Open 678 - White Flag GAME OVER!

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Always identify who to blame in an emergency.
(It's Pine)

Eighteenth Votecount

:

Titus- 4 (Momo, tojam, mastina, Aristophanes)

ThinkBig - 3 (Siblings Quarrel, Transcend, Lil Uzi Vert)

Transcend - 1(BTD6)
mastina - 3 (Pine, Titus, nancy)
Lil Uzi Vert - 1 (ThinkBig)

Not Voting - 1 (Falco XV)

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to lynch.

Day 1's deadline is Sunday, March 12th, @ 1:00 AM EST--(expired on 2017-03-12 01:00:00)

V/LA Notices/Mod Notes:

• Mastina is V/LA on weekends
  
• ThinkBig is V/LA on weekends
  
• Seeking replacement for Lil Uzi Vert

[ThinkBig]

Well actually, this game is being ran so I have the qualifications to run the Ginn's Revenge

/pre-in

pre-ins are actually full for that game

[mastina]

Titus are you the other other scum?

Saving grace.
Suffice to say:

YES!

[ThinkBig]

Thought I had unvoted earlier.

UNVOTE:

I'll be re reading this when I get a chance.

[mastina]

I thought this was my game?

No, you lost the privilege to call this your game when you started deliberately fucking with me.

I did no such thing

[Siblings Quarrel]

Titus' play here reminds me a lot of her play here tbh:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 2#p8825850
-Ali

[mastina]

VOTE: mastina

Fuck you, nancy.

No, seriously.

Fuck you.

I know. Absolutely fucking KNOW. 100%. That you've read the fucking game. You were following it even before you fucking replaced in. And even further! I bet you offered to replace in specifically because you were townreading Grey, for whatever reason. Maybe even specifically because of my analysis where I laid out why I was townreading Grey.

So I know you cast that vote after having read the game--there's zero ambiguity here. There's zero need for me to say to you, "read the fucking game" before you cast a vote like that...because you already did. You already fucking read the game, and then you cast that fucking vote.

So again.

Fuck. you.

I want Grey back.

[mastina]

Mastina what do you think of how Thinkbig has been treating Titus?
-Ali

At this stage, probably scumbuddies.

It's not outside the realm for one of the three Ts to be town, especially if Pine is scum.

But I don't think so.

[Titus]

I think the thing that really rubs me wrong in your approach towards Riley is that you come across like a mother hen towards Yume, who has her own... issues... so seeing you act like the same sort of close-minded bully that you defend Yume from just rings as all kinds of false.

This, too.

Titus has no issues as town understanding a player with playstyle issues--in fact, her fucking specialty is in dealing with them and defending them and working with them. It's literally her thing as town to do. Yet here, instead of doing that, instead of recognizing the special snowflake (and I use that term not as an insult mind you) Riley Cake is, she writes Riley off entirely as just obnoxious-and-scum, with no thought otherwise.

I could if I ever got to engage the slot.

Please deposit your scum motivated tirade and just talk. K?

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Don't be a jerkass

[mastina]

Nope.

Again.
Fuck you.

I know you're town.
I fucking KNOW you're town.

Which is why your attitude is all the more of a shitty piece of crap.

You're posting what you are as town, and it's absolutely disheartening to see.

[Titus]

Titus' play here reminds me a lot of her play here tbh:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 2#p8825850
-Ali

Mastina, I would like your input on fixing the wiki in this game when done.

[mastina]

Why the naked vote on Mastina? Don't like this vote at all.

Why the white knight of fucking MASTINA of all people who needs absolutely zero help defending herself?

Don't like this defense at all.

[mastina]

{-Grey-, mastina,

titus

}

{Aristophanes,

pine

, BTD6_maker}

{Falco XV, Tojam}

{

Riley Cake

, LUV, Siblings Quarrel

}

{Transcend}

BTW mastina what do you see here? Hint: It's bolded.
-Ali

It was absolutely godawful, and I've underlined things *I* would have bolded.

[nancy]

Titus, please answer my question? It wasn't in jest.

[mastina]

Before you get lynched, feel free to explain how you honestly expected to twist yourself out of a scumread on Pine after that push backfired on you.

