Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Vecna]

Oh come on, you know I don't do those. Can I just meet you halfway?

I'm meeting you halfway. As always, we'll go in alphabetical order.

Spoiler: Reads

Cloud:

I'm scum reading Cloud because of his discrediting of me and his voting early on. He was hounding the people he voted for in Vecna and Notice early on to acknowledge his votes for them yet he didn't provide any real reasoning for why he was scum reading them. It smelled like scum trying to turn around the perception of his slot by trying to look town. Later on, I've come to find that I haven't liked any of his votes he's casted. They're either with little to no reasoning or for NAI reasons. His focus on Leon bothers me the most because he's just putting Leon in some sort of box and saying you fit without really analyzing any of the motivations of the posts he finds to be textbook scum.

Gork:

I'm scum reading Gork because I town read Creature and I don't see him being the time to gambit like this as scum in this position. I'm also in very much agreement with his theory on this slot being the one to have attempt to kill Night 3.

KidAmn:

My scum read on this slot mostly comes from his predecessor, Yuri. I hate scum reading people based on their predecessor but I was scum reading Yuri hard and I just can't let it go at this point. Sadly, Kid hasn't done anything to redeem the slot. Part of this isn't his fault per say due to the game being 400+ pages and the amount of time to read and properly digest it all will probably take anywhere from 2 weeks to a month but we're at Day 4 now and without a flip. Shit is what it is. I haven't like Kid's interactions with Ali. It felt more like trying to chastise him rather than trying to talk through each point and explain why he should be looking else where.

Maxous:

Probably my second weakest scum read here. I just really don't like how he was sort of role fishing by demanding I build a Wonder today to prove I haven't attempted to build any. He should know as well as I do that there is no way for me to actually prove that I built a Wonder and the Wonders that are available to build today, specifically the neighborhood one, is practically allowing him to confirm me as essentially a mason to scum.

nancy:

This scum read mostly came from your predecessor, Spiffy. I didn't like Spiffy tunneling Bee on outdated meta and the rest of his reasoning for his other scum reads were very weak. I saw him as a potential partner to the Yuri slot because of his constant derailing of the Yuri wagon. Now, what Spiffy has done is peanuts to what you have done. I understand that you play the game very differently than I do. The problem is that is there was a line that you've crossed. At least for me, and maybe for others as well. It's perfectly fine to use meta as a small part of a read but isn't fine to completely clear someone or declare someone as confirmed scum because of not only how hard of a tool it is to actually use, but simply how unreliable it is. VCA, all bias aside, is generally accepted to be a tool to use as a small part of a read, but again not to completely clear someone or to declare someone as confirmed scum. You've used both these tools to consistently give out very strong reads and I think that is more indicative to come from scum than town.

Notice:

Outside of the slip which I've gone over in detail earlier and not going to really bring up now because it will just lead to more noise, there hasn't been much to go off of here. However, there is something indeed strange about them, nancy, and Ali. I don't know if it is due to personal issues or what but it is something that I have in my notes that I felt was worth bringing up here in case one of them do flip scum. Mainly the clear of Ali off a tell. Now I've played various games with Ali and I'm willing to argue that he's much more of a fast learner than people give him credit for. I think there is no real tell for Ali yet but there could be as he gets more time in this site. Other than that, I didn't really like their vote or push on Maxous.

--

As to why I scum read Sondam, I found their read on me fake for reasons that I'm not going to go over right now and their hop on ABR. I don't recall any games of me quick hammering but again, the circumstances.

But then again, this is something he never ever was able to produce as scum.

[Vecna]

help I'm going insane.
Oh wait brb going to case yuri

Hmmmm I think I just realized what you were trying to tell me before. But even then, can you be so sure?

[Nahdia]

Lynch Vote 4.12

Gorkington (7):

Leonshade, Vecna, MathBlade, davesaz, Nero Cain, CloudKicker, Lil Uzi Vert

Leonshade (5):

Brian Skies, NoticeMeSenpai, Gorkington, Alisae, nancy

davesaz (1):

Maxous

Not Voting (3):

KidAmn, Caesar Wills It, Creature

With 16 players alive, it takes 9 to lynch by majority.
Lynch deadline is in (expired on 2017-03-26 13:41:51), at which point at which point we will default to no lynch.

Seeking replacement for Brian Skies.

[Vecna]

Ok here's the thing, no sane scum team would send Glork to do the kill. Not unless they were all in an awful position, anyway, and considering how the game has been going I wouldn't exactly think that'd be true. They would likely know town had the roleblocker by virtue of not having it themselves, and you'd send your most townread in that case given Sondam's flip because there's literally no reason not to. A roleblocker is going to try to not be hitting the townread players because they could have chichen itza or something.

