Real Folk Blues Rematch [GAME OVER]

[Master Vampire]

Fact. YOUR scumhuntings is close to nonexistent.

Fact. YOUR read on me is terrible and not an actual push.

Fact. YOU are flat here.

Fact. YOU didn't support the Nero wagon.

Fact. YOU are just arguing semantics.

Fact. YOU have zero scumreads besides myself and Cerb.

scumhunting --> I've pointed out posts that I didn't like on pretty much every post

poor read on you --> that's cause you obviously don't agree

you are flat --> I don't even know what that means

didn't support nero --> I didn't go against it either. What's your point? There are plenty of people who didn't want nero dead, or voiced no opinion. Are they all scum?

just arguing semantics --> something the great and holy town!nos does so very often

no scumreads --> well if you took out all of my scumreads, yeah I'd have no scum reads. The fuck are you saying?

pedit: I guess I'm worthless town rn. I'M FUCKING TRYING HERE. THIS GAME ISN'T EASY FOR ME. I've spent so much time trying TO LIVE DOWN THAT FUCKING GAME. This must be the FOURTH FUCKING TIME SOME ONE HAS BROUGHT UP GAME SHOP MAFIA AND IM SICK OF IT.
THERE ARE 32 PEOPLE IN THIS GAME. THIRTY TWO. I DON'T KNOW IF THIS TRULY REGISTERS TO YOU AT THE MOMENT SINCE YOU'RE AN ACTIVE POSTER, but I A M N O T.

The only reason I could come up with scum reads in larges like game shop was because I LITERALLY HAD NO LIFE OR RESPONSIBILITIES WHATSOEVER. Game shop happened during a school break. I had massive amounts of time to dedicate to just reading the same shit over and over and over and over again until something finally happened.

I was in a large game not too long ago (modded by SirCakez iirc) and I didn't do shit for most of that game. GAME SHOP NOS IS NOT NORMAL NOS.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE YOU WANT FROM ME.

OUT OF THE PLAYERLIST, these are the people I have EVEN READ FUCKING POSTS FROM.
Cerebrus v666
Insomniacs (Narna+Mathblade)
Tywin Lannister
Socrates
Gamma Emerald
Nero Cain
Rb
Chairman doggo (Transcend + giga)
TheRealGin-N-Tonic
Siblings Quarrel (Fro99er and Alisae)
Wall
Scott and Ramona (Chickadee and LUV)
SlySly

That's not even sorted. This is literally a list of people I have read any post whatsoever from. It's literally 50% if even of the player base. Sorted to some degree looks like this:

Cerebrus v666

Tywin Lannister

Gamma Emerald

Chairman doggo

Siblings Quarrel

Wall
Scott and Ramona

SlySly

THIS IS LITERALLY ALL THIS GAME IS TO ME RIGHT NOW. THIS IS ALL I CAN POSSIBLY PROVIDE TO

ANYONE

.

8 fucking people out of 32. That's it. idk if you can comprehend the scope of that, but that's it. I'm honestly just waiting for the night to come, so I can actually provide fucking any worth to this game rn. I'm sorry if that doesn't seem like trying, but it's all I can provide. If that's not enough for you, well then I don't even know what to do.

[Master Vampire]

And see how gamma isn't coloured?

THAT ISN'T A MISTAKE

I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I THINK HE IS ANY MORE

[Siblings Quarrel]

UNVOTE:

[Siblings Quarrel]

So you think we bussed Nero, or if multiball we're on a different team?

You think the semi-clear we have from Titus is made up?

You think we're scum because why again? Because I said Scott was way too aware of hydra dissonance? It's true. He was far too self-aware. That can be a scumtell.

So, again. Why are you scumreading us?

Why are you so upset about Game Shop? I thought you were great there. I stopped reading it after I died, because I site flaked. I never criticized you about Game Shop. Not once. In fact, that's probably what set the high bar for me, is that you WERE good there while I was alive. You WERE good in Delicious 2. I've seen you be very good as town.