NO>
NOT.
GOING.
TO.
FUCKING.

PKAYU.
THIS.
SHIT.

[TheRealGin-N-Tonic]

Well actually, this game is being ran so I have the qualifications to run the Ginn's Revenge

YEAH AND THIS GAME IS A FUCKING PREVIEW BECAUSE YOU ARE SPECIFICALLY TORMENTING ME.

WHEN I PLAY I AM GOING TO FUCKING

DEMAND

. ABSOLUTELY

DEMAND

YOU STICK ME WITH THE MOST OP ROLE OF ALL BeCAUSE YOU DAMN WELL FUCKING OWN UP TO YOU OWING ME THAT MUCH.

heh. That'll be a fun game to say the least. What you should be worried about it Ginn's Loony Bin. If you don't replace out of that game then I've failed.

[mastina]

I thought this was my game?

No, you lost the privilege to call this your game when you started deliberately fucking with me.

I did no such thing

YEAH WELL THE GAMESTATE SAYS OTHERWISE BECAUSE ALL THE PEOPLE WHO I CAN ACTUALLY WORK WITH ARE PROBABLY SCUM, THE PEOPLE WHO I COULD WORK WITH WHO WERE CLEARLY TOWN REPLACED OUT, AND NOW I AM IN A POSITION WHERE I HAVEN O FUCKING ALLIES IN SPITE OF ME HAVING A VERY FUCKING GOOD STANCE AND IT"S JUST.
NOT FUCKING FAIR.

[Siblings Quarrel]

Mastina what do you think of how Thinkbig has been treating Titus?
-Ali

At this stage, probably scumbuddies.

It's not outside the realm for one of the three Ts to be town, especially if Pine is scum.

But I don't think so.

Disagree, I think scum!TB is buddying up to town!Titus. Like, it really, really, really bothers that if TB is scum with Titus that TB isn't putting more effort into derailing her lynch. Like it seems to me that TB doesn't even care if Titus gets lynched or not.
-Ali

[Titus]

Titus, please answer my question? It wasn't in jest.

Which one? I missed it.

[mastina]

and just talk. K?

I HAVE BEEN TALKING.
THE FULL FUCKING GAME.
EVERY STEP OF THE WAY.
UNAMBIGUOUS. CLEAR. ALL OUT THERE.
NOT HIDING.
STANCES AS CLEAR AS FUCKING DAY.
I HAVE BEEN MESSING AROUND SOME.
AND PUSHING>
BUT ALWAYS TALKING>

NEVER LACKING IT.
NEVER NO TALKING.

AND PEOPLE WERE ACTUALLY LISTENING.
BECAUSE THEY SAW THE SAME SHIT I DID.
AND NOW THOSE PEOPLE ARE GONE.

AND WE ARE MOCVING FARTHER AND FATERW AY FROM A SCUM <YNCH.
WHEN WHE WERE SO FUCKING CLOSE.
SO. FUCKING. CLOSE.
AND SHOULD HAVE DONE IT FIFTY PAGES AGO.
AND SHOULD BEE ABLE TO HAVE A PERFET FUCKING TOWN WIN.
YET WE ARE GOING IN THE ENTIRELY WRONG DIRECTION BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT ARE FUCKING LEAVING THE GAME FROM FRUSTRATION.

[nancy]

Titus are you the other other scum?

[nancy]

Before you get lynched, feel free to explain how you honestly expected to twist yourself out of a scumread on Pine after that push backfired on you.

NO>
NOT.
GOING.
TO.
FUCKING.

PKAYU.
THIS.
SHIT.

Okay, I'll try a different tack. Please? I'm not convinced you're Town. You were so convinced that Pine was scum, and you're willing to write it off because a few other slots want to policy an obvtown? I don't get you. Titus might be scum, but I don't buy your narrative right now. I'd like to see what Titus has to say for herself and I'd like you to explain your stance on Pine. I'm not letting you drop your read there just because there aren't enough scum in this game to fit it.

[mastina]

I'm not convinced you're Town.

Then fuck your reading comprehension; it's literally impossible for me to town it up harder than I have this game.

