Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[RadiantCowbells]

one twenty-one guns throw up your arms into the sky

[RadiantCowbells]

one twenty-one guns lay down your arms give up the fight

[RadiantCowbells]

one twenty-one guns throw up your arms into the sky you and I

[nancy]

VOTE: Tyler

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh wait there wasn't a hammer wtf. I was just waiting for thread lock

[Lil Uzi Vert]

i could've sworn i hammered lolol

[nancy]

Nah I unvoted, I was trolling y'all

I thought RC knew though

[RadiantCowbells]

another turning point a fork stuck in the road time grabs you by the wrist directs you where to go
so make the best of this test and don't ask why it's not a question but a lesson learned in time
it's something unpredictable but in the end it's right I hope you had the time of your life

[Lil Uzi Vert]

your vote shouldn't have counted though thats why i was saying jokes on you lol

[Lil Uzi Vert]

but i guess nahdia counted it idk why lol

[RadiantCowbells]

I actually thought hammer had gone through

[nancy]

dayvig: Cowbells

[RadiantCowbells]

daymasonize: nancy

[nancy]

Oh shi-

[JaeReed]

Cowvig: daybells

[nancy]

ohhhhhhhh rippp

[Alisae]

JaeReed you are getting very very sleepy. When I snap my fingers you will be under my control. *snaps* you will hammer KidAmn.

[nancy]

Hey that's plagiarism

[RadiantCowbells]

Out of body and out of mind
Kiss the demons out of my dreams
I get the funny feeling that's alriiight
Jimmy says it's better than air

I'll tell you what
Drain the pressure from the swelling
This sensation's overwhelming
Give me a long kiss goodnight
And everything'll be alright
Tell me that I won't feel a thing
So give me novacaine

More novacaine

[RadiantCowbells]

i still propose the entire town just sheeps mathblade the rest of the game and we see what happens

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Spoiler: picking these up

Ok I haven't read the past few pages. rl shit has blown up on me to the point I can only phone post atm.

Nero, I feel like you haven't been reading my posts. I have clearly had scumreads other than vecna. I was on maxous and am currently on Leon. PoE is a valid gamesolving process even if you don't use it yourself.

LUV I would have hooded Ali. But Ali just exited a game with myself them and DEO with hoods where we wrecked shit. That very likely factored in to their position.

I want to respond a lot more than I am right now but I'm having some rl stuff I absolutely need to have take priority, sorry. I'll quote this when I can get on the hydra again.

Ali is never ever ever scum. I will eat a lynch before I let Ali be lynched.

I'd not mind lynching someone for having no reads.

then you should want to lynch the fuck out of Ali and Senpai. But we are doing Leon today.

Why the fuck is everything that comes from you a misrep?

So yes Leonshade, to answer your earlier question (quoted below): if you are scum, I feel the only option of scum on your wagon is Notice.

...lol. This proves that you do not know me at all, and this is a good example of why I keep thinking you're not genuinely trying to solve the game.

If scum have obviously not bussed (or been able to push through a bus) all game, why in hell do you think I would start now and stay on the wagon? I could have easily springboarded on to Nero or Kid by this stage if I were scum trying to distance from buddy!Leon. This is a fact based on the gamestate. Leon's scumflip makes me all but conftown.

So yes Leonshade, to answer your earlier question (quoted below): if you are scum, I feel the only option of scum on your wagon is Notice.

...lol. This proves that you do not know me at all, and this is a good example of why I keep thinking you're not genuinely trying to solve the game.

If scum have obviously not bussed (

or been able to push through a bus

) all game, why in hell do you think I would start now and stay on the wagon? I could have easily springboarded on to Nero or Kid by this stage if I were scum trying to distance from buddy!Leon. This is a fact based on the gamestate. Leon's scumflip makes me all but conftown.

How would you even know they havent bussed? Noone knows this at this point. They very well couldve been bussing without us biting.

Also if you really can still come in here and state shit like "I dont think you've been honestly trying to solve the game" THAN BACK IT UP. I have done about 600+ posts of gamesolving out of my 1200 or however many posts it are, so then show me where im full of shit or dishonest.

