Umlaut's Micro Normal

[mykonian]

I think the first is more to my liking, and closer to what we've talked about so far. I'd be fine with that.

[callforjudgement]

The last setup there is within acceptable swing ranges (albeit still a bit swingy), but I think it's scumsided. (Town has one usable Watcher shot, and one usable Jailkeeper shot. I'd put that a little below the amount of power I'd expect town to have in a Micro, especially if the Ninja decides to use their ability D1; mathematically they should in an unknown setup but I don't expect most players to realise that.) I don't think setup spec saves town either (especially if the Goon claims late in a massclaim and has the presence of mind to claim Tracker, but probably even if that doesn't happen).

The first setup is really clever; limiting the Jailkeeper to two shots means that the night action timing works out almost perfectly to reduce the chance of a blowout (although it can't entirely eliminate it). I think it might be townsided, though it's an unusual enough setup that I don't have much to compare it to.

[Firebringer]

The last setup there is within acceptable swing ranges (albeit still a bit swingy), but I think it's scumsided. (Town has one usable Watcher shot, and one usable Jailkeeper shot. I'd put that a little below the amount of power I'd expect town to have in a Micro, especially if the Ninja decides to use their ability D1; mathematically they should in an unknown setup but I don't expect most players to realise that.) I don't think setup spec saves town either (especially if the Goon claims late in a massclaim and has the presence of mind to claim Tracker, but probably even if that doesn't happen).

It wasn't meant to be "1 shot Watcher" just Watcher with no limitations.
Since the ninja can escape one possible guilty, thought having just 1 shot Jailkeeper was enough against the Ninja who escapes a possible guilty.

[Firebringer]

2 Shot Watcher
1 shot Jailkeeper
5 VTs
1 shot Ninja
1 Goon

This is also probably good.

[Umlaut]

Watcher
2 shot Jailkeeper
5 VTs
1 shot Strongman Goon
1 Goon

Wait, is this saying two 1-shot jailkeepers, or one 2-shot jailkeeper?

Either way, I'll take it. I mean, it's pretty far from the intent of my original setup ("the scum have to decide which powerful ability to counter each night"), but it seems like there's no way to make that work without giving scum too much power, so I'm willing to just do something else for now and go back to the drawing board with that idea.

If it's slightly townsided as mykonian suggested, would turning the goon into a backup strongman be an improvement?

[Umlaut]

Derp, or I could just count the slots. Of course it's one 2-shot jailkeeper.

[Firebringer]

Watcher
2 shot Jailkeeper
5 VTs
1 shot Strongman Goon
1 Goon

Wait, is this saying two 1-shot jailkeepers, or one 2-shot jailkeeper?

Either way, I'll take it. I mean, it's pretty far from the intent of my original setup ("the scum have to decide which powerful ability to counter each night"), but it seems like there's no way to make that work without giving scum too much power, so I'm willing to just do something else for now and go back to the drawing board with that idea.

If it's slightly townsided as mykonian suggested, would turning the goon into a backup strongman be an improvement?

Its 2 shot Jailkeeper
And I think we could do Back up strongman.

[mykonian]

If it's slightly townsided as mykonian suggested

It'd be between 50 and 55%, well within reasonable bounds.

I'd be quite happy with that setup. Should we go on to role PM's and get this show on the road?

[Umlaut]

I'll have the revised role PMS up ASAP (which is probably in a few hours).

[callforjudgement]

It wasn't meant to be "1 shot Watcher" just Watcher with no limitations.
Since the ninja can escape one possible guilty, thought having just 1 shot Jailkeeper was enough against the Ninja who escapes a possible guilty.

There are multiple shots, but only one is usable; one of the N1 or N2 shots will work to full effect, but the other one will be blocked by the Ninja, and any N3 shot has the issue that it comes so late in the game that scum can just 1v1 you if you get a guilty (if you're even alive at that point), and you'll probably just be NKed anyway.

Post 29 setup is good, I think. Town should realise that they have so much power that there must be a scum power role specifically to counter them. I'd prefer it without the Backup Strongman, just because that raises the issue of town thinking "oh, the Strongman is dead, I doubt scum have another". I agree that it's on the townsided side, but that mostly comes from skew rather than a natural imbalance (there are scenarios where town runs away with the game very early, and if that doesn't happen the game is balanced).

