Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Nero Cain]

I am slightly on the fence about Leon like I realize that that his "Nero doesn't see the game the same way I do!" is pretty fucking stupid and yeah I can buy into the whole "Leon is buddying RC" but IDK....still feels like a Gork counterwagon.

[Nero Cain]

im pretty sure its me you want to maybe lynch.

also this.

[Nero Cain]

but Leon buddying RC applies just as much to Alisae as it does Leon.

[Nero Cain]

vote:Gork

[Nero Cain]

My current townread of him is under the assumption his scumgame hasnt improved tremendously - AND doesnt improve while the number of ingame days grows larger.

If you are basing my game off of Deathnote why would you say this? Even as scum I had much better reads than the town.

[KidAmn]

RC has yet to case me and is instead strong arming. This is his scum game. If it takes my death to see Nancy-RC-Math flips so fucking be it.

Would like to see something to back this up rather than a simple declaration. I agree you're being strongarmed, but not big on Listen And Believe on either side of this argument.

[KidAmn]

Oh dont worry Kidamn, that team isnt dependant on Leonshade - its the cuddly nature between the three other slots that gives me that impression. Leon is merely there because I think Gork/Leon were trying to be forcibly bussing eachother today, and Neon was very opinionated of pushing it towards Gorkington - but maybe youre right and it doesnt make sense to have his bracketed name there.

Not sure you can exactly call me cuddly with Caesar given I have him null at best, unless it's for the shared read on Leon or actions of my predecessor, but that fair.

[Leonshade]

Full disclosure, I was somewhat following and thinking about this game during my absence. I came to the conclusion that while I could trust my locktown, there had to be flaws in my reads. My PoE scumpool made no sense, so I had to have scum in my townreads. Brian Skies was a pretty lynchbaity player, and while I was frustrated that he was being townread for reasons I didn't see at all, most of the players townreading him were in my lock-town list. After that push on Nero, especially if Nero flips scum, RC is almost certainly town here. There would be no reason to bus Nero in this game state.

The big reason for why I've sucked at this game thus far is that my playstyle was thrown off so hard by the huge arguments and in-fighting between Math/Titus, ABR and other townies. I felt like I was constantly either trying to catch up, or trying to convince my lock-town reads to get off each other and onto whomever felt scummy to me, but was being ignored.

I can't remember how my townlean of Nero came about, but Nero being scum here makes so much sense to me. When Math, Creature, nancy and Vecna were all fighting with each other, I was ignoring Nero being part of the discord since all the townies were also contributing to it. But I think there absolutely has to have been scum stirring the shit along with the townies, and Nero is by far the best candidate for that.

Like you said the me math and nancy were all scum so that leaves only like 2 town votes on you?

Nero's AtE and self-vote is really scummy, especially for the above reason. I also hated him responding to my scumread of him with "who will you lynch when I flip town". That's not town trying to convince a townread of his that he's town, that's scum trying to make me doubt my read.

For the people weirded out by my earlier posts about Nero, check my timezone. I was lying in bed between 2-3 AM suffering from insomnia and reading this game, and I had the realization that Nero is scum. I was phoneposting, so a lot of my points were rambling. I was trying to express intuition with words in the heat of the moment. Now that I've had more time to think about that, I'm still confident that Nero is scum.

[Nero Cain]

Would like to see something to back this up rather than a simple declaration.

like what? RC hasn't done anything. But tunnel me on zero reasoning.

[Nero Cain]

What "shit" was I stirring?

[Nero Cain]

Would like to see something to back this up rather than a simple declaration.

like what? RC hasn't done anything. But tunnel me on zero reasoning.

Like here is RC latest town game with me. I was scum in this game too. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=70036

He mentioned a game earlier where RC strong armed my lynch. RC was scum. I'm sure I can find more examples but this appears to be be his scum meta and honestly? Just look beyond meta. What is he doing that has been town?

[Leonshade]

RC strong arming a lynch based on little or no evidence is well within his scum meta.

Also there's a simple BOP here. Nero was good enough to correctly call me scum when I powerlynched him in the NY we played. In this game his scumpool is

and this is manipulative as fuck.

It's also well within his town meta.

P-edit:

What "shit" was I stirring?

Town has been conflicted and in-fighting, and while a big part of that has been due to town egos clashing, you've been part of it all along, causing arguments instead of helping the game be solved.

I don't think you've been scumhunting, I think you've been throwing shade at poorly/weirdly playing townies. A big part that stuck out to me (that I poorly made during the night) was when during D3 you were calling people like Math scummy/bad for being on both mislynches. You're experienced enough to know that mislynches frequently happen, especially on D1/D2. I thought that was a really bad reason for calling them scummy at the time, but I ignored it because I was townleaning you for reasons I don't remember.