YOU CANT. and stating you think someone is posting this freely with all their thoughts out in the open, and doing it in a dishonest way without it being blatant for such a long time is utter horse-shit.

1. Again you don't really read the post. See bolded.
2. I just highlighted that in the VERY post you are responding to. I also dislike the way you pretend as though people aren't pointing that out when they clearly are.

Talk to me about Alisae. Is there any other reason for the townread on the slot except the Yume read? Couldnt they have talked about that in their hydra PT to get rid of it/abuse it?

Not a chance. If you knew Yume you'd feel that too. Plus the meta tell on Alisae that nancy found, and then you add on that this isn't how scum!Alisae plays, especially at the time of the game starting.

Alisae as town has some weird stances but the tone is always genuine. It's hard for me to describe, but I have a very good record of reading Alibae.

Plus I'm fairly sure scum tried to kill Alibae last night and got cockblocked by the doc.

Also Jaereed, I hope you'll actually enter a dialogue about other people with me for once.

This is my prime reason to be suspicious of your slot. Whenever people make some mention of you and why theyre suspicious youre allways very quickly there to point out the inconsistencies (and you do a good job in that).

But I want to have dialogue about our reads - the more interesting stuff.

I'm not really there so quickly. It's all dependent on when things were said and when I read up (for instance stuff at night that I read on my phone I usually wouldn't respond to because it required me switching accounts).

I do feel like I have given you reasons for my reads though. It just gets drowned out in the activity of the thread.

@Vecna: Why doesn't the fact that my wagon is at best 1/8 scum in your reads make you doubt your reads? If you think I'm scum, why don't you think scum is bussing? I've been the most probable lynch practically all day. If my buddies were being this obvious about staying off/trying to derail my lynch (with a parity cop in play no less), they would be easy pickings after my near-inevitable lynch. And for me, knowing that I'm town, the idea that the entire scumteam is staying off my wagon makes no sense.

...I'm just gonna point this out since I believe it extends to most of the scum team at this point and I feel like this is a fear tactic.

If scum have obviously not bussed (or been able to push through a bus) all game, why in hell do you think I would start now and stay on the wagon? I could have easily springboarded on to Nero or Kid by this stage if I were scum trying to distance from buddy!Leon. This is a fact based on the gamestate.

Also Jaereed, I hope you'll actually enter a dialogue about other people with me for once.

This is my prime reason to be suspicious of your slot. Whenever people make some mention of you and why theyre suspicious youre allways very quickly there to point out the inconsistencies (and you do a good job in that).

But I want to have dialogue about our reads - the more interesting stuff.

I'm not really there so quickly. It's all dependent on when things were said and when I read up (for instance stuff at night that I read on my phone I usually wouldn't respond to because it required me switching accounts).

I do feel like I have given you reasons for my reads though. It just gets drowned out in the activity of the thread.

Yeah im not saying you havent, id just like more dialogue to see things from your perspective. I feel youre a crucial part in this whole puzzle since youre a lot more in-tune with reading Alisae/Nancy, and clearly our ideas about the gamestate are different in some areas. And ofcourse theres still that weird thing with the Yuri slot.

It would help to have pointed questions I think. I am honestly not sure what you want from me here because I feel like you're being vague with your requests. You tell me to give more on my reads when I feel I have already explained them, for example.

Like, you can say "do stuff" and I can say "I've been out dancing, picked up my cousin, drank 2 cartons of rum in 2 days..." and then you'll just say "that's not the stuff I wanted" (one of those things is a lie btw but the other two I did do!). I've talked about my Alisae, Math, Creature reads in what I feel to be on repeat and in detail. I talked about RC a bit when I was directly asked about it. I explained my read on your slot and Maxous and why they're tied together. I'm pretty sure I talked about my davesaz read too (tho that might have been in mausoleum instead of here tbf). I've talked about Yuri and about Leon. Like, if you want an answer on how I feel about something I don't get why you don't just

ask

me about it.

