Creature's Large Normal Review

Nexus · Post Post #0 (ISO) » Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:03 am

Creature wrote:21 players

Town One-Guilty Cop
Town 2-shot Vigilante
Town Neighbor Weak Vigilante
Town Non-Consecutive Doctor
Town Innocent Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town

Mafia Gunsmith
Mafia Rolestopper
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon
Mafia Jailkeeper Traitor

Spoiler: Vanilla Town
Vanilla TownieWelcome, X. You are a
Vanilla Townie
.

You have no special abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Spoiler: Town One-Guilty Cop
Town One-Guilty CopWelcome, X. You are a
Town One-Guilty Cop
.

You may target one player per night phase. You'll receive one of these results:
Innocent
,
Guilty
or
No result
. As soon you receive a
Guilty
result, you'll stop functioning.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Spoiler: Town 2-shot Vigilante
Town 2-shot VigilanteWelcome, X. You are a
Town 2-shot Vigilante
.

Twice per game, you may target one player to nightkill.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Spoiler: Town Neighbor Weak Vigilante
Town Neighbor Weak VigilanteWelcome, X. You are a
Town Neighbor Weak Vigilante
.

Each night, you may target one player to nightkill. However, if you target non-town, you'll die. You may also talk in your neighborhood during day and night.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Spoiler: Town Non-Consecutive Doctor
Town Non-Consecutive DoctorWelcome, X. You are a
Town Non-Consecutive Doctor
.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills during that night phase. However, if you use your action one night, you may not use your action the next night. You cannot target yourself.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Spoiler: Town Innocent Neighbor
Town Innocent NeighborWelcome, X. You are a
Town Innocent Neighbor
.

You may talk in your neighborhood during day and night. At any time, you may choose to confirm yourself as town to your neighbors.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Spoiler: Town Neighbor
Town NeighborWelcome, X. You are a
Town Neighbor
.

You may talk in your neighborhood during day and night.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Spoiler: Mafia Goon
Mafia GoonWelcome, X. You are a
Mafia Goon
.

Your partners are Y, who is a
Mafia Gunsmith
, Z, who is a
Mafia Rolestopper
, and W, who is a
Mafia Goon
[/red].

You share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk during day and night.

You know there's a traitor around.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

Spoiler: Mafia Gunsmith
Mafia GunsmithWelcome, X. You are a
Mafia Gunsmith
.

Your partners are Y, who is a
Mafia Rolestopper
, Z, who is a
Mafia Goon
, and W, who is a
Mafia Goon
[/red].

You may target one player per night phase. You'll receive one of these results:
Positive
,
Negative
or
No result
. You'll get
Positive
if you target Groupscum (except Traitors and Doctors), Cops, Vigilantes, Gunsmiths, Role Cops, Vanilla Cops, Backups of roles with guns and JoATs that have any of these listed powers.

You share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk during day and night.

You know there's a traitor around.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

Spoiler: Mafia Rolestopper
Mafia RoleblockerWelcome, X. You are a
Mafia Rolestopper
.

Your partners are Y, who is a
Mafia Rolestopper
, Z, who is a
Mafia Goon
, and W, who is a
Mafia Goon
[/red].

You may target one player per night. Anyone who targets this player will be prevented from performing their action. You cannot target yourself.

You share a factional kill each night. You must choose which of you will commit the kill. You may commit the kill and perform a roleblock in the same night phase. You also share a factional PT, located here, where you may talk during night phases only.

You know there's a traitor around.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

Spoiler: Mafia Jailkeeper Traitor
Mafia Jailkeeper TraitorWelcome, X. You are a
Mafia Rolestopper
.

You know your partners are Y, who is a
Mafia Rolestopper
, Z, who is a
Mafia Goon
, W, who is a
Mafia Goon
, and V, who is a
Mafia Goon
. However, they don't know you are aligned with them.

You may target one player per night phase. This player will be protected from kills and be prevented from using their own action, if they have one, during that night phase. You cannot target yourself.

If you are the last scum member alive, you lose.

You win when the Town has been eliminated, or nothing can stop this from occurring.

Notes:
Town One-Guilty Cop will only stop functioning if it gets a guilty result. Even if it targets scum, a "no result" result won't count.

Town 2-shot Vigilante won't be refunded shots if its action fails.

Town Neighbor Weak Vigilante will die if it targets scum and isn't stopped. If rolestopped, it won't die. If jailkept, it won't die. If target jailkept, it will die. If target doctored, it will die.