-Ribbit

[Firebringer]

Vote Count 1.14

SlySly (L-5): Socrates, Titus, Master Vampire, Not Fury, RachMarie, Scott and Ramona, rb, Ramcius, Gamma Emerald, Cerberus v666, Randomidget
Master Vampire (L-13): mhsmith0, Chairman Doggo, Not Chara,


Not Voting (18): Shiro, Majiffy, ZZZX, Kidamn, RachMarie, Davesaz, MariaR, Wall, Almost50, Tarkus, Hiraki, PeregrineV, Tywin Lannister, TheRealGin-N-Tonics, Carnelian, SlySly, Insomniacs, Siblings Quarrel

With 31 players alive it takes 16 votes to lynch.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2017-05-18 21:10:00)

Note: Majiffy has requested replacement
Kidamn has requested replacement
Tarkus has requested replacement
ZZX is on V/LA.

[Siblings Quarrel]

That was probably the most honest post I've seen this game.

I'm going to talk to Ali

-Ribbit

[Siblings Quarrel]

VOTE: Sly

we no longer support an MV wagon

-Ribbit

[Master Vampire]

So you think we bussed Nero, or if multiball we're on a different team?

You think the semi-clear we have from Titus is made up?

You think we're scum because why again? Because I said Scott was way too aware of hydra dissonance? It's true. He was far too self-aware. That can be a scumtell.

So, again. Why are you scumreading us?

Why are you so upset about Game Shop? I thought you were great there. I stopped reading it after I died, because I site flaked. I never criticized you about Game Shop. Not once. In fact, that's probably what set the high bar for me, is that you WERE good there while I was alive. You WERE good in Delicious 2. I've seen you be very good as town.

1. I'm still trying to figure out any associations my scumreads may have. I've been more concerned with my lack of scumreads than any associations they may have.
2. I honestly have not seen any semi-clear stuff from titus and I'm going to have to look for that
3. I thought some posts by Ali seemed really awkward and I didn't like how you jumped onto scott for hydra dissonance when it didn't even seem like he was that self-aware for me, nor do I think awareness of hydra dissonance is an AI tell on its own. To make a short story even shorter, I found problems with both heads, thus the scum read.
4. Game shop for me represents a peak for me. Even irl I feel like people treat me like how I was a long time ago and the feeling of being compared to myself and being inferior really upsets me.

[Master Vampire]

Fact. YOUR scumhuntings is close to nonexistent.

Fact. YOUR read on me is terrible and not an actual push.

Fact. YOU are flat here.

Fact. YOU didn't support the Nero wagon.

Fact. YOU are just arguing semantics.

Fact. YOU have zero scumreads besides myself and Cerb.

Looking at the wagon on us, Siblings is primarily responsible for pushing. However, I have looked through the ISO and found nothing other than a meta tell on Nosferatu. How strong can a meta tell be? For it to be justifiably that strong, it has to be something that happens pretty much all the time as one alignment and pretty much never as the other, and even then people can change their meta so ultimately it is not reliable and should not form the basis of an entire read, particularly a strong one, and I see practically no other reasons from Siblings.

We have clearly scumhunted. You cannot dismiss everything as "close to nonexistent". Of course, you are coming from your own biased perspective, in which our read on you is wrong. All I can see about your reasoning based on supposed "flatness" is mainly meta, which is already unreliable. I am not sure what sort of point you are trying to make about Nero, but it is obvious that Town can just as easily be off that wagon as on it and, just as easily, scum could bus or other scum could be on the wagon. Townies do not need to form 100% accurate scumreads. If you scumread people for being wrong or not having strong opinions, you will scumread every Townie practically all of the time. We are "just arguing semantics" if you discard our scumhunting posts, and we have "zero scumreads" besides our actual scumreads. Nos already covered most of this. You are extremely confbiased at best, and have a whole load of statements ranging from misleading to outright lies masquerading as "facts".

