad reads.

This.

This is what she has done.

Riley Cake was hard-town and painfully obviously so.
She attacked them.
Aristophanes is obviously town and painfully obviously so.
She attacked him.
I am in top-obvtown form. This is literally as town as I get; I can't fake my ranting raving lunatic state as scum. (I just can't because there's no way for me as scum to get into the emotional state I am in because of this fucking game.) She attacks me.
Now, she attacks Grey--who is transparently town, and basically my strongest townread.
And she's also taken a jab at Siblings Quarrel--a widely held townread.

She's been going after the towniest players, and yes. I can confirm: that's her scum meta to a T. She gets away with it because people write her pushes off. But her reads this game are just

bad

. And beyond the level a town-Titus would ever produce.

This just isn't a town Titus in any way, shape, or form.

[mastina]

There is it. I am better than Titus, so I am going to ignore her.

This is also a signature scum tactic of Titus's: when a player is scumreading her, she degrades their attack and calls it a personal thing. She says their scumread is based off of factors outside of the game, therein trying to discredit the validity of the scumread.

Titus couldn't be more in her scumgame if she tried.

[mastina]

AND I'm seeing behavior that you partake in as scum (re: your stubborn and unyielding push on one of the objectively towniest slots in the game), and pushing her for using annoying text is something that I, perhaps wrongly, I don't know, attribute as being beneath you as town.
I honestly feel your stubborn push on Riley-slot is scum!Titus play.

This.

[mastina]

Scum Titus persists in framing and narrative. Nothing good comes from browbeating.

GEE I WONDER WHAT I THINK YOUR PLAY HAS BEEN THIS GAME.

[mastina]

I think the thing that really rubs me wrong in your approach towards Riley is that you come across like a mother hen towards Yume, who has her own... issues... so seeing you act like the same sort of close-minded bully that you defend Yume from just rings as all kinds of false.

This, too.

Titus has no issues as town understanding a player with playstyle issues--in fact, her fucking specialty is in dealing with them and defending them and working with them. It's literally her thing as town to do. Yet here, instead of doing that, instead of recognizing the special snowflake (and I use that term not as an insult mind you) Riley Cake is, she writes Riley off entirely as just obnoxious-and-scum, with no thought otherwise.

[mastina]

Has Riley expressed any followable read since I got here?

Overlapping your isos?

Transcend I am considering you mod confirmed town if Riley flips scum. This would be the best distancing if you were scum.

You do know im good at faking interactions
Riley what's with the quick transition from scum!me to town!me

cos the main reason why I was scumreading ya was cos ya didn't answer my question and ya were trying to push the game off topic!!! but now you put it back on topic and showed me why ya weren't just distracting the twon!!! and ya also answered my question. so I think you are town!!!

If you think annoying people that don't answer questions are scum, you will scumread me in every single game. Every. Single. Game.

but is firebringer that kinda person too? COS IF NOT THEN I THINK HE'S SCUM!!!

I want Titus to explain why she's voting me >:C UNLESS SHE'S GONNA BE LIKE FIREBRINGER AND NOT EXPLAIN ANYTHING!!! THAT JUST MAKES ME THINK SHE'S SCUM EVEN MORE!!!!!!!!

anyway! transy!!!! whatcha think 'bout the fact that TWO PEOPLE IN THE SAME SLOT aaaallll don't wanna talksies with me? firebringer didn't wanna talk to me, and titus doesn't either!!! isn't that a super big coincidence? everyone else loves to talk to me!!!

I THINK THINKBIG AND TITUS ARE SCUM WORKING TOGETHER TO GET THE WAGON OFF TITUS!!!! THAT WAS SUSPICIOUS!!!!! AND TRANSCEND IS TOWN!!!!

(Which mind you is a read evolution from it being Transcend + Titus, though I understand perfectly why Riley had the change in read given ThinkBig's scumming the thread up.)

One of the huuuugest reasons i voted fire was cos he refused to talk ta me at all!!! Town loves to talk to people cos they can sort em!!! AND NOW TITUS DOESN'T WANT TO TALK TO SO THAT JUST MAKES ME EVEN MORE SUSPICIOUS!!!!