@Vecna: Why doesn't the fact that my wagon is at best 1/8 scum in your reads make you doubt your reads? If you think I'm scum, why don't you think scum is bussing? I've been the most probable lynch practically all day. If my buddies were being this obvious about staying off/trying to derail my lynch (with a parity cop in play no less), they would be easy pickings after my near-inevitable lynch. And for me, knowing that I'm town, the idea that the entire scumteam is staying off my wagon makes no sense.

...I'm just gonna point this out since I believe it extends to most of the scum team at this point and I feel like this is a fear tactic.

If scum have obviously not bussed (or been able to push through a bus) all game, why in hell do you think I would start now and stay on the wagon? I could have easily springboarded on to Nero or Kid by this stage if I were scum trying to distance from buddy!Leon. This is a fact based on the gamestate.

I'm not scumreading you, so why is this relevant?

Pointing out that if you're scum there's a good reason gamestate-wise that not many scum would be on your wagon.

The point is relevant regardless of having made it about myself. I don't expect scum in this gamestate to suddenly go bus heavy.

If you're town it's a different story, obviously, but I was pointing out why the argument you're making there is a fear tactic to get people to unvote. Town!Leon understands that scum likely aren't bussing here.

Gorkington sure has convenient timing in vanishing.

I believe this ties in to my previous post about reaching out to players directly if you want something from them if you're town.

I think the problem is that a large part of your reads on some players are meta based.

Some players, yes. But I have tried to explain those as best I can. I feel like the only one I can't put into words perfectly is Alibae.

Notice if you're not 100% sure on this flipping scum why have you been unwavering at pole position?

Are you 100% sure on anyone flipping scum here? If you're going to shade throw then you might as well be fucking explicit about it. You of all people know how fucking floored my RL has been lately, and you know I wasn't even the first one on Leon, I'm just the only person who hasn't moved off.
Also, if you have Alibae as a townread I should be hard town ftr. Your reads are pure bullshit.

So the answer is you've been too busy? Although you said earlier that you had noticed other people being wagoned but chose not to join.

Wagons iirc were kidamn (unlikely to go through and more likely to be town than Leon) and Nero (which I think isn't likely to go through and Leons vote there put me off entirely).

So yes, I had opportunity to jump off, but no, I didn't have opportunity to walk you through in baby steps why I wasn't doing so.

Why should my read on you be connected to my read on Aslan btw? Am I forgetting something?

No. You're likely scum so continue like you are and my flip will sentence you to your death.

@Math, Ali, RC, Creature Powerlynch this when I die. Remember this post please.

I think the problem is that a large part of your reads on some players are meta based.

Some players, yes. But I have tried to explain those as best I can. I feel like the only one I can't put into words perfectly is Alibae.

I can tell. I understand your tell but I don't think it's as good as reading into his tonal difference that he cannot fake as scum.

Imagine if you were extremely unfamiliar with everyone here and had to give out a reads list right now, what reasoning would you give for those you given out meta reads on? If you can't really give an answer than I think you need to reevaluate.

His tonal difference is a part of my read too though. The problem is as you should remember from firework mafia when smith asked me to articulate how I found a player to be tonally different... I can't. Tone is very hard for me to put in to words, so I try to find something I can.

Alisae isn't afraid to make their viewpoint and feelings known to the game. He isn't afraid to make enemies in his attempts at scumhunting and the way he deliberately targeted me early game was townie because we had hydra'd recently and so he would feel as town he could get a good read on me by doing so. He hasn't played like someone who has buddies to protect.

Creature has been putting his thoughts out in the thread as they come to him and has been trying to actively solve the game through PoE, which boils down to a playstyle difference that most people are scumreading him for I think.

My read on you I tried to explain early game and probably did a bad job tbh but it's really hard to explain that properly. If I could just say "gut" and put it down to that while still being entirely honest I would, but that's not what the read is.

It frustrates me to not be able to explain reads properly when I'm asked for them because I often can't explain things perfectly and people keep poking at it and I just can't do what they need all the time.