You were so convinced that Pine was scum, and you're willing to write it off because a few other slots want to policy an obvtown?

I'm willing to write it off because there's only three scum in the game and I have four scumreads--Pine is the weakest of them now. This is from a combination of reasons. Firebringer's strong scum posting, Titus's continuation of that tradition, Transcend's posts REALLY rubbing me the wrong way, and ThinkBig having pinged my gut HARD even early-on. The only reason I wasn't harder on ThinkBig early is BECAUSE I had three scumreads already and he couldn't have been scum if all of them were right. But then he continued posting, and it continued to get worse. And Transcend's posting didn't get better, either. So I have to pick and choose. I can't be right about all four; I MUST be wrong about one. Pine's admittedly fallen under the radar thanks to a lack of posting, but I 100% know that's null for him and not related to his alignment this game. He's still a scumread, but of the four, he's the one I feel is currently most likely to be wrong.

I don't get you.

Time for the obligatory flowchart.

Here, for your reading pleasure, might as well quote this.

I think everyone should make one of these. Especially mastin.

Actually...I have.

I've been meaning to post it, too. It's about a year out of date, though, but I started compiling a way around Mafia with the Quickness 2 called, "How to read Mastin: the flowchart".

Spoiler: Stuff about it

The flowchart, while half a year old in its latest version, still applies more than it doesn't, by the way.
I'll condense it down for you, though:
If Mastin is scum, accept the loss; she's going to win regardless of what you do. So treat her like town.
If Mastin is town, then she is town. Treat her as town. If she wants to be listened to, listen to her and trust her instincts. If she doesn't tell you to listen to her, take her words with a grain of salt; they're reads but not solid ones.
BAM.
You now know how to treat Mastin.
Will work out for you nearly every single game.

Summary. I think I realized my problem with Mastin. Her reads are changing very quickly and they're moving on a very, very wide scale.

Helpful hint, you have absolutely no reason to trust me on this right now, but this is a MASSIVE towntell for me. On the "how to read Mastin: the flowchart" I made (I need to track down the most up-to-date version), it's one of the primary items, in fact. The reason? Town Mastin doesn't have a clue what's going on. Her reads are in a state of constant flux, specifically because of that, and her own self-doubt, paranoia, and whatnot betrays her, as she constantly second-guesses herself and reevaluates, rethinks, and redoes stuff. In contrast, scuMastin has absolute control of the game. Whereas town-Mastin is defined by inconsistency, scuMastin is defined by consistent, solid, controlled, calculated play. She keeps the same reads as much as possible, because it serves to antagonize the least number of players. She is calm, collected, and cool. She is strategic. She is focused. Her thoughts are logical and precise, because she has a good handle on the game, and thus, her mind does not betray her.

Or in short, the difference between town and scum is the difference between chaos and order. Now, obviously, this isn't absolute. There have been towngames where I've felt in control, rare as they may be. There have been scumgames where I was chaotic, either by circumstances or in one or two cases me faking my town chaos convincingly. But it IS a fairly solid general guideline. I know what I'm doing as scum; I'm just taking my best guess and throwing stuff at the wall to see what sticks as town.

I bet she has quite a few "playstyles" (and she knows, I think, why I'm saying this.)

Indeed I do. Fairly certain I said so already in this game, too, the reason why: because my play in games is fluid, thanks to situational awareness. While I might not know what's going on as town, I can generally feel out the game and have an idea for what will work best, adapting to have a playstyle specific to that game. It's mildly helpful, since it lets me hone in on scum better, but situational awareness mostly helps me as scum, because as scum, adapting my play to the game when I have more info than my town self does is

lethally

effective.

Though that does remind me, I need a point in there about focusing on scumhunting.

I find her posts coming from a mostly town point of view and she has a genuine interest in finding scum.

Right, that's another one I need to add in.

How To Read Mastin

:

Are you zMuffinman?

Yes-->Screw tells, you know mastin's alignment instantly.
No-->

Are you AngryPidgeon?

Yes-->Screw tells, you know mastin's alignment instantly.
No-->

Are you a player who has hydraed or has otherwise worked well with Mastin?

