Civilization Mafia [GAME OVER]

[Vecna]

Notice can you confirm you role. I have questions while you have time.

Parthenon, didn't try to build anything else.

I wanted Petra but mastina told me to take Parthenon instead.
N2 Protected Caesar (mastina prodded me towards this one)
N3 Protected Alisae (had obvious crumbs about being neighborizer and In Memory we brutalized scum with the use of neighbourhoods)
N4 Protected dave (outed parity cop, was between him or RC for wifom)

Ok thank you.

So talk to me about what is more likely here.....

Did scum kill Maxous because Ceasar is scum (so we'd find the obvious crumb that he protected ceasar)......

Or did scum kill Maxous to hide the fact he protected Ceasar, and that they tried to kill ceasar, and are they now trying to frame him by taking the forbidden palace?

You tell me. You're the one trying to push a false dichotomy and seem hyperfocused on Caesar. Why? Why do you think the nightkill had anything to do with Caesar rather than just getting rid of the docs?

Im not trying to push anything, im trying to figure out what happened. You also need to stop viewing my actions from a scum perspective, ive granted you the same courtesy.

[Vecna]

Vecna what are major stumbling blocks you have toward your plan?

Theyve all been mentioned before. Its just trying to maximize wonder gain, information gain - and trying to do it in such a way that even if scum have the forbidden palace, they can only block one.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

My issue at this point is that I'm running out of potential scum slots.

I honestly am starting to think it's not impossible that Peregrine is actually scum

I know how you feel, but its still rather possible for there to be a scumteam without him.

Leon/Nero/Dave/CK/Ceasar

Makes complete sense with everything.

In fact, id totally expect this group of people to be the type NOT to pick up daychat since theyre all little ego-maniacs ( ) that want all-star wonders.

That would explain why they had to pick up the great zimbabwe later. And why Nancy is now in the shitter.

Leon's jump on Nero when RC replaced in wasn't scumbuddies.

[NoticeMeSenpai]

Notice can you confirm you role. I have questions while you have time.

Parthenon, didn't try to build anything else.

I wanted Petra but mastina told me to take Parthenon instead.
N2 Protected Caesar (mastina prodded me towards this one)
N3 Protected Alisae (had obvious crumbs about being neighborizer and In Memory we brutalized scum with the use of neighbourhoods)
N4 Protected dave (outed parity cop, was between him or RC for wifom)

Ok thank you.

So talk to me about what is more likely here.....

Did scum kill Maxous because Ceasar is scum (so we'd find the obvious crumb that he protected ceasar)......

Or did scum kill Maxous to hide the fact he protected Ceasar, and that they tried to kill ceasar, and are they now trying to frame him by taking the forbidden palace?

You tell me. You're the one trying to push a false dichotomy and seem hyperfocused on Caesar. Why? Why do you think the nightkill had anything to do with Caesar rather than just getting rid of the docs?

Im not trying to push anything, im trying to figure out what happened. You also need to stop viewing my actions from a scum perspective, ive granted you the same courtesy.

I think scum are just picking off the docs so they can kill dave.

[Vecna]

Vecna what are major stumbling blocks you have toward your plan?

The only important question is how much we prioritize on the vig wonder.

Trying to get this in town hands 100% will compromise a lot on the other goals.

Im wondering how much we need to dedicate to this, since im not totally certain anymore that anyone has the day2 vig (and if they do, it might even look like scum could be full by now)

Lets count:

day2 vig
Daychat / Zimbabwe (just not gonna think theyd ever get it double)
Great wall / Leaning tower

(Treestump)
(Chichen Itza)
(Forbidden Palace)

From my POV at least 1 out of those 3 bracketed needs to be in scum hands. so its -possible- they still have the day2 vig AND a free slot, but not very plausible.

[Vecna]

I don't think you need daychat to stop wagons on scum and I don't think that scum have been wagoned a lot.

Lynch Nero with me leave nancy alone and you have my vote tomorrow. Deal?

I promise to poke questions at nancy to try to reevaluate my read of her and hammer Nero as promised so we get a plan from Vecna and can tweak it as needed. Deal?

This sounds like the right direction.

Now just to hope my "off the deep end" suspicion of RC + Nancy isnt correct.

I really dont think it is, but its a suspicious that is gnawing at me regardless.

At any rate, Nero's consistent play where he has shown time and time again he's not actually reading the game or any of my posts - and his returned scumread of me, makes me all the more willing to lynch his ass.