A common thing with all of these btw is that they seem to be suffering from the apathy I'm struggling against here. To be honest this game just feels like we're waiting to lose and it does kill motivation. LUV giving up for a long time was how I felt, and Creature complaining about people basically not following his reads also, and Alisae sheeping what seems to be a town RC is also relatable (hell I think at one stage I asked Ali to give me a name to sheep on for a scum flip this day phase even). They're mindsets I can understand and have been feeling and so that's another point for them being my alignment imo.

I'm so confused how that post means that your flip will sentence my death ROFL

^^^ fishing

There is literally no way nancy as town doesn't have me in her top two tiers by now. She knows me well enough to know this is my town game.

btw PV I also claimed to have Mausoleum because I think Vecna is town trying to unite the town together and I'm just trying to help out with that.

If you were, who would have been your guests each night?

N1 Titus hydra
N2 JaeReed hydra
N3 Pine/Caesar

what extra info have you gained about each one? like, whats your read on each?

@Jaereed
@Pine/Caesar

Would like to hear your take on the hoods.

Ali tried really hard to breathe some motivation back into me in the hood and wanted me to get my maxous case together. He had some paranoia about math which I pointed out math can't be scum and iirc referenced the game In Memory which we all completed during D1 of this game.

Which In Memory had Alibae in a neighbourhood with The DEO for all those yapping on about how he should have neighborized elsewhere.

Jae what happened to your hydra?

Shit has been hitting the fan irl which makes logging in harder than it should be.

UNVOTE:

@Leon was the way you jumped on, not just that you jumped on.

Put Creature as Town and Maxous as ? for now.

Creature and Max have to be the same alignment unless you are buying into that thing Jae proposed.

What'd they propose?

I think it was like Dave is scum with one of Max/Creature.

I floated a theory. You keep playing this game where you twist my words.

nancy is scum. Kid and Leon both have to be mislynches.

VOTE: nancy

nancy is scum. Kid and Leon both have to be mislynches.

VOTE: nancy

Nope kid is scum. Put your vote back please BaeReed.

I was on Leon before. nancy doesn't bus, therefore every lynch she has tried to achieve today is town. I'd much rather lynch her over town.

A town nancy doesn't spin a fucking narrative on me doing what LUV said Vecna wanted to try to give him something if he's town. A town nancy knows that my read on Aslan is fucking genuine and nancy in this day phase SAID SHE PICKED UP ON WHAT HAPPENED LAST NIGHT BUT DOESN'T HAVE ME AS A TOWN READ AND LATER DENIES KNOWLEDGE.

She's scum guaranteed. A town nancy doesn't scumread me here ever and doesn't float multiball in a

clear

situation where multiball is almost guaranteed to not be a thing.

pedit and now she's forcing the odd night/even night theory that has happened pretty much NEVER. I'm going to double check Undertale for who was pushing that because I'm pretty sure it's a scumtell.

So by confirming that you said this, me asking if Nancy was buying into this is misrepping you how?

You're framing it as though that's what I believe has happened when I said it's a theory. It only means that Maxous or dave flipping scum at one point means I look more at the other.

Like you do this a lot with my posts, I say I don't have STRONG scumreads, and you say I don't have reads, and I'm starting to think it's just coming from scum instead of bad town and RC and Math were right.

nancy is scum. Kid and Leon both have to be mislynches.

VOTE: nancy

Nope kid is scum. Put your vote back please BaeReed.

I was on Leon before. nancy doesn't bus, therefore every lynch she has tried to achieve today is town. I'd much rather lynch her over town.

A town nancy doesn't spin a fucking narrative on me doing what LUV said Vecna wanted to try to give him something if he's town. A town nancy knows that my read on Aslan is fucking genuine and nancy in this day phase SAID SHE PICKED UP ON WHAT HAPPENED LAST NIGHT BUT DOESN'T HAVE ME AS A TOWN READ AND LATER DENIES KNOWLEDGE.

She's scum guaranteed. A town nancy doesn't scumread me here ever and doesn't float multiball in a

clear

situation where multiball is almost guaranteed to not be a thing.

pedit and now she's forcing the odd night/even night theory that has happened pretty much NEVER. I'm going to double check Undertale for who was pushing that because I'm pretty sure it's a scumtell.