Siblings, if you have any real reasons for pushing us, state them.

BTD

[Not Chara]

UNVOTE:
will revote after VC. i don't think Vampire is scum.

[Siblings Quarrel]

Siblings, if you have any real reasons for pushing us, state them.

They're in my ISO.

Nos's push on us for pushing Scott/Ramona was terrible. Even you yourself had to refute his own push.

His push on Cerb amounts to something that isn't alignment indicative. He's said he'd support a sly wagon but hasn't actually pushed sly.

It's the lack of scumhunting IN THIS GAME that was a problem.

It was the lack of emotion, or seeing to care-ness. Those are feelings I get in this game.

Combine that with my meta read of him, where I know what he's capable of as town (being really good), and it added up.


i'm a HEAVILY based meta player. So A LOT of what I'm going to push is based off what I know of the player, because I think eventually if they are town, I'll be able to see it. I honestly think Nosferatu's emotions in that most recent wall are not faked. They are real emotions. That's not a wall he can fake.

I get into a shit ton of TvTs as town, because that's my playstyle. If you're not someone I can recognize as town, when I feel I should be able to recognize you as town -- I'll push you, and push you hard (there are exceptions to this rule that I don't want to talk about, but safe to say it doesn't apply here).


So go ahead and criticize me for a meta-based push. That's FAR from out of the ordinary for me


-Ribbit

[Titus]

@MV, provided SQ is actually Faye Valentine, they are conftown. Hi. You wouldn't happen to be a dog would you?

VOTE: Sly

[Master Vampire]

@MV, provided SQ is actually Faye Valentine, they are conftown. Hi. You wouldn't happen to be a dog would you?

VOTE: Sly

Unfortunately I am not. Didn't rb also claim valentine as well? Or did he take that back at some point.
~nos

[Hiraki]

Need to look into:
-Gamma (mostly waiting for his post)
-Not Chara
-Tywin
-Nero
-Kidamn
-Titus
-Slysly

Hate Gamma's newest post as noted but I've been sort of reading and I guess he's OK based off of flavor and claim?

Unvote

Not Chara - lean scum but it's not anything that I think is convincing or worth pursuing, if someone really wants me to expand, i can do, i guess

Tywin -

You post way too much while saying nothing, are too excited to be town by any measure (nobody ever gets excited to be town), aren't worried about being lynched apparently (suggesting a large scum team backing you up), and you've vote flopped constantly on anyone else who gains one. Idk everyone you've voted for, but you've pushed Alisae, ram, rach, who else? I don't wanna waste my time with an ISO, but the vote flipping means you don't actually SR anyone.

Nothing in here is really true.

This guy is town. I can't keep up with this game right now, and I think scum would prefer it that way.

Again, not really true.

What a bunch of whiners. If the complainers are the ones with only one or two posts, all being useless, they can fuck off and replace. Nobody knows they even exist so its not a loss.

OK - I'm good here. Tywin gets my VI read.

Nero is dead - hopefully. Skip!

Kidamn: As I recall, I liked Kidamn's early D1 posting, especially against Doggo - however I have problems with his play where he's always on the defensive. His current vote is also bad too. Null - not interested in focusing on today.

Titus: Gonna TR.

Slysly: No reason to SR or TR. Null.

[Wall]

___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__
_|___|I'm pretty sure shooting|___|
___|___|someone universally |___|__
_|___|scumread would be more |___|___|
___|___|___|optimal?|___|___|___|__
_|___|In terms of gamestate?|___|___|
___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__

No. We lynch the universal scum read and force scum to clear doggo/limit their ability to attack him if fhey want to get rid of the vig, or eless we keep a vig around that can shoot every night.