VOTE: Transcend
Not feeling an Aristo wagon.

I don't feel Transcend.

GRRRR!!! YA SAID HE WAS OBVSCUM!!! ya keep changing ya mind titus!!!

Riley, at this point, I am almost wanting to policy lynch you. You're not making any sense and are obviously attempting to be a really bad troll parody of KainTepes. For those who TR RC, why?

hehe!!! Ya policy lynch someone not 'cos ya think they're scum, but because ya hate their guts!!!! But if ya scumread me, ya wouldn't even be thinking about a policy lynch!!! You'd just go "HOW RILEY ACTS DOESN'T MATTER!!!! SHE'S SCUMMY!!!!" and gobble me up!!! I think ya might be SCUM CAUGHT WITH COGNITIVE DISONNANCE!!!

I don't know why Uzi's defending me so hard!!!! He's my big brother, but WE'RE NOT EVEN SIBLINGS!!!! So i really dunno!!! I appreciate it though!!! I'm waiting for him to answer the questiom I asked c:
I hope he's not buddying me to make me his friend cos he's scum!!!! THAT'S LIKE A GUY WITH A VAN AND CANDY!!! but there's something that makes me think he'd protect me as town.... But I can't say too much cos it's ON GO ING !!!

(I mean, frankly, this was Too MUCH English.)

I think TB might be town sadly. I don't think he would constantly bring up his scum read on you and attempt to tunnel you all game as scum.

why notsies?

UZI!!!! EVEN IF TRANSCEND WAS DIFFICULT TO LYNCH, THINKBIG COULD STILL TUNNEL HIM AS SCUM!!! cos he can sit on the wagon forever and ever and ever and nobody will ever suspect him of not voting!!! Ya get my driftsies?

I CAN VOTE EITHER!!!

(Titus/ThinkBig are the names in question here.)

...This isn't even a complete list. This is just a list of the ones that I personally mostly agree with--also present are doubts about LUV, doubts about Grey, and other such paranoia-doubts which would likely have been shown to have gone away if Riley was allowed to stay.

All of those and so much more, very easy to follow--not only the reads, but also the reasons. The prods Riley made to others. The pushes Riley was heaviest on. This, not even going into all of Riley's content

prior

to your replace-in, which was rather extensive and thorough. Riley was very active and very strong in their pushes, and it was clear and unambiguous what they were doing at almost all times. (In all of Riley's iso, I can maybe count on a single hand the number of things which I'm not sure of the meaning.)

[mastina]

Fucking spineless replace out that was

Eh, not really. It takes a spine to stay in this game given just how thoroughly terrible it is, but that doesn't mean replacing out removes yours.

[mastina]

You seem to be the only person I can logically interact with here.

*pouts*

[mastina]

@Mod: Replace me. Sorry Gin

Fuck this game.

Riley, the beacon of hope and all that was good in this game, got removed.
Grey, the one player I had zero urge to strangle, replaced out.
And now this.

Just.

Fuck this game.

It'd be one thing if we were getting replacements of equal skill--but to be blunt. I've seen a bit of momo's play and further observed a lack thereof in this game, so to be frank momo is just not nearly at the quality of skill Riley was at.

It'd be a pain to find one, yet alone, TWO players to match the caliber of Grey and LUV.

This is literally "fuck with mastina: round two".

[mastina]

VOTE: Aristophanes

WHy.
MOD.
WHY.

WHY.

WHY.

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT WHY DO YOU TORMENT ME SO.

DID I REALLY DESERVE THIS?
YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO TAKE REVENGE ON FATE, NOT ON ME.

[mastina]

The other scum is BTD BTW.
pedit cause he's fake

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHGHGGG!
HAIR RIP>
HEADDESK.
TEETH GRIDK.

IT"S JUST NOT FUCKING FAIR.

NOT. FUCKING. FAIR.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Well actually, this game is being ran so I have the qualifications to run the Ginn's Revenge

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

oh