I need to go through your ISO to see everything I've been ignoring from you.

[Leonshade]

To answer your question about who's scum if you're town, Nero, if you're not the scum in my townreads, I think one of Vecna/LUV has to be. They're my only strong townreads that aren't 100% locked in. Especially Vecna has been a big part of the town in-fighting. And there has to have been scum stirring the shit to reach this game state.

But my Vecna townread is much stronger than the one I had on you ever was, if they're scum their play has been exceptional.

[Nero Cain]

Notice how as soon as I'm in the scum brigade starts throwing their votes around and trying to develop new wagons while not actually addressing that wagon?

That's not a coincidence.

Like this is ATE-y manipulative stuff. I mean he was

OBVIOUSLY

talking about Creature and Vecna but calling them the "scum brigade" is only being used to garner a response.

[Leonshade]

I've been assuming that everyone who was active and going at each other during D1/D2 was town, that's why I've had so much trouble with this game. That's not how mafia works. There's been coasting scum this game, but I've also had at least one scum in my strong townreads.

Notice how as soon as I'm in the scum brigade starts throwing their votes around and trying to develop new wagons while not actually addressing that wagon?

That's not a coincidence.

Like this is ATE-y manipulative stuff. I mean he was

OBVIOUSLY

talking about Creature and Vecna but calling them the "scum brigade" is only being used to garner a response.

Have you ever played with town!RC before? If you have, I don't buy for a second that you haven't seen town!RC do things exactly like that.

[Nero Cain]

I think one of Vecna/LUV has to be.

There are 5 scum in this game and you have 2 scum reads when I flip town?

"Nero is scum"

"shit guys he flipped town. It has to be one of LUV or Vecna."

"SHIT THEY FLIPPED TOWN SO IT MUST BE THE OTHER ONE"

How convent that scum need exactly 3 mislynches to win. Things that make you go hrmmmmm....

[Nero Cain]

Leon, serious question. What is your stance on VCA?

[Leonshade]

I think one of Vecna/LUV has to be.

There are 5 scum in this game and you have 2 scum reads when I flip town?

"Nero is scum"

"shit guys he flipped town. It has to be one of LUV or Vecna."

"SHIT THEY FLIPPED TOWN SO IT MUST BE THE OTHER ONE"

How convent that scum need exactly 3 mislynches to win. Things that make you go hrmmmmm....

Huuuuuge stretch, at least try to come up with genuine reasons to SR me.

Leon, serious question. What is your stance on VCA?

Zero faith in the kind of VCA Titus or nancy like to do. Coloring in flipped players and your reads can help debunk ridiculous scumteams, I think that's about it.

[Nero Cain]

causing arguments instead of helping the game be solved.

lets just say that I hit scum, don't you think they will fight back? Town will fight back. Scumhunting is going to lead to argumentation and this is something you should understand by now.
Who are the coasting scum?

There's been coasting scum this game, but I've also had at least one scum in my strong townreads.

[Nero Cain]

Huuuuuge stretch, at least try to come up with genuine reasons to SR me.

If I thought you were scum and not just bad I'd of been voting you. Why assume you are getting scumread?

[Leonshade]

Big difference between arguments and being argumentative. I think you've been throwing shade and working to cause arguments, rather than trying to find scum.

I've been trying to find the coasting scum all game, but I don't know who they are. The lurker/coasting pool is

{Caesar, davesaz, Maxous, KidAmn, CloudKicker, Gorkington}

All of those slots either are coasting/lurking, or were doing so D1/D2. Senpai has also been coasting, but he's town because of his hard defense of Creature.

Huuuuuge stretch, at least try to come up with genuine reasons to SR me.

If I thought you were scum and not just bad I'd of been voting you. Why assume you are getting scumread?

If you don't assume I'm scum, why assume that both Vecna and LUV are mislynches? Also, your post was clearly throwing shade on me:

How convent that scum need exactly 3 mislynches to win. Things that make you go hrmmmmm....

If I'm just bad, why is me having two more mislynch reads convenient?

[Leonshade]

"You have the exact amount of misreads to cause a scum win hmmmmm makes you wonder."

"Nah I wasn't throwing shade on you I just called you bad."

Moving the goalposts.

[Nero Cain]

Things that make you go hrmmmmm....

its me thinking about things. I mean scum need exactly 3 mislynches and you going "well ok, there

HAS

to be 1 scum in my town reads" I know that atleast one of those is town and I'm not exactly sold on Vecna and LUV being scum over bad town so I think its more than reasonable to question it.

[Nero Cain]

Why isn't RC in that list of town reads that might be wrong?

[Nero Cain]

talk to me about how my play here is different than WWE.