___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__
_|___|Hi Cerb. I was just perusing|___|
___|___|the last Bebop game and I|___|__
_|___|couldn't help but notice you|___|
___|___|saying that you thought|___|__
_|___|that dayvigs should be used|___|
___|___|as a second lynch there?|___|__
_|___|How very very curious. o:|___|___|
___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__

Good night Math!

I wish I were a dayvig. I've never been one.

We should really just use them all D1 in the manner I described for Kraska.

Give town 6 vote controlled flips before the first night.

Sounds pretty awesome imo.

Cuz he's my homie yo.

Besides, you should do what I said for reals. Convert day vigs into lynches. Maximize town informaton D1.

[Cerberus v666]

Different situation entirely Wall. In this game someone had just claimed to be unkillable by someone in their own faction, therefore making shooting them a higher EV play than the normal play of using it as a second lynch.

The point of the line proposed in that game was to maximize town information. Converting the vig into a parity cop is, imo, strictly stronger than shooting someone. It delays the immediate information in exchange for 1)backing scum into a bit of a mechanical corner and 2)allowing a single pure cop action/flip to ccreate additional conftowns. Once it was stated that said factional BP was fake thiugh, I simply wanted the slot to die because, as I said, stupid town deserve to die.

Nice try though.

[Wall]

___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__
_|___|Not really sure I buy it.|___|
___|___|The way you approached|___|__
_|___|the day vig this game seems|___|
___|___|completely different. Even|___|__
_|___|accounting for the slight diff|___|
___|___|in situation. Reads way more|___|__
_|___|opportunistic vs "I'm trying to|___|
___|___|figure things out right now"|___|__
_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|

[mhsmith0]

Different situation entirely Wall. In this game someone had just claimed to be unkillable by someone in their own faction, therefore making shooting them a higher EV play than the normal play of using it as a second lynch.

The point of the line proposed in that game was to maximize town information. Converting the vig into a parity cop is, imo, strictly stronger than shooting someone. It delays the immediate information in exchange for 1)backing scum into a bit of a mechanical corner and 2)allowing a single pure cop action/flip to ccreate additional conftowns. Once it was stated that said factional BP was fake thiugh, I simply wanted the slot to die because, as I said, stupid town deserve to die.

Nice try though.

Walk me through what exactly is more optimal about it? I can see how it might be +EV in the event that doggo was scum (exposing a lie for someone who I believe most had townread is pretty useful in opening up the game state), but what is the meaningful benefit in terms of creating an additional conftown in that game spot?

Like, the benefit of killing a universal scum read while the gameday marches on seems really obvious; it immediately casts light on whether the wagon was correct and creates additional information in terms of a confirmed flip of someone a lot of people had a position on, before scum can do anything at night. Essentially having a double day on d1 seems like a massive advantage in terms of gaining tempo, adding information and having town-controlled kill power; what meaningful benefit does confirming someone as town, when scum will then just shoot them anyway sooner or later, gain us compared to the above?

I mean, I can somewhat understand a "fuck you" push in terms of personal satisfaction and irritation, but you're representing it as if it was, not just something that you wanted for your own satisfaction and/or for your own personal confirmation, but as if it was actually optimal? I'm with Wall here in that this seems weird to me.

[mhsmith0]

That was probably the most honest post I've seen this game.

I'm going to talk to Ali

-Ribbit

It's honest, but I'm not sure it's AI honest. Like, does scum!nos basically have that kind of frustration over getting wagoned here? I don't know her well enough to know for sure, but that seems at least plausible to me.

But if Nos is promising to be useful D2, I guess I'm fine holding the slot to that promise and figuring out some other option.
UNVOTE:

PS I'm fine with the sly wagon, but at the least there should be a decent counter with a bunch of scum across at least two factions

PPS

VC WILL GET HERE IN A HOUR

lololololololoolol

[mhsmith0]

_|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|
___|___|Hi Nos, who is scum |___|__
_|___|___|that isn't SlySly?|___|___|
___|___|___|___|___|___|___|___|__

I was thinking gamma but that nero flip makes me uncertain of that.
SQ is still a scumspect of mine along with Cerb, but that's about it off the top of my head.
~nos

Y'all do know Titus has semi-cleared SQ right?