There, reasoning devoid of reads as to why the rb on Glork very likely was not the reason for the no kill. If anything that rb target proves it was a doc protect that stopped the kill.

Anyway, LUV, why are you sure about Vecna being town?

[Vecna]

btw Vecna what's your read on me?

It could literally go both ways. Im highly suspicious of everyone stating your town because of tone/meta. I dont agree with those assesments, because I still feel theyre different here from what ive seen in our past games.

Im not saying it means youre scum, since I havent seen a scum Alisae yet. It means im suspicious. This suspicion is increased because of the way youre continuously townreading NOTICE, while there is no reason for it. You stated Notice is obv-town because of meta, yet I did the full meta-dive and I do not see the resemblance to his usual town-play.

Theres obviously plenty of stuff that works in your benefit as well. However, youre not a townread for me. I believe you'd be able to fake this as scum. Your unwillingness to engage me several times throughout the game when I had very valid questions also really annoyed me.

[Vecna]

like I realize that Nancy/Math/Dave/Gork are all either outright bussing/definding or pushing on each other and me suggesting that they are scum together surely makes me look crazy but not a single one of them have ANY pro-town play and they all have history, well maybe mostly Nancy and Math, as Nancy's connections with Dave/Gork are just screaming that they are mislynches.

Nancy and elbrin had some pro-town play. Elbrin had some good observations about Notice Day1 that vibed very well with mine. I still had this little tingle back then that it couldve been faked though. It seemed almost too well thought out at times, too calculated. Elbrin also kept harping on when I didnt wanna answer a question of his just yet.

[Vecna]

nancy is singel handedly somewhat ruining the game by herself, shes twisting all her reads on a town preflip from what is most likely a mefia

exactly. This is scum being purposely chaotic, not town just being bad.

And in your experience, this is what scum does? Because I really dont think so.

[Vecna]

The way I see it right now:

If Glork flips town, Creature gets lynched tomorrow
If Leon flips town, one of Cloud or Glork get lynched tomorrow
If Ceasar flips town, nothing learned
If Dave flips town, nothing learned
If I'm lynched, nothing is learned

a typical luv scumpost.

Really? Can you link me to any of the games where he played scum and made such comments? Didnt see _ANYTHING_ like it in PYP.

[Vecna]

Why is Leon scum again?

Why is he town?
This is the ultimate question.

Read a bunch of my posts on the topic, I explained it very thoroughly on a number of occasions. I feel I have a pretty solid lock on the type of play that goes on with Luv with both allignments based on this and our past game. The way of thinking and approaching everything, and the way in which he doesnt give a shit about anything this game is completely different in every regard.

[Vecna]

I want to lynch Leonshade because if it flips red then Notice and Caesar are conftown.

What? Why?

Explain this to me, because Leonshade's scumread by Ceasar has felt very artifical along the lines of "I cant only have my vecna scumread for the rest of the game, so ill just scumread a teammate".

[Vecna]

LUV isn't untouchable, but I think there's enough of a chance he's Town that I don't want to lynch it right now.

Furthermore, Notice's most recent post reads to me like "We didn't send Gork to do the nightkill so he's caught for wrong reasons".

Lol.

Yeah this is scum, and was whiteknighting Glork.
There's no way nancy gets this SO FUCKING WRONG as town after everything I've said.

I feel the exact same way, and im town. So I can totally see him getting it like that. And we only have your word to tell us its wrong, but your actions really arent reflecting it very much.

All you do this game is defend a bunch of people. Youre not scumreading anyone or hunting for anyone at all. You dont have a natural progression in scumreads. none that I remember at least.

[Vecna]

Wasn't WWE multiball?

Leonshade is tonally different from all his Town games.

His tone is rather similair as scum and town from what ive seen of his different Iso's. Just as town he's very active to be solving the game, ive been totally missing that so far this game except his day1 and a little of his day2. I was townreading him for quite a long time, since we again had the exact same reads at certain times of the games (and this was the very same in Code Geass where we solved the game together).

[nancy]

Read my posts, I've already covered everything. Preventing a shit lynch from going through with 9 days left to deadline =! creating chaos. Notice & Caesar do not bus, ergo if they push a scum lynch they are not scum. I am the same.

Nancy and elbrin had some pro-town play. Elbrin had some good observations about Notice Day1 that vibed very well with mine. I still had this little tingle back then that it couldve been faked though. It seemed almost too well thought out at times, too calculated. Elbrin also kept harping on when I didnt wanna answer a question of his just yet.

You're going to lynch someone at this stage in the game because of a tingle? Because he pressed you with questions? Seriously? This is a badly-reasoned read, Vecna.

