Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Leonshade]

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY OBJECTIONS TO THIS PLAN?[/size][/b]

Yes. Stop rolefishing.

Rolefishing ceases to be relevant when

A) We could lose the game today
B) Almost everyone has claimed

Why did you claim, if you object to rolefishing at this point?

[Leonshade]

Pretty sure scum would want to keep their options open too so I doubt they took Palace just to frame Pine.

The Forbidden Palace also has a scum utility (blocking Wonder building). That plus avoiding an IC would be a pretty good reason to take it.

Otherwise I think you're pretty on-point with your Wonder ideas. So scum has one, at most two slots open.

Davesaz, are you waiting for instructions in the scumchat or something?

Cmon man, out those targets already.

I'm waiting to see what my targets say, in particular if they guess they were targets. I think there are now 8 pages I haven't read, and it's dinner time.

You had me in your scumreads and my lynch didn't go through, did you go with me/Cloud? Alternatively me/Gork?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Cloud, please stop lying to stroke your ego. I've only misread you once and that was in the game that Shadow modded. If you're counting Hogwarts, you're the idiot that had Not Mafia as town. You can't blame someone for scum reading you for that. I've caught you as scum with Gerry and suspected you as traitor in another game in which you turned out to be one. This is part of why you're being scum read. You're falsely remembering past games trying to discredit because you believe you're somehow better than me. I didn't think scum would stoop that low but here we are now

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I refuse to believe scum are blocking.

I'm VT.

[Leonshade]

- Leon who 180d on me when he tried to buddy me by saying that i was in a better position in his reads, then started scumreading me hard when i didnt reciprocate his pockething attempt, his non explanining of his 180 is the scumtell and that its heavily inconsistent

You went from scum to null, back to scum. I was willing to reconsider your slot because my scumread wasn't that strong, but at this point I have too many townreads and no real reason to townread you.

Like the only people I'm not TRing are you, Leon, Nero, LUV

What was with the "RC is powerbussing" thing if you TR him, just a joke or did you change your mind? Why are you TRing Gorkington?

[Vecna]

RC gives zero fucks that he's being scumread. He knows that my lynch ends the game.

He cannot know this, since there could very well be town players that take that vig.

[Leonshade]

Oh yeah add RC to the scumpile.

Nevermind on the last question.

Interesting that Maxous flipped with the Wonder info. Either scum doesn't have the Janitor wonder, or they didn't want to use that player for the kill for some reason.

Though honestly, scum might have just gone "fuck it" to the Janitor wonder, it's a pretty middling ability in this game.

1)

Feels fake. "I couldn't possibly be scum because I have no idea why Maxous would flip with wonder info"

I regret doubting myself because of your AtE yesterday.

Vecna or maybe they were doctor hunting?
He was hanging low for the majority of yesterday.

That was also my thought, it's the Occam's razor explanation (since essentially making Creature conftown would be a pretty bad play otherwise).

2)

If this was your thought, why didn't you voice it instead of piggybacking off of Ali? This smells of buddying.

1) Why do you think a townie wouldn't write the same thing?

2) Day had just started at that point. I didn't see the flip and immediately have the idea, I thought about it while discussing other things. Ali expressed the idea when the conversation turned to the motivation behind the kill, so I voiced my agreement.

It's a factional ability.
pedit: Creats is conftown.

No he's not.

Creature is town by play, and only scum if davesaz (or you) are scum with him.

This is a MASSIVE walk back from his previous read of Creature.

I've townread him since Day One, what's the walk back?

[Vecna]

First things first; Nancy - In case you built the RedFort: you would have received a visit from me if creature lied about roleblocking me. I used my wonder to make it appear to the tracker (who is dead) that you visited SantaClause (well at least I did untill the mod had to ruin the fun. Just as a longshot to verify whether creature rb'd me.

Is that even how it works? Wouldn't it only show to be visiting the tracker then because his results are the one you're messing with? Like going into a cop's desk and fucking with their papers, you're not actually going to the other person they're getting the report in?

Would have been better to choose Red Fort to make a result of you visiting them?

If nancy has the red fort, she should not see a visit from me, IF creature RB'd me. The idea was to hope to identify the red fort to check if creature really did roleblock me. If nancy doesnt have it, it doesnt matter regardless.

[Vecna]

Like, how did scum even know that Maxous had the doctor? Because I sure had no goddamn clue, and I feel that this kill is totally not wonder-related unless I missed another subtle hint somewhere.

There's been a LOT of claims, and Maxous's lurking fits the profile of a doctor. Though I do agree that he's still an odd kill, not the first one I would make if I was doc hunting.