Town Innocent Neighbor can't be roleblocked at all.

Mafia Gunsmith will get positive on Town One-Guilty Cop, Town 2-shot Vigilante, Town Neighbor Weak Vigilante and on anyone from the mafia team (besides the traitor).

Mafia Rolestopper may rolestop their own factional kills. AKA Mafia Rolestopper + Mafia Factional Kill on the same target = Fail.

If Mafia Rolestopper is targeted by Mafia Jailkeeper Traitor, it'll be roleblocked anyway. If Mafia Jailkeeper Traitor targets Rolestopper target, its action will be rolestopped.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #1 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:45 pm

putting this in my thingy

Empking · Post Post #2 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:36 pm

We need to see roles.

Obviously, both the one-guilty Cop and so is the Innocent Neighbour are your grey-lists. I don't think either are shocking in a normal, although I think the latter role PM should explain the mechanics of how he confirms himself.

Just based on 5 vs 16, I feel like the set up is awfully scum-sided (although yes, one of them is a Traitor. I would suggest straight up removing a Goon, although perhaps one of the other two has an alternative perspective.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #3 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:49 pm

it is very scum sided yeah. I don't have any immediate tips to fix it atm.

Creature · Post Post #4 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:12 pm

Btw, my original setup also included a Town Odd-Night Neapolitan and a Town 2-shot Bulletproof besides Tow Non-Consecutive Doctor being Town Non-Consecutive Target Doctor.

ISO · Post Post #5 (ISO) » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:55 pm

To be honest, the game gets a lot less swingy if you just remove the traitor. The scum have the rolestopper and the gunsmith: a decent investigative for this game (which works as a nice safeclaim), and a decent protective for this game (which also works as a nice safeclaim). Four members in a 20-player game is still reasonable. The town's vig and cop shut down when targeting scum, which is a neat self-balancing mechanism. The neighborhood is reasonably strong if they realize it is all town and don't out it. If you lose the mafia traitor, then I'd probably consider the game good once given the rules.

Creature · Post Post #6 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:04 am

Remove the traitor and replace it with a Vanilla Town?

Empking · Post Post #7 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:20 am

I agree with Mastina.

In post 6, Creature wrote:Remove the traitor and replace it with a Vanilla Town?

I doubt it makes much difference between that and just going to one player fewer.

Creature · Post Post #8 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 5:29 am

Okay, 20-player it is then.

Btw, do you review rules? I think some of them are good looking at.

Empking · Post Post #9 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:09 am

In post 8, Creature wrote:Okay, 20-player it is then.

Btw, do you review rules?

We do.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #10 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:15 am

with a doc and all the vigs it probably doesn't matter whether it starts on odds or evens

Creature · Post Post #11 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:17 am

Creature wrote:Opening post:

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A.P. Players Status Role Death

5
Alive

5
Alive

5
Alive

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5
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5
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5
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Spoiler: Events

Rules:

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Do:

Follow the site rules here.

Play to win.

Be respectful.

Be active.

If you have questions about your role, ask them by PM.

Don't:

Don't discuss ongoing games.

Don't copy, quote or screenshot your role PM, mod communications or anything that isn't public.

Don't pretend to break the rules.

Don't use very small, invisible or encrypted text.

Don't use shades of blue.

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Deadlines

Day 1 will last 14 (real life) days. While all subsequent days will last 10 (real life) days.

Nights will last 2 (real life) days.

Night may end earlier if every single alive player requests to end the night.

If you don't submit your night action, I'll take that as a no action.

I'll only extend the deadline if it's about to end and I need replacements.

Voting

All votes must be done with vote tags. Bolded votes won't be counted.

You may also vote nolynch.

A majority is reached if more than half the players have voted the same player/nolynch.

If the deadline ends, the player (nolynch included) with the highest number of votes will be lynched. If there's a tie, the first player to have reached that number of votes will be lynched. If no player got higher than 2 votes, the day will end in a nolynch.
P.S.: I won't edit your posts.

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Activity Points

This game uses Activity Points mechanism, based on callforjudgement's Timepoint mechanism.

Every player starts with 5 activity points. 5 activity points is the maxium ammount of activity points you can have.

If you don't post for 48 hours, you lose 2 activity points.

If you don't post for 72 hours (24 hours after prod), I'll start searching your replacement and you'll lose one additional activity point.

If you hit 0 activity points, you're going to be force-replaced.

When the dayphase ends, if you haven't been prodded, you'll gain 3 activity points. Otherwise you'll only gain one.

