Open 676 - Jungle Republic (Game Over)

[Sesq]

o yea and as for who scum is, i don't know anymore

[Dunnstral]

I think I believe that chronicle is scum.

[Sesq]

why

[Dunnstral]

[Sesq]

why

[Lil Uzi Vert]

WHY ARE PEOPLE SCUMREADING UZI

(also im still agreein with the plan)

ISo me and you will see plenty of reasons.
Now, give me a read list with some reasons. No questions, or pretending to be stupid, just some reads.

The only real reason you've given is meta which you're basing off of 1 game....

[PantherPunt]

Don't do anything til you here from me on everyone. I was way busier than expected yday (and devoted some time to another game offsite... :sheepish:) and today probably can't dive in for about 7 hours.

[PantherPunt]

hear*

dear fucking goodness that one makes me want to go punish myself

[PantherPunt]

and that's a joke, in case any of you are the kind to worry about that. (I may be if I saw someone else)

[mozamis]

i can at least see why you scumread me although you're wrong

self conscious. trying too hard. town don't do this. Town say "eff off,I'm not scum, how can you even think that, I'm so town"!
scum.

Uzi or sesq first?

[mozamis]

o yea and as for who scum is, i don't know anymore

you've been saying this all game. You're approach is "keep pretending to be vague and ignorant, that looks town". Nope, by now town DO have reads and opinions (although they may be wrong).
Sesq is scum.

[mozamis]

The only real reason you've given is meta which you're basing off of 1 game....

If people bother to look at that game it IS a powerful reason since you are playing so differently.
But the other main reason is - like Sesq- you consistently dont give out reads. You never look like you want to get anyone lynched.
You were both on the Hawk wagon yesterday which was LOL. He was never going to get lynched. Neither of you tried to get him lynched either.
Sesq and Uzi are def. scum.

[mozamis]

I'm guessing Panther will say vote sesq.
@ Hawk and Dunn - you guys up for voting Sesq?
I'm assuming Hawk is, he has been suspecting Sesq all game.

[Hawk]

I am but the last thing I want is us walking to a Sesq Lynch bait scenario. So id rather have everyone's reads first.

Also I think would prefer Sesq to Uzi first because I'm still not sold that Uzi is scum but I haven't played with scum Uzi so while his play does feel off I can't just attribute that to scum Uzi Moz :/.

Uzi can you link me a scum game of yours? preferably a recent one??

[BTD6_maker]

Day 4 VC 3

Not Voting: mozamis, Sesq, Hawk, Chronicle, Darklyn, PantherPunt, Lil Uzi Vert

Deadline is in (expired on 2017-04-29 12:00:00)

Chronicle has been prodded.

With 7 players, it's 4 to lynch!

[Lil Uzi Vert]

The only real reason you've given is meta which you're basing off of 1 game....

If people bother to look at that game it IS a powerful reason since you are playing so differently.
But the other main reason is - like Sesq- you consistently dont give out reads. You never look like you want to get anyone lynched.
You were both on the Hawk wagon yesterday which was LOL. He was never going to get lynched. Neither of you tried to get him lynched either.
Sesq and Uzi are def. scum.

My reads are always given out. Just not a form that you like. Whoever I'm voting for, I believe is scum.

I don't see how you've reached the conclusion that I'm not looking to get anyone lynched which is a weird phrase in itself. I'm looking for scum, not for lynches, which is why I seriously thought Creature's disinterest came from town. I subbed in close to deadline and voted a scum read of mine in Revan but since then I pushed for Hamm. and Hawk.

Your last point sounds like something you've cheaply tacked on. Yesterday I was scum with Creature and now since he flipped wolf, it's now I wasn't on his wagon yesterday so I must be scum despite the efforts I did make to show why I believe Hawk was Hamm's partner.

Again, you're just portraying things to fit a narrative to the point where I just can't possibly see coming from town.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I am but the last thing I want is us walking to a Sesq Lynch bait scenario. So id rather have everyone's reads first.