I have no idea what happened last night. You shade and attack anyone who questions you. Is arguing that Maxous isn't scum because him being scum would require terrible play or multiball floating multiball? Is this like the scumtell of someone jumping on NKA?

You said coming in to the start of the day that you did, then you realized you didn't, then you adjusted your read, implying you understood.

So by confirming that you said this, me asking if Nancy was buying into this is misrepping you how?

You're framing it as though that's what I believe has happened when I said it's a theory. It only means that Maxous or dave flipping scum at one point means I look more at the other.

Like you do this a lot with my posts, I say I don't have STRONG scumreads, and you say I don't have reads, and I'm starting to think it's just coming from scum instead of bad town and RC and Math were right.

You

DON'T

have reads. Besides the Nancy-scum you are pushing now your main pushes have been Vecna for most of the game, Max (who I think is either town or scum with scum with Creature, in that order) and Leon for most of the day. Maybe you don't like hearing about your play or something but I'm not misrepping you.

Not having STRONG SCUMREADS is not the same as not having READS. I have hard townreads that I will never lynch, which you even commented on at one point. THOSE ARE READS. I can't see you honestly believing that the only reads that matter are super strong scumreads.

Plus earlier you were all on about how I only pushed Vecna. That was provably false because I was on Leon and I was pushing Max when I thought Vecna was town for the way he was pushing Vecna. I was pushing nancy when she pulled that shit saying Ali was scum.

I didn't understand :/

You can't link me to posts or anything?

You have like 7 pages of ISO and you actually know I'm busy today and every weekend so no. Not to mention if you're scum it's downright fucking detrimental of me to do so.

Alisae < I would rather lynch a person claiming a guilty on this than ever lynch this
Creature, Math, LUV, Caesar Wills It, RadiantCowbells < All obvtown and I would rather no lynch than lynch any of these
Gorkington, Cloudkicker < Townish with some doubts. With Gork I want to spend some time asking specific questions that I haven't gotten around to because I feel like he has the same problem as I do in that he doesn't know wtf people actually want from him, and with CK I think ssbm did an ssbm specific towntell
KidAmn < More likely to be town for how the D1 wagon played out I think
Vecna < On probation, preferably I want him and RC parity copped
davesaz, Maxous < Mechanically these are the same alignment, I think. If Vecna is town Maxous is scum though, and davesaz with the lurking didn't exactly endear himself to me but Math thinks dave is town so idunno and the outing of the wonder was townish I think because it's stressful thinking you might get nked and not knowing if your results will be lost, but also it's possible he's just scum that knows he won't be nightkilled and is trying to off chance if the vig doesn't shoot math make it so he's not the target?
Nero Cain, Leonshade < If we had more time I would actually want to sort this more given the latest bouts of posting from both of them. I do not think they are the same alignment.
nancy < talked about this recently

Ok I'm trying to work out how to do this Math, sorry if I mess it up. My partner originally thought we needed to watch out for backstabbers due to experience with those who might be prone to that in history. Last night I held hands with a red haired child as he crossed the street, and some people I think were going to bully him but couldn't because I was there. Today I'm so hungry that I was thinking I might go for a steak but I wasn't sure whether it was better to not since I actually don't really like meat, and while I dislike 50 shades of grey on principle I thought maybe I should read it tonight for posterity's sake, but I kinda wanted your thoughts on that?

I'm pretty sure you understand how my reads have been colored this game so if I die before you can you please out that information for me? If nancy's scum like I think then I think I'm fucked and guaranteed to be dead because I pushed on her too soon. Please do not ever let Ali be lynched, and help RC see scum!nancy is the highest probability if I die, don't let them get out of NKA on that. At this stage I think scum has Hanging Gardens or the vig wasn't picked up, unless someone is playing the waiting game as town on it, or scum have the vig and are waiting to endgame with it, which is also possible.

I can't see you honestly believing that the only reads that matter are super strong scumreads.