Yes-->You likely don't need the chart, but because you're not that familiar with her, you should probably go through it anyway as a precaution.
No-->You REALLY need to go through the chart; proceed! But fair warning in advance that it's only about 90% accurate.

Is/Are zMuffinman/AP in the game?

Yes-->Sheep them on their read! Never doubt it.
No-->Think like them and continue on.

THE FLOWCHART:

Is it D1?
Yes-->...And you're suspicious of Mastin?!?
She's town.
No-->Is it D2? Yes-->She's prob-town.
No-->Is it D3 or later? Yes-->Proceed.

Does Mastin look town?

No-->She's town.
Yes-->Proceed to next step.

Trust her as town.

What does she do?

Get paranoid of you-->She's town.
Enthusiastically work with you-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Nothing-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Milk your townread and bully you-->Proceed.

Suddenly pressure her.

What does she do?

Freak out-->She's town.
Show concern, but subdued-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Brush it off-->Proceed.

Is she posting up a storm?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she gloating how good her scumgame is?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does Mastin have delusions of grandeur?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she waffling...
...A lot?

Yes-->She's town.
Sorta?-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does she look like she's trying to leave a legacy?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she antagonizing everyone?

Yes-->She's town.
No-->Proceed.

Has Mastin rambled at all on MD theory?

Yes-->She's town.
No-->Proceed.

Is Mastin making a case for why she could be scum?
Yes-->She's town.
Kinda?-->Prob-town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is Mastin making very strong reasons why she's town?
No-->She's town.
Kinda-->Prob-town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Yes-->Proceed.

If applicable, did she 'crumb her role and/or claim it openly and immediately?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Do the circumstances behind her play and/or claim look town?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she irrational?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is she spewing random illogical theories?

Yes-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Does her posting look intentional?

No-->She's town.
Yes-->Proceed.

Is she spontaneous, random, and/or whimsical?

Yes-->She's town.
Maybe?-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
No-->Proceed.

Is her tone flat?

No-->probably town, but proceed anyway as a precaution.
Yes-->Proceed.

(BONUS:

If Mastin is behind, does she demonstrate knowledge of the

current

gamestate she could not reasonably have at her supposed point of reference?

No-->She's town.
It's hard to say...-->She probably does know, but not much, having likely skimmed offline, not logged in, and chose not to get the full context to spoiler her as probable-town.
Yes-->Proceed.)

And finally...

Is there minimal resistance to lynching her?

Yes-->She's town; defend her!
...Maybe?-->You've gotten this far and the best you've got is a "maybe"?!? You dummy, run through it again! (But she's probably town anyway.)-->All other factors equal, if you're having this much trouble reading Mastin, just freakin' assume she's town. (She likely is, anyway.)-->FOR THE LOVE OF GODS, SHE'S TOWN, DANG IT.
No-->She's probably scum...but you should run through the flowchart one more time just to be sure, as a precaution.

Is Mastin's posting wildly inconsistent?
Yes-->She's town.
Maybe?-->Probably town, but proceed anyway.
No-->Proceed.)

(Oh, and I think rambling in-thread's already there*, but if not, it should be.)
*Relies on scum having daychat. Scum have daychat, in-thread rambling = decent towntell. Scum don't have daychat, rambling = prob-null, maybe slight townlean. Scum daychat ambiguous, assume slight townlean.

(Oh, should be noted. Last scum, rambling in-thread gets upgraded to major towntell, since scuMastin typically keeps rambles to the scum QT about why she's screwed.)

Totally should just, in general, take this policy about me.
There's a flowchart that I plan to publish that will give better tells for reading me in general, some of which are timeless, others which are in contemporary site meta, but valuable all the same. Until it's actually published, though, the general policy I have on reading me is, increasingly, becoming:

Just assume I'm town until you have a REALLY solid reason not to. You'll be right the VAST majority of the time, by sheer probability alone.

(In fact, beyond probability. Probability says I should be scum a minimum of 25% of the time. 2014's been something like half that overall.)

It'll save you a BUNDLELOADS of headaches.