Also I think would prefer Sesq to Uzi first because I'm still not sold that Uzi is scum but I haven't played with scum Uzi so while his play does feel off I can't just attribute that to scum Uzi Moz :/.

Uzi can you link me a scum game of yours? preferably a recent one??

Sure.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=70799

I was a werewolf but I still think it counts. If not, I can provide another.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Sesq, talk to me about Hawk's aggressiveness. Do you really believe it's scummy? If so, what do you think he's been hoping to gain? Have you considered a world where it's possible that this is just another side of him you're not familiar with?

[Sesq]

i can at least see why you scumread me although you're wrong

self conscious. trying too hard. town don't do this. Town say "eff off,I'm not scum, how can you even think that, I'm so town"!
scum.

Uzi or sesq first?

i was saying that earlier tho

less than most games

you can be town and do scummy things an acknowledge you do scummy things and see why other people could look at those scummy things and see you as scum. there's probably some great countering towncase but i havent found it yet

o yea and as for who scum is, i don't know anymore

you've been saying this all game. You're approach is "keep pretending to be vague and ignorant, that looks town". Nope, by now town DO have reads and opinions (although they may be wrong).
Sesq is scum.

no, i'm not ignorant, i just haven't made a confident decision. i feel like associatives might be the way to go.

who has associations with others that could be legit? 3 scum left, right?

so uh, yeah. i'm good at planning but not execution i guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The only real reason you've given is meta which you're basing off of 1 game....

If people bother to look at that game it IS a powerful reason since you are playing so differently.
But the other main reason is - like Sesq- you consistently dont give out reads. You never look like you want to get anyone lynched.
You were both on the Hawk wagon yesterday which was LOL. He was never going to get lynched. Neither of you tried to get him lynched either.
Sesq and Uzi are def. scum.

nope, sometimes people just play differently for no reason.

i think i've played with uzi more than anyone else in this game and this feels like really normal meta for him.

we voted hawk because we thought he was scum. why do you think we were just emptyvoting? the fuck is this coming from?

Sesq, talk to me about Hawk's aggressiveness. Do you really believe it's scummy? If so, what do you think he's been hoping to gain? Have you considered a world where it's possible that this is just another side of him you're not familiar with?

it's not that aggressiveness = scum, its that being really meek = town!hawk.

even then, given some more recent games this could be wrong

also im not gonna meta-read someone while criticizing moz for doing the same thing.

in the end tho, i dont think i scumread moz. i think they might be really mislead by scum!hawk, or town!hawk. idk.

[Sesq]

and like... what has uzi actually done? he just sorta asserts hes been dishing out reads but i never seen it...

might vote him actually, not sure

[mozamis]

@ hawk - talk me through your town read of Uzi. I don't see it.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

UNVOTE:

Sesq is a hard read for me because she comes off very conceited and egotistical. It's hard to write her off as town for that with the amount of limited experience I have with her. I don't have any reasons to town read Creature but I don't see any compelling reasons for why he's scum. What is everyone on his wagon seeing there?

Dong doesn't strike me as a defeatist.

@Luca: I would like to lynch within Eddie, Prof. Hamm, and Revan. The first two don't seem like they have any chance of happening today. I'm not a fan of lynching a lurker and with Revan now v/LA until the deadline as Hawk pointed out, I also don't think he's happening today either sadly.

I didn't like your vote for Dong because of the first part of your reasoning for why you voted for him. I don't understand why you're concerned with him delivering town reads or making town statements. I know various players who prefer not to dish out town reads because they believe it serves no purpose. Personally, I find talking about town reads or giving out reads list help scum more than they do town. Our job is to find scum and we do that by figuring out who genuinely is trying to solve the game. Do you think Dong's scum hunting was genuine or not? That's all I felt was needed to determine if you thought he's town or scum there. The second part of the reasoning is subjective and a bit vague. What are town statements? I feel it's impossible for there to be examples of such statements because of varying different play styles and theories on mafia.