- Scott

preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip preflip

Titus making a hard claim of a flavor clear on SQ is the sort of thing which is just mechanically very likely ot be true, ESPECIALLY in mulitball (which if Titus was scum she'd probably know to be the case just from faction size). So it's not really "preflip" in anything like the typical usage, so I don't really have a problem with this point (other than it being a really easy point to make) and don't understand why you would.

[Cerberus v666]

Alright, I'll walk you both through this.

If a day vig is used on a universal scum read on D1 we get a flip, and we can use that information to analyze the wagons that formed to hopefully inform our next lynch. Ideally, it will be a scum flip, but a town flip is still useful, IF the slots in question have actually had a good deal of discussion and interaction around them. That's generally the optimal path to take, at least as opposed to the option of letting the vig just shoot whoever they want at some random point in the game.

Now, in the scenario we were presented with, a shot at Doggo(were that initial claim actually an honest one, blah blah), has three possibilities.

1) The shot works, kills scum, yay.
2) The shot works, kills town(who flips with the claimed immunity) and we lynch Gamma, who is confirmed as not town.
3) The shot fails.
(There is also a distant 4th scenario where they flip as third party, in which case it functions as the town flip would, without the benefit of confirming gamma isn't town.)

It is the third scenario which is both most likely and most concerning, but still quite beneficial. Scum would normally be happy to kill off a vig, but this places them in a spot where performing the kill that makes the most sense still results in a benefit to town, that is, we receive confirmation of Doggo's alignment. It's also possible that scum, if they have a roleblocker(which they almost certainly do) would simply block Gamma every night and not kill him, but that provides it's own benefits. If scum don't kill the vig(or Doggo) then yes, we don't get that confirmation, but we do have a town vig sitting around and taking shots on our behalf every night. Swingy, yes, but also potentially game winning in and of itself.

The primary drawback of the above scenario, besides the opportunity cost of a more informed lynch on D1(which I was valuing lower than normal given the games apparent desire to simply end the day sooner rather than later, which left me with little cause to believe such extra information would actually be analyzed enough to be useful), were the risks of a pure BP on the part of Doggo(as scum), or the pair of them as scum together. That was a risk which I believed to be marginal by virtue of the simple fact of Gamma's claim. Mechanically, the role itself did nothing to change his likely alignment, but the fact that the claim was made at all made it very unlikely that Gamma was part of any set of groupscum. The BP Doggo situation WAS still a potential risk, but I was planning to simply lie detect the claim they made/force them to make a more precise one to deal with that threat.

I won't deny that it's POSSIBLE that I simply saw the opportunity for a cooler play than the standard one and overvalued it's relative merit simply because it was unconventional, but I do maintain that the two lines were, at the very least, equally effective ones.

[rb]

Stop prolonging the day and vote Sly you potatoes

[Gamma Emerald]

@Cerberus I love you not including "chairman doggo NOT having the immunity" possibility.

[Titus]

@Cerberus I love you not including "chairman doggo NOT having the immunity" possibility.

We know he's a scumbutt, but one scum at a time. Perhaps you can handle that and leave my almost masonry to deal with other problems?

I do love Cerb, but I don't have an effective leash around his neck like I did in Steven Universe 2.

I'm pretty sure that I'm likely to be dead anyway, unless scum fear the possibility of five random conftown they'd create by shooting me. I don't really pose much of a threat otherwise, particularly with the debates Math may be having with SQ later if all goes according to plan. Well, we'll see on that. I'm getting ahead of myself.

[Siblings Quarrel]

particularly with the debates Math may be having with SQ later if all goes according to plan.

Am I allowed to ask what this is, or do I have to wait like a good little Alisae to find out?
-Ali