Stretching this logic to its conclusion, maybe many of the claimed VTs are telling the truth, and scum is in some of the other lurkers who could fit the profile of a doctor?

And here it is, Vecna.

If you're town this is exactly what I was talking about, and I need you to seriously consider the implications of this.

What, that Leonshade is highly likely scum? Yeah that totally hadnt crossed my mind yet

[Vecna]

Alright, so I just read Maxous Iso........And it does appear that him doc'ing on Ceasar is a very likely option of what happened.

Scum picking up on him softing that he saved their Nightkill is obviously also a rather good explenation why they figured it out.

btw, NANCY - you could try to build for the PALACE today as another safeguard. We can still try to build it due to the earlier resolution, so if Pine is lying you should get it np.

Nets us a guaranteed scum lynch + IC for tomorrow if pine is lying, if its not the case all that happens is you lose prio for the next day. Thoughts?

[Vecna]

Why all this trouble to set up ceasar though...

It might very well also be that Scum picked up on Maxous saying he doc-saved just to try and clear Ceasar through him not getting the palace things.

Plenty of scenarios that could have occured.

[Leonshade]

In this situation, scum decided to kill Maxous. Maxous was a bold kill due to the result with Creature. So why was he chosen, if scum was trying to PR hunt, over CloudKicker, Gorkington, Senpai and nancy? nancy's been pretty loud all game, so she's a safe choice to not be doctor. Meanwhile CK, Gorkington and Senpai's slots have been much more laid back all game, and would all be good candidates for a doc hunt kill.

Conclusion: there's scum in {CK, Gork, Senpai}. I was scumreading CK anyway, but it wouldn't surprise me for there to be at least two scum here. With two/three scum in CK/Gork/Senpai, Maxous being a doc would be a pretty obvious conclusion for scum to draw.

Maxous asked to be trusted on Pine, said he thought it was a doc protect, TR me, lurked a lot.

Like, he even said Maxous was a decent doc candidate then goes and makes this post. It's gross.

I didn't read Maxous's ISO before making that post, I was going purely off of claims. Maxous was a decent doc candidate, but not the only one. If his ISO makes it that obvious that he's the doc, my point is moot, but there's no reason to assume I'm scum because of it.

The idea that Maxous was a manipulative kill is really hard for me to believe. Even if Creature is somehow scum with davesaz or Vecna, killing Maxous for the sake of read manipulation or confusion wouldn't be worth it. If Creature + one other is scum, it's better to keep Maxous alive to either keep suspicion off the scum, or keep suspicion on Maxous.

So Maxous being killed as a result of doc hunting makes sense, and I think scum had a really good grasp on who the doc was due to the claims plus scum member PoE.

^ good post, allthough you couldve made it as scum as well. but keep em coming and I might start showing you some more love again.

Theres something more going on though........But I probably really shouldnt speculate on that.

I think I got what you meant there btw Alisae - with you not wanting to discuss it.

Really not a good post. It was obvious who Parthenon was yesterday if you bothered to read the game at all.

If it was that obvious, I didn't know it. I think I know who you're talking about now, but I didn't know beforehand.

Great Wall was the only ascetic Wonder IIRC, so roleblocker it is.

I also feel like a town!Leon would have recognized the fakeclaim there for what it was. RC does that shit all the time to try to avoid being nightkilled.

Caveat being if he hasn't really played with RC it's NAI, it's just a really quick conclusion to jump to here I think, just assuming that RC didn't lie about being basically 1s bp as a player with an ego and a history of being nightkilled? Hell, as a player who said multiple times last day phase he was dead that night, even.

I have one finished game with RC, Spyro the Dragon. I did have the thought that RC might be fakeclaiming to avoid being NK'd, but he hadn't come clean by that point in D5 so I worked under the assumption he was telling the truth.

I know you were scumreading me before, but most of your points look like confbias. You're assuming that I'm trying to set up a mislynch instead of gamesolving, and you're assuming that I noticed the same things you did (Maxous being obvdoc, the identity of Parthenon) when I didn't. Assume that I'm town who didn't notice those things, does it look improbable that I would come to my conclusions? Both Vecna and CK generally agreed with my reasoning and nobody called me out on the same faults you did, so it's clear that the things obvious to you weren't obvious to many others.

[Vecna]

The maxous thing wasnt that supe obvious btw. He merely stated; "Pine is town, trust me on this please".

Much more likely to be picked up on by scum if Pine was indeed their intended NK that night.

[Leonshade]

RC seems to have the best grasp of the gamestate out of anyone. He's correctly townreading me, considered it likely that KidAmn would flip town and largely sees the same things I do when it comes to townreads.