I found his reaction to your vote genuine because of how he put Mo/Panther to L-2 earlier. I don't agree with his assessment of you deciding to look elsewhere but I think it's understandable based on the reason you gave for moving your vote. You accused of him of only being focused on scum hunting but don't state any issues you find with his scum hunting.

The rest of the argument from then on out is just you accusing him of NAI tells and him explaining why he isn't doing said tells. Dong's explantations read straightforward to me and like he's really confused and frustrated about your reasons for scum reading him. I have written your argument with him as TvT.

Revan has a 11 posts and the only thing I've found damming was his question towards Creature. It feels like he has some sort of resemblance of a meta read on Luca but hasn't had the time to properly explain it.

Is Eddie still a possibility?

could be i guess. I've gone back and forth on him.
what happened to your sesq read btw?

I have her as null. She's in my not lynching today list.

Hey Uzi why are you scumreading Hamm?

Eddie and Dong I could both see happening today but I have higher priorities. (Creature and getting him actively involved) but I don't think that's going anywhere.

Pedit: Uzi give me who you're willing to lynch and who you'd to lynch and why they're scum

Would like to lynch today:
Eddie
Hamm
Revan

Unsure but will probably have to compromise:
Creature

Don't want to lynch today:
BBT
Luca
Moz
Panther
Sesq

Never lynching:
Dong
Hawk

--

I'm scum reading Eddie due to his opening posts and his entrance. I found his self-vote forced as well as his attempt to sort Revan early on. I don't follow how he's gotten such a strong scum read on Sesq based on her 23, especially after he called her a noob in 222. I feel like he knows better and is purposely not taking the time to reevaluate. He's just screaming that she's scum in hopes that something will stick and a wagon will take off. I feel if he was town he would take the time to not only consider that she has a bit of a different play style from the norm but is also not as skilled at the game as some of the players on this site are.

I'm scum reading Hamm because a lot of her votes lack any conviction, she's not really pushing or interacting with any of her scum reads, and overall, it seems like she doesn't care who gets lynched.

I'm scum reading Revan because of his assumption in 14. Read like he's informed, knows that Luca is town, and doesn't want Creature influencing how others read Luca.

Hey Uzi are you dismissing Eddie's potential derp clear PT comment? It honestly has been keeping me mildly thinking he's more town but if I ignore that comment his ISO looks a lot less town upon a relook.

Yeah. Slips are NAI for me.

I'm not misdirecting. I'm owning up to my vote on Revan. Taking responsibility for my actions.

I mean yeah but it felt like you gave in a bit too quickly there Uzi. You had wanted Eddie or someone else prior to that and even after posting it you had as little reasoning as the rest of us did aside from lurker lurker here's the lurker. I mean honestly Sesq you and BBT are all in that same boat.

Also I know it sounds like I'm focusing you a lot but it's not all that bad. BBT, is definitely scummy too for that hammer.

Like okay here let's go with this.

Why was Sesq in your not lynching d1 category? why was Dong in your never lynch with me? and why did you compromise so readily on Revan. We still had daylight left. Sesq was a counter wagon so was creature. If you really wanted Eddie why didn't you push forward a more robust case?

pedit: Please do BBT help me find your opposing scum faction.

Truth is guys town is in a bad place if we don't get a scum lynch today.

5v5 in terms for town anti town so we can't even lynch with all of us voting one person we still need one of the two factions votes.

Experience when it comes to Sesq. In my first ever game with her, she had a bit of an obvious newbie vibe that she played up a bit in order to get town read. She fooled nearly everybody. She was like a hooker who didn't put out after taking my money. I'm not seeing that level of manipulation here. I'm seeing the Sesq I think you know. Near Vanilla Sesq. 670 Sesq. Sassy, God like complex, and not taking shit cases from anyone. Nothing about her demeanor here makes me think she's faking her town game. Her responses to Eddie remind me of a lesser intense version of her arguments with nebula.

