Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Leonshade]

@Vecna: Why doesn't the fact that my wagon is at best 1/8 scum in your reads make you doubt your reads? If you think I'm scum, why don't you think scum is bussing? I've been the most probable lynch practically all day. If my buddies were being this obvious about staying off/trying to derail my lynch (with a parity cop in play no less), they would be easy pickings after my near-inevitable lynch. And for me, knowing that I'm town, the idea that the entire scumteam is staying off my wagon makes no sense.

...I'm just gonna point this out since I believe it extends to most of the scum team at this point and I feel like this is a fear tactic.

If scum have obviously not bussed (or been able to push through a bus) all game, why in hell do you think I would start now and stay on the wagon? I could have easily springboarded on to Nero or Kid by this stage if I were scum trying to distance from buddy!Leon. This is a fact based on the gamestate.

I'm not scumreading you, so why is this relevant?

Pointing out that if you're scum there's a good reason gamestate-wise that not many scum would be on your wagon.

The point is relevant regardless of having made it about myself. I don't expect scum in this gamestate to suddenly go bus heavy.

If you're town it's a different story, obviously, but I was pointing out why the argument you're making there is a fear tactic to get people to unvote. Town!Leon understands that scum likely aren't bussing here.

If the scumteam was in the proposed {Leon, Creature, Maxous, Ali, RC, Math} pool or similar, while maybe Creature and Math's jumps on me would be suspicious, everyone else could justify jumping on me pretty easily. I don't think it's sensible to say that the scumteam is me plus the majority of the KidAmn wagon. If that was the case, the scumteam would be fucked the second I flip scum.

My statement was not a "fear tactic" to scare people off of my mislynch, it was directed specifically at Vecna's reads. His reads don't make sense to me even from the perspective I'm scum. As town, I know they're garbage.

[nancy]

Why should my read on you be connected to my read on Aslan btw? Am I forgetting something?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I think the problem is that a large part of your reads on some players are meta based.

Some players, yes. But I have tried to explain those as best I can. I feel like the only one I can't put into words perfectly is Alibae.

I can tell. I understand your tell but I don't think it's as good as reading into his tonal difference that he cannot fake as scum.

Imagine if you were extremely unfamiliar with everyone here and had to give out a reads list right now, what reasoning would you give for those you given out meta reads on? If you can't really give an answer than I think you need to reevaluate.

[nancy]

Hey, it's MY tell! MINE!!!!!!!!!!

[nancy]

I shared with Jae only on the condition that they swear it to secrecy.

[JaeReed]

So the answer is you've been too busy? Although you said earlier that you had noticed other people being wagoned but chose not to join.

Wagons iirc were kidamn (unlikely to go through and more likely to be town than Leon) and Nero (which I think isn't likely to go through and Leons vote there put me off entirely).

So yes, I had opportunity to jump off, but no, I didn't have opportunity to walk you through in baby steps why I wasn't doing so.

[nancy]

Still need more data from completed games for it to be 100% foolproof, though.

pedit when did I ask you for baby steps :S

[JaeReed]

Why should my read on you be connected to my read on Aslan btw? Am I forgetting something?

No. You're likely scum so continue like you are and my flip will sentence you to your death.

@Math, Ali, RC, Creature Powerlynch this when I die. Remember this post please.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Mine is better lol. I can't put it into words but it has to do with mainly how he presents his reads and cases.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Lmaooo rip

[nancy]

Why should my read on you be connected to my read on Aslan btw? Am I forgetting something?

No. You're likely scum so continue like you are and my flip will sentence you to your death.

@Math, Ali, RC, Creature Powerlynch this when I die. Remember this post please.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????'

I literally just asked you about my read on you lmfaoooooooo

/sentenced

[nancy]

I'm so confused how that post means that your flip will sentence my death ROFL

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Lolol

[nancy]

Mine is better lol. I can't put it into words but it has to do with mainly how he presents his reads and cases.

Well, reading the slot is entirely different to having a meta tell. I learned how to read Aslan from Pine and Jae and from playing with them, which is why I have them at locktown. The metatell is mostly a tertiary amusement.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I was messing I don't believe in tells

[JaeReed]

I think the problem is that a large part of your reads on some players are meta based.

Some players, yes. But I have tried to explain those as best I can. I feel like the only one I can't put into words perfectly is Alibae.