----------------

Bonus thought; If nero and Davesaz are scum together, then why on earth does Davesaz state he visited Nancy + Nero?

[Vecna]

I'm not going to follow you on nancy and I'm going to do my best to prevent any such wagon.

What about my slot?

[nancy]

I think scum are just picking off the docs so they can kill dave.

No need when they can just roleblock him.

[Vecna]

What are our claims so far? Who didn't claim besides scumslots?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

[MathBlade]

Vecna what are major stumbling blocks you have toward your plan?

The only important question is how much we prioritize on the vig wonder.

Trying to get this in town hands 100% will compromise a lot on the other goals.

Im wondering how much we need to dedicate to this, since im not totally certain anymore that anyone has the day2 vig (and if they do, it might even look like scum could be full by now)

Lets count:

day2 vig
Daychat / Zimbabwe (just not gonna think theyd ever get it double)
Great wall / Leaning tower

(Treestump)
(Chichen Itza)
(Forbidden Palace)

From my POV at least 1 out of those 3 bracketed needs to be in scum hands. so its -possible- they still have the day2 vig AND a free slot, but not very plausible.

I think you are going about this the wrong way.

Even assuming worse case scenario scum day2vig + nancy scum (as that is the only way dat2vig is a thing most likely)

After lynch today scum are not bound to follow the plan.

What needs to happen is accountability not attempts to force.

This was the main problem in Thing Mafia. It is a slight but clear distinction.

[Vecna]

I can review this but it makes much more sense Vecna+LUV together.

However assume I am wrong and only one is scum. Which?

Vecna.

Try and reason it the other way (not that I think this is at all possible).

What if ive been wrong about it all along. If luv is scum, does that make me scum by default?

I think I did? I don't think you and LUV could be scum together because I don't think LUV would allow you to meta clear him like that and draw that associate. Not without taking the chance to distance off it, at least. If LUV is scum (ass backwards as that would make my reads) then I don't think you are scum with him.

Excellent. And yes, were both town.

[MathBlade]

I don't think you need daychat to stop wagons on scum and I don't think that scum have been wagoned a lot.

Lynch Nero with me leave nancy alone and you have my vote tomorrow. Deal?

I promise to poke questions at nancy to try to reevaluate my read of her and hammer Nero as promised so we get a plan from Vecna and can tweak it as needed. Deal?

This sounds like the right direction.

Now just to hope my "off the deep end" suspicion of RC + Nancy isnt correct.

I really dont think it is, but its a suspicious that is gnawing at me regardless.

At any rate, Nero's consistent play where he has shown time and time again he's not actually reading the game or any of my posts - and his returned scumread of me, makes me all the more willing to lynch his ass.


----------------

Bonus thought; If nero and Davesaz are scum together, then why on earth does Davesaz state he visited Nancy + Nero?

Dave isn't scum lol

[Vecna]

LUV if you want to prove that you're Town you should get Big Ben and cop someone for a guilty.

Were following the plan today.

Everyone is getting assignments. Faillure to follow them is grounds for insta-lynch tomorrow.

Its forthcoming shortly.

[nancy]

What are our claims so far? Who didn't claim besides scumslots?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

That is fucking beautiful.

[Vecna]

Again Vecna how is the plan coming? Will it be ready tomorrow ? Three days?

I ask not to rush but an ETA. I also want to analyze what you are thinking more.

Today, somewhere after my lunch time. It wont be long.

[Vecna]

OK. But to be frank I'd rather follow RC's plans.

It isn't about whether you'd follow it.

It is about analyzing Vecna's thoughts and keeping it to its promise.

He needs to sell us a plan.

Also I appreciate the opportunity and the fact youre being open minded about this.

Improvement Mathblade, improvement.

[MathBlade]

In Thing Mafia for example it was usually done "If players ABC aren't in X room player Y is scum"

Lynch all plan breakers

And "what was supposed to happen didn't so you're scum"

That type of plan IMHO is bad.

What works is a lot of smaller groupings.

Through the smaller groupings we get smaller one v ones. Similar to nancy and Caesar.

If scum fuck with one one v one they have to fuck with another.

The idea is an untenable situation of 1v1s

Not a mass collision.

[MathBlade]

What are our claims so far? Who didn't claim besides scumslots?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

That is fucking beautiful.