I'm never considering lynching Dong because I read a lot of what he's being scum read for as his personality rubbing people off the wrong way. I think he just naturally comes off as a guy who has no filter. Combine that with a general lack of understanding on our part, you get the lashing out you're seeing now due to the attack on his reads and beliefs about the game. He's just being misunderstood. I don't sense scum intent in his posts and I don't get the vibe of someone trying to look town.

I compromised on Revan because not only was he a scum read of mine, another scum read of mine in Hamm was pushing the opposing wagon hard. I felt more comfortable gambling on Revan with you and Moz on board.

Why would I push a more robust case? I'm not going to find and fabricate reasons as to why someone is scum. I'm going to push what is bothering me about a player and what I find scummy. I felt Eddie was purposely blowing things out of proportion when it came to Sesq to justify going after LHF.

Uzi what's your read on Lucca?

Im pretty townleaning on Lucca... You me Dong Sesq Lucca and Moz can't all be town. And even then that means scum is in creature Lucca.... okay okay I can buy that. Let me rethink this case but still give me reasons why I shouldn't townread lucca.

Town. Luca shows genuine belief in his cases and seems to be constantly thinking and reevaluating which means he's been actively gamesolvihg.

Dong
Luca
Hawk
Moz

Creature
Sesq
Panther

BBT
Hamm

--

I feel confindent that there is at least one scum in the nulls.

ok...was kinda checking if you understood who has kills and who doesn't

why could it have not been the case that the ww just thought that they were shooting mafia? so him being widely scumread might just correspond to the ww having a scumread. is this what you're saying? it kinda feels like you're saying the opposite - that someone who townread him killed him

clarify for me?

Well, that could be the case, but I don't think so. Dong played like obvious lynch bait. If a WW suspected he was mafia, I'm sure he or she would've made the effort to try to get him lynched today since it clearly would've not been such a daunting task given his play. He also had no one in his corner going into today other than me.

What I'm trying to say though is that he was easy to push on so wasting a kill on him was suboptimal. This led me to my original theory regarding the Frog meta read but that doesn't really check out here I think. Mainly because I think Creature is the only player here with more than a game or two with Frog. My experience with Creature as well Hamm's push on him makes me think the likelihood of him being the last wolf and making such a kill is very slim.

WW has to be Hawk or Sesq by PoE.

Actually can someone link me the Uzi scum case?

I don't think there is one. The only thing Moz has given that even resembles a case is that I feel different from another game I played with him. When I tried to reach out and talk to him about the first game we played together, I got crickets.

Hello! Can you refresh me on your Hawk read please

Yeah sure!

I scum read Hawk because based on his content from yesterday and earlier today, I feel he killed the Dong slot and is Hamm's partner.

Yeah sure!

I scum read Hawk because based on his content from yesterday and earlier today, I feel he killed the Dong slot and is Hamm's partner.

Forgive me because I'm on mobile and it's hard to go back and check these things.

How would the Dong kill imply Hawkwolf? What's the particular interaction(s) between hawk and Hamm that imply buddies?

His reasoning for why it happened felt like a combination of a guilty conscience and being informed. He said the kill was mostly like made to frame me. The problem however is that various players wanted to lynch me for my hard defending and read on Dong. If the last wolf wanted me gone, why wouldn't he or she just have kept Dong alive?

Why moz?

I haven't liked that he's purposely not engaging with me at times and the times he does engage with me or mention me, it is just a lot misrepresentation. I don't like his Creature push at all and the weird 180 he did on him just now feels really scummy.

Hawk is practically confirmed town for me. I didn't really have a reason to suspect him outside of the Dong / Hamm thing and his play hasn't really pinged me.

The last scum is probably between Chronicle, Dunn, and Panther.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I hate doing the above but it's really annoying to get extremely misrepresented like this. I've given out reads and explained. Now if the reasoning is weak or flawed, I am willing to talk about that but not something so blatantly untrue.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I wouldn't describe Hawk as meek. I'd say reasonable and level headed, which he has been of late.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

I'm pretty sure Moz and Sesq are scum pushing me for the win here.