Calling V/LA

V/LAs must be called by PM and must be specified.

Not-Real Deal (NRD) V/LAs:
Little less posting than usual. Your prod time will be extended to 72 hours (24 will stay the same). Every 3 days will cost one activity point.

Real Deal (RD) V/LAs:
Near to zero posting. You won't be prodded at all until your time ends. The activity points cost will be (days-2)/2 rounded down.

You may also consider replacing out.
Note: You may replace back to your slot, as long your activity points didn't go down to 0.

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Daytalk is active.

This game uses plurality lynch mechanism.

This game has the potential to be swingy.

Spoiler: Sample Vanilla Town Role PM
Vanilla TownieWelcome, X. You are a
Vanilla Townie
.

You have no special abilities.

You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

I'd like this reviewed for normalcy.
At balance, just make sure it isn't notably favorable for a side.
I don't mind this game being swingy. (maybe I should tell that this game has a potential of being swingy)
I don't have backup mods yet.

I changed it a bit. (Including taking away one slot)

Creature · Post Post #12 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:20 am

21 players

Town One-Guilty Cop
Town 2-shot Vigilante
Town Neighbor Weak Vigilante
Town Non-Consecutive Doctor
Town Innocent Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town

Mafia Gunsmith
Mafia Rolestopper
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

Spoiler: Vanilla Town

Spoiler: Town One-Guilty Cop

Spoiler: Town 2-shot Vigilante

Spoiler: Town Neighbor Weak Vigilante

Spoiler: Town Non-Consecutive Doctor

Spoiler: Town Innocent Neighbor

Spoiler: Town Neighbor

Spoiler: Mafia Goon

Spoiler: Mafia Gunsmith

Spoiler: Mafia Rolestopper

Notes:

Town One-Guilty Cop will only stop functioning if it gets a guilty result. Even if it targets scum, a "no result" result won't count.
Town 2-shot Vigilante won't be refunded shots if its action fails.
Town Neighbor Weak Vigilante will die if it targets scum and isn't stopped. If rolestopped, it won't die. If target doctored, it will die.
Town Innocent Neighbor can't be roleblocked at all.
Mafia Gunsmith will get positive on Town One-Guilty Cop, Town 2-shot Vigilante, Town Neighbor Weak Vigilante and on anyone from the mafia team.
Mafia Rolestopper may rolestop their own factional kills. AKA Mafia Rolestopper + Mafia Factional Kill on the same target = Fail.

Creature · Post Post #13 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:20 am

*20 players

Creature · Post Post #14 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:24 am

I'm planning to announce this game in the Upcoming Games thread.

What info should I disclose?

I have so far:
Daytalk is active.
Plurality lynch mechanism.

I'm wondering if I should put:
Potential to be swingy

I don't really want to say the alignment distribution, I want to feed the possibility of there being an SK or it being multiball.

ISO · Post Post #15 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:06 am

All votes must be done with vote tags. Bolded votes won't be counted.

I hate this rule by the way.
Many players use bolded votes exclusively; others use a mixture of both. They were the only way to vote until someone manually coded in the vote tags, so literally everyone who joined prior to 2010 or so (I forget exactly when they were implemented) uses bold, not vote tags. You will receive a lot of grief with this rule--including voting shenanigans that you should really not encourage in your game.

Don't use shades of blue.

This rule also concerns me, since shades of blue are frequently used in things such as VCA as a very nifty alternative to green. (For instance, to mark PRs instead of VTs, or to mark alive conftown rather than dead town.)

I also don't think the Activity Points mechanism is a Normal mechanic; that looks like it has an actual effect on the game which is more theme-like.

As for plurality: I am okay with the idea of plurality in a large normal. I do take issue with the exact wording of the rule, however.

If the deadline ends, the player (nolynch included) with the highest number of votes will be lynched. If there's a tie, the first player to have reached that number of votes will be lynched. If no player got higher than 2 votes, the day will end in a nolynch.

By this system, a player who was at five votes going down to four, when there was a player at four votes, will not be lynched; the player who was at four votes will be lynched even though the player who was at five votes had the higher vote total. This system also fails to account for a simultaneous tie: what if there was a five-man wagon and a three-man wagon, and a player on the five-man wagon switched to the four-man wagon? In that case, both wagons have held four votes for an exactly identical period of time.