[Nero Cain]

nancy is singel handedly somewhat ruining the game by herself, shes twisting all her reads on a town preflip from what is most likely a mefia

exactly. This is scum being purposely chaotic, not town just being bad.

And in your experience, this is what scum does? Because I really dont think so.

I see 0% town motivation in WIFOMing her reads like that. Chaotic load mouthed scum is a thing. The fact you were in Death Note and you are acting like this doesn't happen seems fake as shit.

[Vecna]

though I might as well post this here....

bought the Civ humble bundle pack so I have spare keys for Civ 3, Civ 5 and Civ 5 Gods and Kings expansion pack.

^^^^
must have steam.

I can pm the key to Nahdia so she doesn't think I'm cheating. She already has the games so she won't steal them.

Dont have civ3 yet, wouldnt mind a key to that.

[Vecna]

Read my posts, I've already covered everything. Preventing a shit lynch from going through with 9 days left to deadline =! creating chaos. Notice & Caesar do not bus, ergo if they push a scum lynch they are not scum. I am the same.

Nancy and elbrin had some pro-town play. Elbrin had some good observations about Notice Day1 that vibed very well with mine. I still had this little tingle back then that it couldve been faked though. It seemed almost too well thought out at times, too calculated. Elbrin also kept harping on when I didnt wanna answer a question of his just yet.

You're going to lynch someone at this stage in the game because of a tingle? Because he pressed you with questions? Seriously? This is a badly-reasoned read, Vecna.

It was answering a point that stated none of them had ANY pro-town play. Im not saying thats the reason I want them lynched, not at all.

[Vecna]

nancy is singel handedly somewhat ruining the game by herself, shes twisting all her reads on a town preflip from what is most likely a mefia

exactly. This is scum being purposely chaotic, not town just being bad.

And in your experience, this is what scum does? Because I really dont think so.

I see 0% town motivation in WIFOMing her reads like that. Chaotic load mouthed scum is a thing. The fact you were in Death Note and you are acting like this doesn't happen seems fake as shit.

Youre mis-understanding my point. scum generally dont reason from this place where they have logic within logic for their actions.

Chaotic loudmouth-scum? Absolutely, they exist in droves.
People that fake reads to test for reactions, and be pissed off about it that we dont understand their way of doing things? Gets done a lot less id say?

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Ok here's the thing, no sane scum team would send Glork to do the kill. Not unless they were all in an awful position, anyway, and considering how the game has been going I wouldn't exactly think that'd be true. They would likely know town had the roleblocker by virtue of not having it themselves, and you'd send your most townread in that case given Sondam's flip because there's literally no reason not to. A roleblocker is going to try to not be hitting the townread players because they could have chichen itza or something.

There, reasoning devoid of reads as to why the rb on Glork very likely was not the reason for the no kill. If anything that rb target proves it was a doc protect that stopped the kill.

Anyway, LUV, why are you sure about Vecna being town?

Yes?

[nancy]

OK.

This is the lynch I want most today.

VOTE: KidAmn

[Nero Cain]

but I don't think Nancy was "faking reads" for reactions.

[Vecna]

@notice; huh seems somehow the text I typed there got eaten along sending it, strange.

It stated something along the lines of; Nonsense, its very plausible, wonders dictate actions most likely for scum.

[Nero Cain]

That Sondam lynch yesterday was pure scumfuckery btw and may have cost Town the game unless we play perfectly from here on out. Sonam was obvtown and his lynch gained nothing by way of information.

this also doesn't track. You didn't have Sondam anywhere near your top town reads yesterday and even if you suddenly started town reading them you didn't do anything to stop the wagon. Even if you want to play the "I'm busy" card that you've been playing lately your site activity says otherwise. I'm fine with lynching Gork today but Nancy is scum and you guys need get off your high horses and sheep me tomorrow.

and this is still a thing.

[nancy]

You don't know shit about my play Nero. Stop fucking wasting your energy on my slot, if you're Town you're just a pure detriment as long as you keep butting your head against your own conf!bias.

[nancy]

I WAS FUCKING ASLEEP WHEN THE QUICKLYNCH HAPPENED AND SONDAM WAS OBVTOWN TO ME

[Vecna]

Nero, maybe youre right - maybe im right.....Im not saying im always correct in these matters but from where im standing I just dont really see scum!Nancy.

We have plenty else to agree on though right?

What do you think of the possibility of Leon + Gork both being scum, seeing how theyve been attacking eachother ever since Creature did his announcement? Like I already predicted creature was gonna out that one of them was the roleblock since there was a very sudden 1v1 going on between the slots where they both started attacking eachother out of nowhere almost.