This is also the one reason I'm paranoid about his slot. He could be abusing his informed position to tell the truth about things A, B and C to get a mislynch at D.

But outside the paranoia, I'm townreading him. And at this point it's really hard for me to imagine a scumteam that includes RC, but includes neither Nero nor CK. So even in the situation that RC is scum, I think he's doing what Ali claims and bussing his buddy on replacement. And if RC is town, I think he just has really good reads and I'm willing to trust him here. Nero and CK are the lynches I'm willing to go for today.

VOTE: Nero

[Vecna]

The problem is; If Ali/Notice/Nancy are all telling the truth and town, the next step is going to be pretty ugly if Nero is indeed scum.

[Vecna]

Btw people, dont forget about that brandenburg gate wonder....that is some pretty nice town utility right there.

If scum do go for that bolshoi theater (doubtfull they even still ahve space for it, but who knows) - it has pretty decent odds of just stopping it outright.

[Nero Cain]

But outside the paranoia, I'm townreading him. And at this point it's really hard for me to imagine a scumteam that includes RC, but includes neither Nero nor CK. So even in the situation that RC is scum, I think he's doing what Ali claims and bussing his buddy on replacement. And if RC is town, I think he just has really good reads and I'm willing to trust him here. Nero and CK are the lynches I'm willing to go for today.

RC reads have been junk. His proposed scum team was all town. It had no thought to it as he was pushing me me/Dave team that was totally ignoring the fact that Dave was hard pushed by me the the day before. He was looking for lynchables not scum. I know none of this will phase you since you are scum but yea...

[Nahdia]

Lynch Vote 5.02

Nero Cain (4):

RadiantCowbells, Vecna, Alisae, Leonshade

nancy (2):

Nero Cain, CloudKicker

CloudKicker (1):

Lil Uzi Vert

Not Voting (7):

MathBlade, Gorkington, Creature, Caesar Wills It, davesaz, NoticeMeSenpai, nancy

With 14 players alive, it takes 8 to lynch by majority.
Lynch deadline is in (expired on 2017-04-10 14:55:00), at which point we will default to no lynch.

Industrial Era Wonders & Resolution

[Nero Cain]

while the people you're claiming are my buddies could've hammered me

If they are your buddies they won't necessarily hammer you.

As have most everyone else. As are multiple town players in every mafia game ever. How is this relevant?

I don't really feel like "town are going to be on the mislynches too so totally ignore me, Nancy and Ali being on 3 of them!" is any sort of valid defense.

If you are town my reads would change, just like your reads didn't change when Kid flipped town.

[Nero Cain]

You should probably put that counter-wagon on RC, Nero - if you want it to have any traction whatsoever.

Luv and Math won't do RC and I'm not looking for counterwagons, if I was I'd be going after CK. I'm going after scum.

There's 570 pages Vecna. Is the best you have really "Ceasar is town reading him so he must be scum!"? Why did I leap frog Leon?

[Lil Uzi Vert]

VOTE: nancy

Competing wagons!

[MathBlade]

Alisae - Halicarnassus D1 unlikely scum do this and I find it very protown to try to help with what was going on with me and Titus.
Nero Cain
MathBlade - me. ObvTown
Leonshade - With Dave myself and Maxous off the wagon it is very likely that mathematically confirmed not scum need to double check this.
Gorkington
Creature - confTown because Dave
RadiantCowbells - because Drixx
Caesar Wills It -- Need to reread Maxous's ISO here to see if Maxous said trust me please on that. I think Vecna and nancy may have scumslipped that they used their second shot on Caesar and nancy shot Maxous making this not MyLO. It was a theory I have been considering that Spiffeh did not shoot me if scum.
Lil Uzi Vert
Vecna
CloudKicker
davesaz -- ConfTown
NoticeMeSenpai -- Obvious crumbs as to what they are.
nancy

so the entire scum team has to be in Nero, Gorkington, LUV, Vecna, CK, and nancy

[Nero Cain]

Aslan I am trusting you on Caesar

Isn't it a little disingenuous to trust that Ceaser is town but not willing to trust Ceaser that I'm town?

[Nero Cain]

I. AM. NOT. SCUM. MATH

[MathBlade]

Aslan I am trusting you on Caesar

Isn't it a little disingenuous to trust that Ceaser is town but not willing to trust Ceaser that I'm town?

Garcia-ing No it isn't.

Town doesn't mean right reads. Otherwise every dead townie would have their reads sheeped.

It just means actively not trying to deceive you.