I has sads how you think google drive is beautiful but I build bbcode program in excel and nope

[Vecna]

Man I've thought about it but my read here outweighs any setup spec. I once copped someone and still knew that they were scum and outed with my result saying that they were godfather and they were in fact godfather.

I still think it's more likely some really weird shit happened wrt scum strategy than that I am misreading nancy here.

I feel the same way. I just dont want to believe anyone is this sick-good as scum to fake their play.

[nancy]

What are our claims so far? Who didn't claim besides scumslots?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

That is fucking beautiful.

I has sads how you think google drive is beautiful but I build bbcode program in excel and nope

I never saw your excel!

[MathBlade]

LUV if you want to prove that you're Town you should get Big Ben and cop someone for a guilty.

Were following the plan today.

Everyone is getting assignments. Faillure to follow them is grounds for insta-lynch tomorrow.

Its forthcoming shortly.

Threats like this give scum easy room to breathe in.

Because then scum fuck with one domino of a Not town read Player and then it all comes apart.

Instead 1v1s and buy in make a plan.

Stop threatening. CK and Cloud already didn't respond to that.

So we have no guarantee they will give two fucks about your plan.

That has to be accounted for.

[nancy]

What did I tell you guys. What did I fucking say when LUV says it's gg. Town is going to win this goddamn game. There is no fucking way we can lose with this many locktowns.

[Vecna]

Doing a fake replace out does not a cocky scum make.

That was genuine frustration.

I'm saying cocky scum would announce the wonder they built and do all the large colorful writing shit that you're doing. /That/ is cocky (regardless of alignment, mind, I do think your play is the embodiment of cocky).

I believe LUV is just guessing on the mindframe of scum rather than actually knowing it. Or idunno, maybe I'm wrong and LUV is right that scum feel cocky right now. Cocky scum would most likely fit with you though, no? Or nightkilling PV I guess after stealing Drixx's self janitor treestump and not claiming to get copped. I'm trying to point out to LUV that if he's right in scum feeling cocky then I believe a townread is misplaced.

I often get called cocky, so I can see where youre coming from. The same applies as town though.

And you can ask Alisae that I followed the exact same approach in Code geass. Identify how to solve the game and flush out the scum, and convince everyone to follow my plan. That is how I do it as town.

My scumgame is very different from it. This is also the reason why Titus/Luv/Gorkington/Alisae all have started to hard townread me at some point or another. And why im shocked still that Mathblade is seeing it differently.

Anyways ill get to work on this plan now to convince Math and push for a town win.

[Vecna]

My issue at this point is that I'm running out of potential scum slots.

I honestly am starting to think it's not impossible that Peregrine is actually scum

I know how you feel, but its still rather possible for there to be a scumteam without him.

Leon/Nero/Dave/CK/Ceasar

Makes complete sense with everything.

In fact, id totally expect this group of people to be the type NOT to pick up daychat since theyre all little ego-maniacs ( ) that want all-star wonders.

That would explain why they had to pick up the great zimbabwe later. And why Nancy is now in the shitter.

No it doesn't.

It doesn't explain Dave giving us two conf towns needlessly.

Cmon Vecna you were closer then this ....

*sigh*

But it does Math, it does.

Theyre ego-maniacs, so they give us the two least contributing members as town-clears.

In their minds, it is vastly worth it; they had to deny that wonder to town, and theyre thinking theyre going to endgame us in a flawless game. So they prefer to give us two townclears in return to wifom-townclear Davesaz.

[MathBlade]

My issue at this point is that I'm running out of potential scum slots.

I honestly am starting to think it's not impossible that Peregrine is actually scum

I know how you feel, but its still rather possible for there to be a scumteam without him.

Leon/Nero/Dave/CK/Ceasar

Makes complete sense with everything.

In fact, id totally expect this group of people to be the type NOT to pick up daychat since theyre all little ego-maniacs ( ) that want all-star wonders.

That would explain why they had to pick up the great zimbabwe later. And why Nancy is now in the shitter.

No it doesn't.

It doesn't explain Dave giving us two conf towns needlessly.

Cmon Vecna you were closer then this ....

*sigh*

But it does Math, it does.

Theyre ego-maniacs, so they give us the two least contributing members as town-clears.

In their minds, it is vastly worth it; they had to deny that wonder to town, and theyre thinking theyre going to endgame us in a flawless game. So they prefer to give us two townclears in return to wifom-townclear Davesaz.

Maxous is a known game breaker and a hard town read of mine for a long while.

If Alisae ever swung back to me I would have asked them next.