I can tell. I understand your tell but I don't think it's as good as reading into his tonal difference that he cannot fake as scum.

Imagine if you were extremely unfamiliar with everyone here and had to give out a reads list right now, what reasoning would you give for those you given out meta reads on? If you can't really give an answer than I think you need to reevaluate.

His tonal difference is a part of my read too though. The problem is as you should remember from firework mafia when smith asked me to articulate how I found a player to be tonally different... I can't. Tone is very hard for me to put in to words, so I try to find something I can.

Alisae isn't afraid to make their viewpoint and feelings known to the game. He isn't afraid to make enemies in his attempts at scumhunting and the way he deliberately targeted me early game was townie because we had hydra'd recently and so he would feel as town he could get a good read on me by doing so. He hasn't played like someone who has buddies to protect.

Creature has been putting his thoughts out in the thread as they come to him and has been trying to actively solve the game through PoE, which boils down to a playstyle difference that most people are scumreading him for I think.

My read on you I tried to explain early game and probably did a bad job tbh but it's really hard to explain that properly. If I could just say "gut" and put it down to that while still being entirely honest I would, but that's not what the read is.

It frustrates me to not be able to explain reads properly when I'm asked for them because I often can't explain things perfectly and people keep poking at it and I just can't do what they need all the time.

A common thing with all of these btw is that they seem to be suffering from the apathy I'm struggling against here. To be honest this game just feels like we're waiting to lose and it does kill motivation. LUV giving up for a long time was how I felt, and Creature complaining about people basically not following his reads also, and Alisae sheeping what seems to be a town RC is also relatable (hell I think at one stage I asked Ali to give me a name to sheep on for a scum flip this day phase even). They're mindsets I can understand and have been feeling and so that's another point for them being my alignment imo.

[JaeReed]

I'm so confused how that post means that your flip will sentence my death ROFL

^^^ fishing

[nancy]

{Maxous}


pedit loooooooooooooooooooooool

[JaeReed]

There is literally no way nancy as town doesn't have me in her top two tiers by now. She knows me well enough to know this is my town game.

[nancy]

Here I am fishing for reads.

Fishing for reasonings.

Reeling 'em in.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Jae, that game was like 8 months ago and I don't even count it because I wasn't myself because I was trying a different play style. Expecting me to remember how you played there is

You should read me based on [redacted] when it's over.

Tone is simple and complicated at the same time.

The read you gave me just now on Ali is much better though. It's clear and you can actually point to some things that support it. I think that's what Vecna is looking for in regards to wanting more from you.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Jae, that game was like 8 months ago and I don't even count it because I wasn't myself. I was trying out a different play style. Expecting me to remember how you played there is

You should read me based on [redacted] when it's over.

Tone is simple and complicated at the same time.

The read you gave me just now on Ali is much better though. It's clear and you can actually point to some things that support it. I think that's what Vecna is looking for in regards to wanting more from you.

EBWOP.

[nancy]

Alisae isn't afraid to make their viewpoint and feelings known to the game. He isn't afraid to make enemies in his attempts at scumhunting and the way he deliberately targeted me early game was townie because we had hydra'd recently and so he would feel as town he could get a good read on me by doing so. He hasn't played like someone who has buddies to protect.

Actually LUV these aren't real reasons for town!Aslan. Aslan does the first as either alignment, the second is meaningless and designed solely to reinforce the legitimacy of Aslan's TR of Notice, the third is fake because scum!Aslan is made of bus.

[Nero Cain]

the whole "Nero, CK, Kid must be scum b/c they are town reading each other!" is very very skin deep and it makes very little sense in a 21 players. I'd like the two clowns that are pushing the idea that we are all scum together to plausibly explain who our other two "buddies" are.

[nancy]

A common thing with all of these btw is that they seem to be suffering from the apathy I'm struggling against here. To be honest this game just feels like we're waiting to lose and it does kill motivation. LUV giving up for a long time was how I felt, and Creature complaining about people basically not following his reads also, and Alisae sheeping what seems to be a town RC is also relatable (hell I think at one stage I asked Ali to give me a name to sheep on for a scum flip this day phase even). They're mindsets I can understand and have been feeling and so that's another point for them being my alignment imo.

Obvious scum narrative.