I would suggest instead you emphasize: "If there's a tie, the player who held the higher vote total most recently will be lynched". So in this case, if there was a 5-man wagon and a 3-man wagon and the 3-man wagon became a 5-man wagon, the first 5-man wagon would be lynched (which I believe is your intention); if that same 5-man wagon loses one vote and the 3-man wagon gains a vote, the formerly 5-man wagon is lynched.

I also would drop the 2 votes clause from plurality. If you want plurality, you should consistently enforce it across the whole game. Don't give players an out.

(This would be why we review rules.)

Creature · Post Post #16 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:09 am

I can allow bolded votes as long it isn't in the middle of a sentence.

Creature · Post Post #17 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:10 am

And if someone drops a vote, they still count as "reached the number of votes first"

Creature · Post Post #18 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:13 am

How would you word the no shades of blue rule? It uses more than one shade of blue.

Maybe make: "Don't post posts entirely blue"?

Creature · Post Post #19 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:17 am

I got an alternative for Activity Points:

The first time you are prodded, you'll get a warning. If after 24 hours you don't post, I'll search for your replacement.
If you're prodded twice in the same day (barring D1), I'll straight out force-replace you.
Being prodded three times mean automatically force-replace.
If you're not prodded for two entirely dayphases, you'll have one prod discounted from your total.
Calling V/LA: Prods after 72 hours without posting rather than 48 hours. Please, don't abuse V/LAs.

Creature · Post Post #20 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:18 am

In post 15, mastina wrote:"If there's a tie, the player who held the higher vote total most recently will be lynched"

Seems fine.

ISO · Post Post #21 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:18 am

Final role notes:
-Have an answer ready for any and all possible kill-stopping actions; just because the roles aren't in the game doesn't mean you won't be asked about them.
For instance: "Would a protective role stop one kill, or all kills?" (By your chosen wording, it's "all".)
A protective PR (Doctor/Jailkeeper/Bodyguard/Rolestopper) targeting an X-shot bulletproof; which has priority? (That being, does the vest trigger first, or does the protective PR override the vest?)
Protective PR loops. (As in, how you would resolve Doctor/Bodyguard or Bodyguard/Rolestopper cross-protections.)

-Remember that your non-Normal roles will need to be flipped in full.

-Your mafia PMs have some broken tags somewhere (likely a missing [/b]), but otherwise look good, save this detail:

Anyone who targets this player will be prevented from performing their action.

Nitpick, but the rolestop doesn't prevent them from actioning. It causes their action to fail. This difference in wording has importance for the sake of any theoretical tracker (even though you don't have one), and far more relevant, holds importance for X-shot roles. (Preventing an action from happening implies the x-shot role is prevented from using the shot, thereby refunding it; causing an action to fail implies the x-shot role attempts to use the shot yet has it fail.)

Creature · Post Post #22 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:18 am

Though, say a player is at 4 votes and another player gets put to 4 votes, wouldn't it be confusing?

Creature · Post Post #23 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:23 am

Spoiler: Mafia Rolestopper

Creature · Post Post #24 (ISO) » Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:44 am

20 players

Town One-Guilty Cop
Town 2-shot Vigilante
Town Neighbor Weak Vigilante
Town Non-Consecutive Doctor
Town Innocent Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Town Neighbor
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town

Mafia Gunsmith
Mafia Rolestopper
Mafia Goon
Mafia Goon

Spoiler: Vanilla Town

Spoiler: Town One-Guilty Cop

Spoiler: Town 2-shot Vigilante

Spoiler: Town Neighbor Weak Vigilante

Spoiler: Town Non-Consecutive Doctor

Spoiler: Town Innocent Neighbor

Spoiler: Town Neighbor

Spoiler: Mafia Goon

Spoiler: Mafia Gunsmith

Spoiler: Mafia Rolestopper

Notes:

Town One-Guilty Cop will only stop functioning if it gets a guilty result. Even if it targets scum, a "no result" result won't count.
Town 2-shot Vigilante won't be refunded shots if its action fails.
Town Neighbor Weak Vigilante will die if it targets scum and isn't stopped. If rolestopped, it won't die. If target doctored, it will die.
Town Innocent Neighbor can't be roleblocked at all.
Mafia Gunsmith will get positive on Town One-Guilty Cop, Town 2-shot Vigilante, Town Neighbor Weak Vigilante and on anyone from the mafia team.
Mafia Rolestopper may rolestop their own factional kills. AKA Mafia Rolestopper + Mafia Factional Kill on the same target = Fail.

A.P.	Players	Status	Role	Death
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive
5		Alive