TBH, I do think they matter more than town reads. 1.) There are always going to more more town in a game than scum. So someone could just randomly assign town reads to various slots in a game and be mostly correct. This is why I think ppl that "town hunt" are largely full of shit. 2.) Scum already know who town are...and scum can't hunt their own.

TBH, I did only skim. I didn't even read but I think its a fair accusation that you've had a lack of reads and you've stuck to mainly tunneling Vecna and Max with a side of Leon today and now Nancy I guess. I guess you could nitpick my word choice at times but I think its plenty fair to be squinty eyed at you.

Then your issues with me are playstyle related. I don't think town hunting is invalid at all. It's a strong tool to use in mafia.

I pushed nancy earlier than just recently. I find a lot of things you do to be disingenuous.

For instance:
Saying being anti-town = scum, then self-voting, one of the most anti-town things to do, and whining that people don't believe your AtE. This is hypocritical at best and some really bad cog diss at worst.
Saying I don't have reads when it's provably false < your explanation for this seems to be that townreads don't count as reads and weaker scumreads don't count as reads, and associative reads don't count as reads.... So by your reasoning there RC must be conftown for his tunnel on you because he had a strong scumread coming in to the game...?
You used the excuse that you don't want to listen to the people who were on 3 mislynches up til now, and then when I pointed out that I wasn't you didn't re-evaluate on that at all, just said you mixed me up with someone else and then...nothing. Still to this day.

Wagons iirc were kidamn (unlikely to go through and more likely to be town than Leon)

Why do you townread him more than me? He's at L-3 and I'm at L-2, why is he unlikely to go through? What do you think are the reasons behind it being unlikely to go through?

Nero (which I think isn't likely to go through and Leons vote there put me off entirely).

Why would you be scared off a read based on one read? Are you that confident in your SR on me?

A common thing with all of these btw is that they seem to be suffering from the apathy I'm struggling against here. To be honest this game just feels like we're waiting to lose and it does kill motivation. LUV giving up for a long time was how I felt, and Creature complaining about people basically not following his reads also, and Alisae sheeping what seems to be a town RC is also relatable (hell I think at one stage I asked Ali to give me a name to sheep on for a scum flip this day phase even). They're mindsets I can understand and have been feeling and so that's another point for them being my alignment imo.

Those are not the only players who have suffered from apathy. How do you feel about my apathy D3/earlier D4?

1) The D1 Yuri wagon, I've gone over this before. I didn't realize he was so close tbh.
2) The way you jumped on Nero was awful. Retcon doesn't fix that.
3) Tbh I read it as you lurking the moment Vecna got suspicious of you, which is more strategic than apathetic. I don't feel true apathy from you.

Why is Math's and Leon's

aTe

genuine but not mine or Kids?

Yeah I'm getting nightkilled tonight

I WILL PROTECT YOU

kill this.

I'm not doc obviously btw that was a joke.

a really bad one.

I think if you want to read BDSM during the night please do it with someone you trust. Are you sure the child is a child? Like I understand some of it but some of that makes my brain hurt. If you are NK'd I promise to reread everything you did.

Pedit: Aslan is not scum nancy. Points for trying but get your vote back on Kid.

urgh sorry. I'm no good at this.
I don't want to eat steak if I can't watch taskmaster on tv because of it.
The child is more a child at heart, likes to read The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe.

pedit Vecna and one of the obvtowns please. nancy/alisae is an ok check but Vecna is the one i really struggle with. can do nancy/ali later.

no Jae you didn't fucking vote Nero with me and you're half of the reason we lynched kid today. Nero/nancy end story.

What?

I NEVER FUCKING VOTED KID CAN YOU STOP BEING A FUCKING ASSHOLE TO SPECIFICALLY ME?

Cowvig: daybells

Thanks Nahdia for allowing that. I should be back with a bit more laptop access now.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

maybe if i played drunk the rest of the way

[nancy]

They're tunneled on me though :/

[RadiantCowbells]

that's why I want a nero/nancy check

win win

[nancy]

I guess I'll hammer. Does anyone want to say things beforehand?