(Should be noted that my record was 34 games IN A ROW as town and my scumgame remains STILL below statistical probability in numbers.)

"If you're townreading Mastin, lynch her. She's scum, having successfully predicted your movements and is manipulating you. You fell into her trap, hook, line, and sinker.
If you're scumreading Mastin, she's town; save her from the lynch. She's probably either really onto something or really lost. In either case, she needs your help, either to sheep her or help her develop more accurate reads."

Some of them are out of date thanks to contextual meta shifts, but most of them still apply.

(Note of course that the flowchart is never 100% accurate. It's impossible, literally impossible, to display all of them in a single game since many of them are in fact slightly contradictory, but the point is to see as many as possible and if the majority matches town or scum. This chart has been in play for quite a while, now, and to this date, in spite of no active attempts to uphold it and some attempts as scum to subvert it, remains highly relevant to my play. It goes to prove my point, though: scuMastin always has this laser-like focus. Anything Goes in particular, until I faked having my confidence shattered, I was pushing for a specific lynch. In games like Resistance where I was the last living scum in lylo, I wove a narrative specific to one player being scum because I held focus. In my entire scumgame career, holding focus has done nothing but serve me well. Losing focus has done nothing but screw me over. Because guess what? People like focus. They like confidence. They love to see assurance in a read. They want to have a figure be charismatic and to follow. It's an inherent part of people's nature. That's why tunneling is so prevalent, because it works DAMN good and well to get a lynch. People hate doubt. When someone is calling everyone town/scum in rapid circles, AKA circlejerking, people think it's scum trying to mislynch anyone. They see desperation and attribute it to being scum. They don't see a town player desperately trying to figure out the game. They see a scum player that is trying to find options. So damn fucking straight. Maybe someday I'll flail as scum. It could in theory be this game. But in practice? Fuck no. As scum I'd push a lynch through; as town, here I am without a clue.)

(I really need to also add a section in there about explicitly blowing up.
I don't think I've ever thrown f-bombs around as scum freely, aside from some trolling in L4D when I literally claimed scum in-thread once I realized Molla had a guilty on me.
As town, you'll note, I go absolutely ballistic, and for damn fucking good reason. Lynching me has never done a town favors, ESPECIALLY not in the lategame.)

^That's how. ('Course, the flowchart was developed for single-ball games. I actually have no clue myself how well it does or doesn't hold up in multiball.)

(I just realized that an item not on the flowchart but which should be is how I explain my reads:
"Does she explain her reads in crystal clarity?
No-->Almost certainly town, though you can proceed as a precaution just in case.
...Maybe?-->Probably town, but proceed anyway.
Yes-->Proceed.")

Not included: "Is she doing anything?"
Yes-->Well, go read what she's doing, dummy!
No-->She's probably fighting a flake.

Doesn't tell you alignment, but is useful to have on there anyway.

I'm not letting you drop your read there just because there aren't enough scum in this game to fit it.

Well fuck that shit, because that's exactly what I'm doing. You said it yourself. There's only the truth. The truth is there are three scum this game--not four. Therefore, the truth is that if I have four scumreads, one MUST be wrong. This is 100% fact. So if I have four scumreads, what do I do?

Oh yeah. Drop the fourth and only revisit it when I either have upgraded the read...or I have downgraded another read by whatever means. (Most likely a flip.) ThinkBig started as fifth actually, and quickly rose to forth, and stayed at fourth: out of focus, but not out of mind. Yet I can't overlook his scumfuck play and at this point his scumness outweighs Pine's, and Transcend's is still higher than Pine's, and Titus is higher than all fucking three of them.

Pine's not getting a free pass--he's scum if the triple-Ts aren't all scum. But because I feel the scumteam IS most likely to be the triple-Ts, he's not my focus. It's a waste of time and effort to focus attention on someone you don't currently want to lynch. I'll lynch Pine if I have to. If there's no other choice, Pine dies. But he's my fourth preference. To vote him, I have to give up on my first (Titus), second, AND third preferences, all of which are not at all unrealistic lynches at this point so fuck that.

[Titus]

Titus are you the other other scum?

I don't even get this. I'm town.