If the townsidedness is concerning, it might be worth giving scum a Backup Watcher, basically as a hint that there's a Watcher in the game (the role isn't that useful in this setup because its information comes too late to be useful). That should reduce the chance that, after one scum being caught early, the other one makes an obvious kill and gets caught by the Watcher. Alternatively, if you want to adjust the balance rather than the skew, making one of the VTs Ascetic would give scum a "safe" but unaimed kill (if the Ascetic claimed; they often do), because the JK wouldn't be able to save them and the Watcher wouldn't be able to watch them; it wouldn't have much of an influence in most cases but would crank down the townsidedness slightly. That said, I think the setup is already reasonable as is.

[Firebringer]

I approve either of those setups I mentioned.

[Umlaut]

Revised setup:
1x

Mafia 1-Shot Strongman

1x

Mafia Goon

1x

Town Watcher

1x

Town 2-Shot Jailkeeper

5x

Vanilla Townie

Role PMS:

Spoiler: Mafia 1-Shot Strongman

You are a

Mafia 1-Shot Strongman

!

Your partner is #NAME, a

Mafia Goon

.

Win Condition

You win when half or more of living players are Mafia.

Abilities

• You and your partner share a private thread in which you can talk and strategize during the pregame and night phases.
  
• Every night, either you or your partner may carry out a kill on one player.
  
• During one night of your choice, if you are carrying out a kill, you may choose to
  strongman
  the kill, in which case it cannot be stopped by blocking or protective effects.

Spoiler: Mafia Goon

You are a

Mafia Goon

!

Your partner is #NAME, a

Mafia 1-Shot Strongman

.

Win Condition

You win when half or more of living players are Mafia.

Abilities

• You and your partner share a private thread in which you can talk and strategize during the pregame and night phases.
  
• Every night, either you or your partner may carry out a kill on one player.

Spoiler: Watcher

You are a

Town Watcher

!

Win Condition

You win when all living players are Town.

Abilities

• Every night you may choose one player to
  watch,
  thus discovering who if anyone targeted that player during the night.

Spoiler: 1-Shot Jailkeeper

You are a

Town 1-Shot Jailkeeper

!

Win Condition

You win when all living players are Town.

Abilities

• During one night of your choice, you may choose a player to
  jail
  . That player cannot target or be targeted by anyone during that night.

Spoiler: Vanilla Townie

You are a

Vanilla Townie

!

Win Condition

You win when all living players are Town.

Abilities

You have no special abilities. Your weapons are your voice and your vote.

One question about interactions: my understanding is that if a player is prevented from targeting someone, the watcher will not see his target visited by that player, but it's probably worth confirming that here before I proceed.

[callforjudgement]

The rules aren't completely clear on how a Watcher + Jailkeeper interaction works, but I believe that interaction is the correct one for Normals (a roleblocked/jailkept action never happens, so Trackers and Watchers can't see it). I'd also like to remind you that if the Jailkeeper targets the Watcher, the Watcher will become aware that their night action failed (rather than being told they saw nothing).

I'm assuming the words "a private thread" in the scum role PMs will be an actual link to the PT when you send them.
The biggest mistake in the role PMs is that you've given the 2-shot JK a 1-shot Alien PM. You probably need to fix both those mistakes. (A Normal Jailkeeper protects a player from being

killed

, not from being targeted.)

Other than the things I've mentioned above, the role PMs look good, and I'd be willing to approve the setup when these issues are fixed.

[Umlaut]

Oh, sorry.

Spoiler: 2-Shot Jailkeeper (this time not totally wrong)

You are a

Town 2-Shot Jailkeeper

!

Win Condition

You win when all living players are Town.

Abilities

• During two nights of your choice, you may choose a player to
  jail
  . That player will be unable to target anyone and will be protected from kills for that night.

[Firebringer]

Approved with Fire

[callforjudgement]

/approve

[mykonian]

/happy!

Good luck Umlaut!

[Nexus]

have let radja know. good luck.

[Umlaut]

For completeness' sake, here is the actual role distribution (determined by random.org):

• ThinkBig,
  Vanilla Townie
  
  
• Lil Uzi Vert,
  Town 2-Shot Jailkeeper
  
  
• Sobolev Space,
  Vanilla Townie
  
  
• Maxous,
  Mafia Goon
  
  
• temphdq,
  Mafia 1-Shot Strongman
  
  
• Tenshii,
  Town Watcher
  
  
• Hiraki,
  Vanilla Townie
  
  
• schadd_,
  Vanilla Townie
  
  
• Aj The Epic,
  Vanilla Townie

[Umlaut]

[redacted]

[Umlaut]

Wait no, someone delete that post before this thread goes public and contact me by PM if you want to comment on that.